RFCEurope 1.4

[Swarbs]

Obviously no

But I wanted to share a result of AI willingness to attack indies:
View attachment 408765

View attachment 408766
Its on the same turn, spain dead for a while ago.

Second one of those doesn't look too bad - Cordoba should be able to conquer Iberia if they overpower Spain and Aragon.

Although I have noticed that Cordoba is quite OP in the most recent version. Not only do they often beat Spain, Aragon and Portugal back, but they often vassalise one or more of them and thus gain a massive advantage over the other two.

I think the AI needs significant penalties to limit the tendency for vassalisation to civs of another religion. Also possibly some way for the AI to break vassalisation on the outbreak of war, such as in TW, if they think they can use the war to their advantage.

 

[Swarbs]

I've also noticed a bizarre bug with mercenaries - if you select on a mercenary without recruiting them, then close and repoen the mercenary hiring screen, they become much more expensive. The more you click, the more expensive they get - on my Byzantine game attached I've got a Tagmata as high as 200,000 to recruit and 7,000 maintenance!

 

[AbsintheRed]

I've also noticed a bizarre bug with mercenaries - if you select on a mercenary without recruiting them, then close and repoen the mercenary hiring screen, they become much more expensive. The more you click, the more expensive they get - on my Byzantine game attached I've got a Tagmata as high as 200,000 to recruit and 7,000 maintenance!

Yeah, I also noticed that a couple days ago.
It can appear when a civ has some merc modifiers (so Genoa, Byzantium, etc), probably caused by the new handling of data in the StoredData.py.
Anyway, it's already fixed - along with a couple other nice fixes for mercenaries.

 

[AbsintheRed]

A litte more feedback.

Kiev is in a similar predicament to france (before French catholization) for Kiev spawns its capitol with orthodoxy yet its civics with despotism, tribal law, tribalism, decentralization, paganism, subjugation and no state religion.

Likewise the Danes start with the same (basic starting) civics, but they already have better civics available at the start.

I find the Kievan start good enough - both historically and for gameplay

England is a bit more serious case.
When I hold London (and York) before the flip and I let them flip peacefully they start with no techs whatsoever and only the units they received from the cityflip.

I've just seen the same thing in a Polish game - captured Twangste and when it flipped to the Prussians they started with no techs.

Could be something to do with an existing city being destroyed on spawn - London and Konigsberg are both removed by the spawn and have to be refounded with a settler IIRC.

Yeah, I'm also pretty sure it's an issue in the spawn mechanics, connected to the removal of cities on the spawn tile.
Will look into that too. It only appears if the human player holds the city?

Second one of those doesn't look too bad - Cordoba should be able to conquer Iberia if they overpower Spain and Aragon.

Although I have noticed that Cordoba is quite OP in the most recent version. Not only do they often beat Spain, Aragon and Portugal back, but they often vassalise one or more of them and thus gain a massive advantage over the other two.

I agree, Cordoba could use a nerf.

I think the AI needs significant penalties to limit the tendency for vassalisation to civs of another religion. Also possibly some way for the AI to break vassalisation on the outbreak of war, such as in TW, if they think they can use the war to their advantage.

Yeah, that mechanics could also use an overhaul.
Vassalage is very important to the era, should be way more dynamic.

 

[Force44]

Yeah, I'm also pretty sure it's an issue in the spawn mechanics, connected to the removal of cities on the spawn tile.
Will look into that too. It only appears if the human player holds the city?

Afaik yes.

 

[Force44]

Small update on the ultimate poverty bug (yes, I coined the bug from the post above this one)

It happens also if you raze the city and rebuild the city on the spot or a spot next to the razed city.
(I can provide a savegame, but I don't think it would ad much to the solution)

 

[Force44]

(some more feedback)

Arabia serves two masters.

Both Hungary and France are masters of (vassal) Arabia.
It strikes me as a tad odd. Is it intentional?

(bit off-topic under spoiler)

Spoiler :

On a sidenote, I have been declaring war on whoever France is at war with asap. And I am in serious doubt I will gather enough Alliance points before the deadline. Did anyone manage to complete the second UHV-goal of Schotland yet?)

 

[Swarbs]

I've done the Scottish UHV. I don't think the victory points calculation has been changed since:

Attitude: -2 for Furious, -1 for Annoyed, 0 for Cautious, 1 for Pleased, 2 for Friendly
OB: +1
Def. Pact: +2
Traded resources: (Num Export + Num Import) / 3
Common war: +2
War with France: -10
Different state religion: -3

So the key is to trade lots and lots of resources. I traded and gifted them about 10 resources over the course of the game, even strategic ones like stone once I had built the castles. Also beeline military tradition asap for a defensive pact - gets you a few more points which will push you over the amount needed.

 

[Force44]

Was there some luck involved in your game? I did not trade everything I could but still end up about 500 points short. I figured the beeline towards military tradition was what prevented me from reaching the required amount. (Use the money to try to bribe the French to keep them at war with more civs. I counted on the English to be an eternal enemy but they just got vassalized (Arabia same story).)

 

[merijn_v1]

From my experience with the Scottish (although my last game as them is quite some time ago), the trick is common wars. My luck was that France was a powerhouse and didn't mind having war with 7-9 civs at the same time. No one dared to attack France and I wasn't being attacked by being on an island.

 

[AbsintheRed]

(some more feedback)

Arabia serves two masters.

Both Hungary and France are masters of (vassal) Arabia.
It strikes me as a tad odd. Is it intentional?

(bit off-topic under spoiler)

Spoiler :

On a sidenote, I have been declaring war on whoever France is at war with asap. And I am in serious doubt I will gather enough Alliance points before the deadline. Did anyone manage to complete the second UHV-goal of Schotland yet?)

Which version?

 

[Force44]

edit: Last changed revision 1221 _____________Maandag 13 juni 2016 (<-Monday the thirteenth of June 2016)
(I found this information under the tab subversion under the tab properties under the directory/map RFCEurope.)

(Original message went under the spoiler)

Spoiler :

Here comes the tricky part. It was the version just before the version that incited me posting this message. (on the sixteenth of June)

question: Are savegames compatible with the previous SVN version compatible with the latest SVN version?

request: If an SVN version breaks compatability for savegames from a previous SVN version do you/will you/could you note that in the SVN Changelog-thread?

 

[Swarbs]

Was there some luck involved in your game? I did not trade everything I could but still end up about 500 points short. I figured the beeline towards military tradition was what prevented me from reaching the required amount. (Use the money to try to bribe the French to keep them at war with more civs. I counted on the English to be an eternal enemy but they just got vassalized (Arabia same story).)

I think you do need a bit of luck, but mainly plenty of warmongering and colonisation.

If you can't bribe France to go to war with other civs, bribe other civs to go to war with France. Then DOW on those same civs for an extra 2 points per turn.

I also shipped a lot of units to the continent and used them selectively to defend France against attack, whilst not actually attacking anyone. So France would never become weak enough to collapse, but I also wouldn't give them much help conquering and vassalising other civs.

IIRC I let Germany take one of the French cities early on, then recaptured and liberated it to get friendly with France which was an extra point per turn for quite a while. When the bonus wore off, I did it again.

Also I shipped a settler and missionary to the Canaries early on, and traded the banana and sugar to France which was worth another point a turn. I think I also grabbed another couple of African cities which had resources I could gift (olives and crab?). Also try and spread a corporation to France if you have the relevant resources, as you can then gift more than one of those. It all adds up!

If you play Scotland smart, you can be strong enough to keep England largely contained by the time they spawn and then invest time and effort in picking up overseas resources to trade, as well as keeping other civs divided through wars. Ironically enough, you end up doing to the English what the English did to the Scots for most of that period!

 

[Force44]

That's pretty smart. Getting france a corporation so you can gift them additional resources.

I didn't think of that yet. Thanks for the tip.

Stability (and tech) will become a pain though, maintaining all those cities in unstable areas for the resources. Any tips for those problems?
(I noticed in your reports that you tend to pick strategies with suboptional (bonus)stability. So stability mustn't be much of an issue with your playstyle.)

 

[Force44]

Just a couple of things I noted completing the UHV of Hungary.

There appears to be a cap on the amount of religionpoints you can acquire of 100. Is this correct?
(if so, perhaps it should be mentioned in the the civpedia)

What happens if you surpass it? (additional stability?)

As a orthodox civilization I did not found protestantism on researching printingpress (first).

The UHV says be the biggest in 490AD, but I actually got to play turn 491AD.

I do not think my game was representative for Hungary (I did quite a lot of preplay with Bulgaria) but my biggest challenge was the dilemma between building lots of cities or only a few. I initially chose to build lots but (on Emperor) my tech got slowed down so much that I decided to keep the amount of cities lower than originally intended. What happened to be a Lucky decision because less cities means less points to defend against the Mongols.

The vegvars are really really good.

The Ottomans only declared war after I completed the UHV-europe part.

I found the final part of the game interesting. The DoW upong receiving a golden age forced me to either fight a two front war or make an unfavorable peace. On the downside, great artists>>cities for amount of land controlled. The final cities I founded were planned to be defensive strongholds, but upon their founding they were already way behind the frontlines.

As a final suggestion. Perhaps a custom soundtrack upon victory? It was a good game and a song like the Hungarian national Anthem would bring a good sense of closure.

 

[Swarbs]

There appears to be a cap on the amount of religionpoints you can acquire of 100. Is this correct?
(if so, perhaps it should be mentioned in the the civpedia)

What happens if you surpass it? (additional stability?)

You can't get more than 100 faith points, bonuses are capped at that level (you can see your current bonus on the religion screen)

As a orthodox civilization I did not found protestantism on researching printingpress (first).

Pretty sure you have to be Catholic to found Protestantism, as IRL.

The UHV says be the biggest in 490AD, but I actually got to play turn 491AD.

I think the UHV check triggers at the end of the turn - gives you time to pop GAs or capture more cities if you are close to the limit.

I do not think my game was representative for Hungary (I did quite a lot of preplay with Bulgaria) but my biggest challenge was the dilemma between building lots of cities or only a few. I initially chose to build lots but (on Emperor) my tech got slowed down so much that I decided to keep the amount of cities lower than originally intended. What happened to be a Lucky decision because less cities means less points to defend against the Mongols.

That is the big challenge playing as big civs - you have to balance the escalating tech costs with the need to grow. Particularly for Hungary where you need to grow for the 2nd UHV but tech for the 3rd.

I found the final part of the game interesting. The DoW upong receiving a golden age forced me to either fight a two front war or make an unfavorable peace.

I like this too, although often I have found that the DoW comes from civs which are nowhere near you (as Novgorod I got DoWs from France and Arabia!) so it definitely varies according to the civ and the conditions in the game.

As a final suggestion. Perhaps a custom soundtrack upon victory? It was a good game and a song like the Hungarian national Anthem would bring a good sense of closure.

I like that idea, provided it's not too difficult and time consuming to code

 

[Swarbs]

I think the barbarian Teutonic Knights that appear in Livonia around 1200AD need to be toned down. In both my Novgorod games thus far they have razed Riga, making it much easier to complete the UHV and crippling the Prussians on spawn.

 

[merijn_v1]

Just a couple of things I noted completing the UHV of Hungary.

There appears to be a cap on the amount of religionpoints you can acquire of 100. Is this correct?
(if so, perhaps it should be mentioned in the the civpedia)

What happens if you surpass it? (additional stability?)

I can't find a cap in the python.

As a orthodox civilization I did not found protestantism on researching printingpress (first).

The first catholic civ that discovers printing press triggers the reformation.

The UHV says be the biggest in 1490AD, but I actually got to play turn 1491AD.

There are many cases which have this effect. Most UHV dates are rounded to 10 years. But as we have 4/3/2 years per turn, so we can't have all years rounded to the nearest 10. The date is the closest date we can have near the shown date.

As a final suggestion. Perhaps a custom soundtrack upon victory? It was a good game and a song like the Hungarian national Anthem would bring a good sense of closure.

I don't know if an unique song for each civ is doable, but a custom winning tune like SoI would be nice indeed. (I really like this SoI easter egg)

BTW, national anthems would come ahistorically early. The Dutch Wilhelmus is the oldest anthem in the world and that one appeared around 1568. Other national anthems didn't exist yet when you win the game.

 

[AbsintheRed]

@Force44: Swarbs answered everything right.
A little more detail:

You can't get more than 100 faith points, bonuses are capped at that level (you can see your current bonus on the religion screen)

The faith point counter in the background can have more, but you don't get any further bonuses after 100.
So it's displayed this way, to avoid confusion.

Pretty sure you have to be Catholic to found Protestantism, as IRL.

Yep. I think this one is obvious.

I think the UHV check triggers at the end of the turn - gives you time to pop GAs or capture more cities if you are close to the limit.

Indeed, the UHV checks trigger on the end of the turn.
I might tweak a couple UHVs 1 turn back, maybe it's more intuitive to have the actual deadline on the beginning of 1491 not 1494.

I like this too, although often I have found that the DoW comes from civs which are nowhere near you (as Novgorod I got DoWs from France and Arabia!) so it definitely varies according to the civ and the conditions in the game.

Agreed in this one too. I plan to add further mechanics for choosing civs closer to you.
Currently it only takes strength of the civs into account.

I like that idea, provided it's not too difficult and time consuming to code

A general victory soundtrack would be great, if we find something fitting for the mod.
Awaiting for suggestion in the music thread.
Civ-specific soundtrack might be possible, didn't look into it.
But that would mean at leat +100mb of data to the mod, so I'm not even sure if it's something we should have.

I think the barbarian Teutonic Knights that appear in Livonia around 1200AD need to be toned down. In both my Novgorod games thus far they have razed Riga, making it much easier to complete the UHV and crippling the Prussians on spawn.

Noted, will look into it.

 

[LAF1994]

Stability seems to be broken; playing as Arabia I had my stab hit collapsing for no apparent reason within ~20 turns (I'd taken Antioch, Edessa and Alexandria).
Related- can you please get rid of random city seccessions? It's incredibly unrealistic.