Rhye's and Fall RAND: Preview #2

[dc82]

So here are some American ones that I can come up with off the top of my head. I chose them for historical importance, population, and I additionally tried to be geographically diverse.

3 non-coastal cities in another continent:
Juneau (alaska) 1881

4 coastal cities in another continent:
These are drawn for current and past American territories, as well as Hawaii and Alaska:
San Juan (Puerto Rico): ca 1501
Havana (Cuba) ca 1515
Manila (Philippines) ca 1574***
Charlotte Amalie (U.S. Virgin Islands): ca 1657**** (Saint Thomas is the name of the island, and perhaps a better name)
Guam ca 1668***
American Samoa: ca 1830s
Honolulu: ca 1898 (Hawaii was annexed as a territory in 1898, although was arguably influenced/claimed by America earlier).
Anchorage: ca 1914

With America - would "other continent" refer to Old World continent?

Maybe just generic US city names can work for off-continent city names (if the U.S. were to ever colonize new lands). e.g. Springfield, Franklin, Madison, Fairview, Midway, Jackson, Centerville, etc. [wiki - most common u.s. place names]

 

[Lokolus]

I think that Monrovia should be added to America's 4th list, It's the capital of Liberia.

 

[AnotherPacifist]

@dc82

I agree with Verily completely. Hong Kong was irrelevant until the late 1800's, then blossoms after WWII and has since maintained its position. If anything, I think it will probably be eclipsed by Shanghai and other Chinese ports in the next 10-20 years.

If you've ever read James Clavell's Taipan, you would understand the contempt the English had for Hong Kong in 1841. To quote wikipedia:

The novel begins following the British victory of the first Opium War and the seizure of Hong Kong. Although the island is largely uninhabited and the terrain unfriendly, it has a large natural harbour that both the British government and various trading companies believe will be useful for the import of merchandise to be traded on mainland China, a highly lucrative market.

Then if you go to his other novel, Noble House (set in 1963), the difference is substantial. Hong Kong becomes this colorful (almost nightmarishly) hubbub of international activity, with bankers, spies, millionaires, British and Chinese all with their own agendas.

 

[The Turk]

on the contrary Hong Kong is expanded FAST with the equstrian games held their (olympics) and the worlds tallest hotel Hong Kong is definatley blooming, its only real competition is between Macau and Hong Kong which are both allowed a lot of economic freedom (more than the mainland recieves)

 

[dc82]

@dc82
I agree with Verily completely. Hong Kong was irrelevant until the late 1800's, then blossoms after WWII and has since maintained its position. If anything, I think it will probably be eclipsed by Shanghai and other Chinese ports in the next 10-20 years.

It's funny - because of the threat of Shanghai rising as China's #1 city, Hong Kong is developing several plans on how to remain the top city in China, with one idea of actually combining with the city of Shenzhen.

I agree the British were pivotal in increasing the value of Hong Kong; but I still firmly believe that the city is still much closer to being considered a Chinese city over a British city. And again, I think keeping it Chinese (with all the other stuff) mirrors its actual history closer as well.

 

[kbk]

With America - would "other continent" refer to Old World continent?

Maybe just generic US city names can work for off-continent city names (if the U.S. were to ever colonize new lands). e.g. Springfield, Franklin, Madison, Fairview, Midway, Jackson, Centerville, etc. [wiki - most common u.s. place names]

I took "other continent" to mean cities that were not on the lower 48 states for America. This left Alaska, Hawaii, and a few territories and a colony or two.

More specifically, the names were taken from:
Liberia
Alaska and Hawaii
A host of islands acquired in the Spanish-American war (including Cuba and the Philippines)
Current American territories (Virgin Islands, Peurto Rico, Saipan, American Samoa)

Most of these lands were later liberated (Philippines) , or rebelled (Cuba), but you also have Hawaii becoming a state. I think the list kept the flavor of off-shore colonies that you would not get from generic "small town" names.

Many of these were changed prior to the final city lists for the first version of RAND, I encourage you to check the city lists on the wiki.

 

[lumpthing]

Incidently, I don't think Liberia is actually represented on the American list. What do people think about adding its capitol Monrovia to the coastal colony list?

It's a good idea since it was actually founded by Americans rather than being conquered by Americans.

 

[The Turk]

I don't like the idea, because yes it was an american idea to make liberia (for free slaves) but it was never really part of america and had its own goverment, if anything it could be part of mali or the zulu's but or else their's no point

 

[lumpthing]

The point is to beef up America's overseas city list

 

[kbk]

I don't like the idea, because yes it was an american idea to make liberia (for free slaves) but it was never really part of america and had its own goverment, if anything it could be part of mali or the zulu's but or else their's no point

Darn, I had edited out that bit, you guys still caught it before the edit. If they're not in the current implementation, they are in the wiki list, so we'll probably see Freetown and Monrovia soon.

Liberia did declare independence from the U.S. (although uneventfully), so I see no problem allowing them on the list of American colonies. Mali doesn't need more cities added to their core lists right now.

 

[onedreamer]

Again, these cities aren't new - they existed since ancient history

A lot of cities weren't founded on nothing but grew on existing settlements. Take the persians, they practically founded none of the cities in their city list. The questions you should ask yourself are:
- do we lack cities to put in the chinese city list ?
- do we really need to put european colonial cities in the chinese city list in order to have a long enough chinese city list ?

 

[onedreamer]

Revised egyptian city list

 

[The Turk]

The two cities in lebanon shoulden't be their expecially Byblos if anything they should go under Arabia or Carthage but definetly not under Egypt

 

[onedreamer]

are you kidding, Byblos ARABIAN but not egyptian ? Read up about Byblos, it was a main trading post and an ally to Egyptians. It's like saying that Hong Kong shouldn't be British. Sure, it can be chinese as well, but in this case we don't have in game a suitable civ for Byblos. Remember that Byblos' golden age was an age of City States, not of empires, and Byblos was an independent city. Also, some even say that Byblos was actually founded by egyptians. Now that independent cities are in the game, it could be one to spawn near Egypt. In my first test game with 1.10 I had Jerusalem be born 2 tiles away from Thebes and Tyre 4 tiles away (2 from Jerusalem).
About the other city in Lebanon, I don't know anything about it, it is already in the list.