Rhye's and Fall RAND: Preview #2

[Sovetskysoyuz]

Not sure if this might have been pointed out already, but in the French lists, Montréal should be a coastal city... it's the second-busiest port in Canada, and was the hub of the lumber trade for most of its history.

 

[lumpthing]

I listed the coastal overseas cities which are prominent today. I figured that this was more relevant in a randomly generated map than geographic coverage of the real world - which isn't exactly relevant on a completely new map.

Melbourne is >> Port Moresby for instance.

I'd suggest Alice Springs should be replaced with Canberra also for list 3.

I see your point but I don't see why the modern era should be prioritised over all other others. Also, I still think geographical balance matters because if the English civ settles all over the world, even though it's a fictional world, you'd expect the pattern of cities to represent the broad span of English/British colonies across the world.

I know Canberra is much more significant than Alice Springs but to me Canberra is so tied to the period of Australian history after independence from Britain city that it just seems weird to have it as part of an English civ.

 

[say1988]

Regina was founded after Canada purchased the North-West Territories. So I probably wouldn't include it. Winnipeg, or as it was known before Confederation, Fort Garry, would be the best from the region. I would also rate Winnipeg as more important historically.

It is also sad to exclude Kingston, Ontario, but Jamaica's should be rated higher.

Philadelphia, and probably Boston, should definitely be US. Less important cities (such as Providence) could easily go to the British. There are probably 10 US cities more, or at least as, important than Providence, whose greatest importance was early on, but not that sure about it.
I would also say that Jamestown should be on the British list. Being the First [successful] British overseas colony, and of little importance (other than history) since colonial times.
The US should have first shot at most of its major cities (else many would go to someone else), but if they don't go on the US list (or there are cities that could easily replace it) they can, and should, go elsewhere.

 

[Virdrago]

Halifax (1749) was a major port for the British throughout its history. It should be included.

 

[Metal Alloy Man]

Halifax (1749) was a major port for the British throughout its history. It should be included.

I second this. Virdrago's right.

 

[lumpthing]

I've replaced Regina with Winnipeg in my suggested English citylist, but what should Halifax replace? (ignoring the American cities, because I think this should be left to Rhye, it depends on how the American civ comes into existence in RFC RAND; it might be the case that England's first colonial cities are always swallowed by America)

Personally I really don't think Jamestown should be included just because it happened to be the first. Cities in civ are important centres of economic, political, military and cultural activity. Jamestown was/is none of this.

Of course my list has no authority and Rhye will probably just ignore it and keep his own list, but it's probably more convenient to have a single list suggested by RFC-fans than for him to have to trawl through the whole forum and consider every comment.

 

[Rhye]

I've gathered all your lists made so far. Added a few swaps occasionally, but I didn't make a whole revision.

I also wanted to make clear that:
-by no means you should delete cities if >10. I just said that 10 is enough
-even if you have less than 10, it can be OK if the other lists are bigger
-Founding date isn't the only sort criteria. Should be a combination of factors, such as city importance, historical and modern, controversies, distance from the capital, and its name (I prefer to use, where possible, names not longer than Nouvelle Orleans)

Spoiler :

EGY

Category 1:

"Niwt-Rst",#Thebes
"Ineb Hedj",#Memphis
"Per-Atum",#Heliopolis
"Henen-Nesut",#Heracleopolis
"Yebu",#Elephantine
"Abdju",#Abydos
"Abusir",#Busiris
"Hut-Repyt",#Athribis
"Djanet",#Tanis
"Khmun",#Hermopolis
"Zawty",#Asyut
"Nekhen",#Heirakonpolis
"Tjeny",#Thinis
"Shedyet",# Crocodilopolis
"Gebtu",#Coptos
"Akhetaton",
"Pi-Ramesses",


Category 2:

"Per-Atum",#Pithom
"Djede",#Mendes
"Per-Wadjet",#Buto
"Per-Bastet", #Bubastis
"Tjebnutjer",#Sebennytos
"Hatwaret",#Avaris

Category 3:

"Kadesh",
"Dapur",#supposedly in Syria

Category 4:

"Gaza",
"Zemar",#in Lebanon



IND



Category One

"Dilli",#(2000 B.C.)(Capital)
"Lahore",#(2000 B.C.)(in pakistan)
"Varanasi",#(1000 B.C.)
"Nagpur",#(700 B.C.)(Note:Line over the a!)
"Takshashila",#(518 B.C.)
"Patna",#(490 B.C.)
"Ujjaini",#(400 B.C.)
"Agra",#(150 A.D. or 1504 A.D.)
"Bengaluru",#(500 A.D.)
"Dhaka",#(600 A.D.)
"Raipur",#(800 A.D.)
"Bhopal",#(1000 A.D.)
"Lakhnau",#(1350 A.D.?)
"Indore",#(Mughal Times)
"Amritsr",#(1574 A.D.)
"Hyderabad",#(1591 A.D.)
"Jaipur",#(1727)


Category Two

"Chittagong",#(ancient times)
"Mumbai",#(250 B.C.)
"Cochin",
"Calcutta",#(0 A.D.)
"Chennai",#(0 A.D.)
"Karachi",#(712 A.D.?)(in pakistan)
"Thiruvananthapuram",#(1000 B.C.)
"Visakhapatnam",#(500 B.C.)
"Orugallu",#(300 B.C.)
"Govapuri",#(200 B.C.)
"Tanjapuri",#(0 A.D.)
"Surat",#(1400's)
"Berhampur",
"Kakinada",
"Pitikapuram",

Category Three

"Badulla",#(Ancient Times)
"Galle",#(1400 B.C.)
"Anuradhapura",#(400 B.C.)
"Kurunegala",#(1200's)
"Kandy",#(1300's)
"Ratnapura",


Category Four

"Male",#(ancient times)
"Sri Jayawardenapura-Kotte",#(ancient times)
"Kolon Thota",#(0 A.D.)
"Trincomalee",#(400 B.C.)
"Jaffna",


CHI

"Beijing",# founded in 1045 BC
"Xi'an",#(Chang'an) founded in 1000s BC
"Luoyang",#770BC
"Kaifeng",#700sBC (flourish in 1000ADs, before invade of Mongols)
"Suzhou",#541BC
"Yangzhou",#486BC (flourish in 1000ADs, before invade of Mongols)
"Nanjing",#472BC
"Chengdu",#311BC (a city never completely destroyed, have a mass earthquake recently)
"Shenyang",# BC301~296
"Lanzhou",#241
"Chongqing",#(BC 1100s but named Chongqing in 1189)
"Wuhan",#(BC 1500s but disappear in BC 1100s, 3 cities together renamed Wuhan in 1927)
"Wulumuqi",#(Urumqi) 1755 AD (So we call there "new horizon")

II- Coastal Cities on the Home Continent
"Hangzhou",#(Lin'an) 221BC
"Guangzhou",#(Canton) 214BC
"Ningbo",# 821AD
"Xianmen",#(Amoy) 1387AD
"Tianjin",#(Tientsin) 1404AD
"Shanghai",# 1553AD
"Qingdao",#(Tsintao) 1891AD (Former German Colony)
"Macau",# (Aomen ??) Maybe 1557AD (Who knows what Portuguese did there?)
"Xianggang",#1841AD
"Dalian",#1899AD (Former Russian Colony)
"Shenzhen",#1980AD (the fastest growing cities, use 20 years from a small villige to a city with 11 million population)

3- for non-coastal cities in another continent
"Lasa",#(Lhasa) 633 AD (Not ours that time, but Tibet belong to China since the domination of Mogols 700years ago)
"Pyongyang",

4- for coastal cities in another continent
"Haikou",#several hundreds years ago
"Sanya",#Sanya
"Taibei",#1875AD (Taiwan was invaded by Niederlander, Spainish and Japanese, but it's part of China undoubtly, no matter it's PRC or ROC)
"Gaoxiong",#Kaohsiung





BAB
1- for non-coastal cities in the continent

"Babilû",
"Uruk",#Erech
"Larsa",#Lasar
"Ninua",
"Shushan",
"Nippur",
"Akkad",#Agade
"Eshnunna",
"Kish",
"Isin",
"Zariqum",
"Opis",
"Borsippa",#Barsippa
"Anatho",
"Sippar",
"Zuruban",
"Calchu",#Assyrian city of Nimrud.
"Cuthah",#Assyrian or Iranian plateau city.
"Mari",#west of original Babylonian power.
"Thapsacus",#tributary from Syria.

2- for coastal cities in the continent

"Eridu",
"Ur",
"Lagash",
"Kesh",#not the same as Kish

3- for non-coastal cities in another continent


4-

"Raphia",



GRE


Category One

"Sparte",#(1100 B.C.)
"Larisa",#(400 B.C.)
"Trikka",

Category Two

"Athenai",#(1000 B.C.)(Capital)
"Patras",#(3000 B.C.)
"Thessaloniki",#(315 B.C.)
"Arta",#(295 B.C.)

CAR


Category 1:

"Utica",
"Zama",
"Sicca",#(El Kef)
"Sarim Batim",#(Constantine, Algeria)
"Sitifis",#(Setif)


Category 2:

"Qart-Hadasht",#(Carthage)
"Hippo",#(Annaba)
"Kerkouane",
"Lpqy",
"Oea",#(Tripoli)
"Thapsus",
"Tingi",#(Tangier)
"Ikosim",#(Algiers)
"Rusadir",
"Tacape",
"Sabratha",
"Iol",#(Chercell)
"Tipasa",
"Lixus",
"Adrametum",
"Thanae",

Category 3:

"Carmo",#(Carmona)
"Helmantica",#(Salamanca)
"Elibyrge",#(Grenada)

Category 4:

"Qart Hadasht",#(Nova Carthago)
"Malaka",#(Malaga)
"Sexi",#(Almuñécar)
"Ziz",#(Palermo)
"Gades",#(Cádiz)
"Abdera",
"Karalis",#(Cagliari)
"Olbia",
"Melita",#(Malta)
"Motya",
"Lilybaeum",

ROM


1) Non-coastal cities:

"Roma",# founded 753 b.C.
"Arretium",# (Arezzo) founded IX century b.C., conquered 295 b.C.
"Tarquinii",# (Tarquinia) conquered 281 b.C.
"Mediolanum",# (Milano) founded 600 b.C., conquered 222 b.C.

"Beneventum",# (Benevento) founded VII century b.C., conquered 268 b.C.

"Faesulae",# (Fiesole) annexed III century b.C.
"Felsina",# – Bononia (Bologna) founded 534 b.C., conquered 189 b.C.
"Brixia",# (Brescia) founded VI century b.C., annexed 189 b.C.
"Parma",# founded VI century b.C., annexed 183 b.C.
"Perusia",# (Perugia) founded VI century b.C., annexed 89 b.C.
"Verona",# annexed 89 b.C.
"Placentia",# (Piacenza) founded 218 b.C.
"Ticinum",# (Pavia) founded 189 b.C.
"Forum Livii",#(Forlì) founded 188 b.C.
"Aquileia",#founded 181 b.C.
"Florentia",# (Firenze) founded 59 b.C.
"Augusta Taurinorum",#(Torino) founded 29 b.C.
"Augusta Praetoria",#(Aosta) founded 25 b.C.


2) Coastal cities:

"Ostia",# founded 633 b.C.
"Antium",# (Anzio) annexed V century b.C.?
"Capua",# founded 800 b.C., annexed 343 b.C.
"Rhegium",# (Reggio Calabria) founded VIII century b.C., annexed 341 b.C.
"Neapolis",# (Napoli) founded V century b.C., conquered 326 b.C.
"Tarentum",# (Taranto) founded 706 b.C., conquered 272 b.C.
"Brundisium",# (Brindisi) founded ?, conquered 267 b.C.
"Genua",# (Genova) founded XX century b.C., refounded 203 b.C.
"Pisae",# (Pisa) founded VI century b.C., annexed 180 b.C.
"Ancona",# founded 387 b.C., annexed 113 b.C.

3- for non-coastal cities in another continent
"Italica",# (206 BCE)
"Metellinum",# (80 BCE)
"Corinthiensis",# (44 BCE)
"Lugdunum",# (43 BCE)
"Emerita Augusta",# (25 BCE)
"Bracara Augusta",# (20 BCE)
"Augusta Treverorum",# (16 BCE)
"Augusta Rauracorum",# (15 BCE)
"Augusta Vindelicorum",# (15 BCE)
"Augusta Suessionum",# (Augustus)
"Camulodunom",# (43 CE)
"Eboracum",# (71 CE)

4- for coastal cities in another continent
"Dyrrachium",# (229 BCE)
"Colonia Iunonia",#/Carthago (122 BCE)
"Narbo Martius",# (118 BCE)
"Tarraco",# (?)
"Thapsus",# (46 BCE)
"Patras",# (Augustus)
#Nova Roma/Constantinopolis (330 CE)



JAP

Noncoastal Continental
"Kyoto",# (capital, 6th century, originally Heian-kyo)
"Nara", #(710)
"Nagano",# (642)
"Fukushima",# (12th century)
"Yamaguchi",# (14th century)
"Matsumoto",# (15th century)
"Takayama",# (16th century)
"Morioka",# (1597)
"Nagaoka",# (1616)

Coastal Continental
"Edo",# (1457, Tokyo after 1603)
"Fukuoka",# (ancient times)
"Osaka",# (3rd century)
"Kobe",# (3rd century)
"Kagoshima",# (14th century)
"Nagasaki",# (before 16th century)
"Hiroshima",# (1589)
"Sendai",# (1600)
"Nagoya",# (1610)
"Shimonoseki",# (18th century)
"Yokohama",# (19th century)

Noncoastal Noncontinental
"Sapporo",# (late 19th century)
"Mukden",# (ancient, Japanese after 1905, also Shenyang [don’t know the Japanese name, Mukden is Manchurian])
"Toyohara",# (1905)

Coastal Noncontinental
"Naha",# (ancient times)
"Hakodate",# (1454)
"Kushiro",# (1869)
"Otomari",# (1905)
"Keijo",# (conquered 1910, Japanese name for Seoul)



ETH


Category 1:

"Aksum",# - capital of the ancient country of Aksum (coincidentally).
"Yeha",# - may have been the capital of the D'mt kingdom (8th century BC).
"Hawulti",# - evidently an important city of the Aksumite kingdom.
"Qohaito",# - may have been Aksum's summer capital.
"Matara",# - major Aksumite city.
"Lalibela",# - either originally Roha or Adefa. Renamed after King Lalibela, who was born there. Second-holiest city in the country to Ethiopians after Aksum.
"Asmera",# - founded in the 12th century during Solomonic dynasty.
"Debre Berhan",# - founded by Zara Yakob as his capital (1456).
"Gonder",# - capital from 1635 until 1855.
"Adowa",# - gained importance in the 17th century as a trade route between Gonder and the coast.
"Makale",# - founded 13th century, not important until the 19th.
"Addis Ababa",# - founded 1886 by Menelik II.
"Dessye",# - founded 1882.
"Diredawa",# - founded 1902.

Category 2:

"Adulis",# - main port of Aksum. Now capital of Eritrea.
"Avalitis",# - modern Assab.
"Massawa",# - also spelled Massawa. Overshadowed by Adulis most of its history.

Category 3:

"Saphar",# - Zafar, Yemen. Part of the Aksumite Kingdom at its height.
"Harerge",# - also Harar. Capital of the Islamic kingdom of Adal.
"Bonga",# - capital of the kingdom of Kaffa, 14th to 19th centuries.

Category 4:

"Muza",# - site in modern Saudi Arabia. Part of ancient Aksum.
"Zeila",# - capital of the sultanate of Ifat.
"Suakin",# - in Sudan.






VIK


1:
"Birka",
"Västerås",
"Södertälje",
"Viborg",
"Uppsala",
"Lund",
"Skien",
"Randers",
"Roskilde",
"Hedeby",
"Schleswig",
"Skara",
"Sigtuna",
"Linköping",
"Örebro",
"Odense",
"Ålborg",

2:
"Nidaros",
"Oslo",
"Tønsberg",
"Stockholm",
"Bergen",
"Helsingborg",
"Kalmar",
"Stavanger",
"København",
"Århus",
"Aalborg",
"Malmö",
"Ribe",
"Sarpsborg",
"Visby",
"Køge",
"Köpingsvik",
"Kaupang",

3.
"Cork",
"Limerick",
"Wexford",
"Skarðaborg",
"Grobina",
"Holmgård",
"Timerevo",

4.
"Waterford",
"Dublin",
"Reykjavik",
"Tórshavn",
"Vinland",
"Kirkwall",
"Swansea",
"Klaksvík",
"Helluland",
"Markland",
"Hjaltland",
"Arklow",
"Brattahlíð",
"Hafnarfjörður",
"Reay",

ARA

1.
"Makkah",
"Al-Madinah",
"Dimashq",
"Baghdad",
"Najran",
"Mosul",
"Ar-Riyad",
"Halab",
"Sanaa",
"Amman",

2.
"Al-Basrah",
"Gaza",
"Beirut",
"Masqat",
"Aden",
"Al-Qatif",
"Abu-Dhabi",
"Dubai",
"Al-Kuwait",
"Ad-Dammam",
"Salalah",

3.
"Aswan",
"Al Qayrawan",
"Fas",
"Gárnata",
"Harar",
"Al-Khartum",
"Sabha",

4.
"Al-Iskhandariya",
"Al-Jazair",
"Tunis",
"Wahran",
"Dar-Beida",
"Rabbat",
"Maqadishu",
"Zanji-bar",
"Tobruk",


KHM

1- for non-coastal cities in the continent

"Angkor",#
"Yasodharapura",# - first Khmer capital built at Angkor. Sanskrit translation: "Holy City", or "Capital City" by extension.
"Isanapura",# - capital of the Khmer kingdom of Chenla.
"Hariharalaya",# - another former capital.
"Sambhupura",# - captured by Jayavarman II. On the Mekong.
"Ba Phnom",#
"Suryaparvata",#
"Wat Phu",# - temple complex associated with Shrestapura, a Chenla or Champa city. Shrestapura may be a better option, since its a city.
"Mahendraparvata",# - founded by Jayavarman II.
"Aninditapura",#
"Lovek",# - capital in the sixteenth century.
"Pursat",#
"Koh Ker",# - capital under Jayavarman IV and Hasavarman II.
"Pimai",# - also Phimai.
"Udong",#
"Mahanokor",# - could also be Wat Nokor?
"Siem Reap",# - means "defeat of Siam".
"Beng Melea",# - Ancient Khmer city.
"Phnom Penh",# - current capital, after Koh Ker.
"Batdambang",# - founded in the 11th century.
"Lomphat",#
"Kampong Svay",# - another ancient Khmer city.
"Kracheh",# - also called Kratie.


2- for coastal cities in the continent

"Prey Nokor",# - Now Ho Chi Minh City (Saigon). Main Khmer port until the 17th century.
"Chaudoc",# - Now in southern Vietnam.
"Kampot",#

3- for non-coastal cities in another continent

"Klong Thom",# - supposedly in modern Thailand.

4- for coastal cities in another continent

"Indrapur",# - Cham city conquered by the Khmer. Today's Dong Duong in Vietnam.
"Kauthara",# - Another Cham city captured by the Khmer, around 945.



SPA


"Madrid",
"Sevilla",
"Toledo",
"Zaragoza",
"Santiago",
"Salamanca",
"Pamplona",
"Córdoba",
"Granada",
"Badajoz",
"León",
"Oviedo",
"Vitoria",
"Bilbao",
"Albacete",
"Burgos",

"Barcelona",
"Valencia",
"La Coruña",
"Santander",
"Malaga",
"Alicante",
"Huelva",
"Almería",
"Ceuta",
"Melilla",
"Tenerife",
"Ibiza",

"Guadalajara",
"La Paz",
"Medellín",
"Bogotá",
"Monterrey",
"Villa Hermosa",
"Asunción",
"Puebla",
"Chihuahua",
"Concepción",
"Santa Fé",
"San Antonio",
"Hermosillo",
"Las Vegas",
"Rosario",

"Santo Domingo",
"La Habana",
"Veracruz",
"Lima",
"San Juan",
"Buenos Aires",
"Campeche",
"Caracas",
"Santa Marta",
"San Salvador",
"Guatemala",
"Cartagena de Indias",
"Montevideo",
#"Los Angeles",
"Sacremento",#(1839)
"San Diego",





FRA

Category One

"Paris",#(52 B.C.)
"Lyon",#(100 B.C.)
"Avignon",#(Roman Times)
"Orléans",
"Reims",#(496 A.D.)
"Tours",
"Chartres",
"Toulouse",
"Angers",
"Rennes",
"Avignon",
"Besançon",
"Dijon",
"Poitiers",
"Amiens",
"Metz",
"Clermont-Ferrand",
"Rouen",
"Limoges",

Category Two

"Marseille",#(100-0 B.C.)
"Bordeaux",#(350 B.C.)
"Brest",
"Le Havre",
"Nantes",
"Nice",
"Toulon",
"Calais",
"La Rochelle",
"Montpellier",
"La Roche-sur-Yon",
"Saint-Nazaire",
"Caen",
"Perpignan",
"Biarritz",
"Dunkerque",


Category Three
"Québec", #(1608)
"Bâton-Rouge", #(1699)
"St.Louis", #(1703)
"Fort Détroit", #(1701)
"Tadoussac", #(1599)
"Fort Toulouse", #(1717)
"Fort Niagara", #(1726)
"Fort Dauphin",
"Sault Ste-Marie", #(1668)
"Saül", #
"Trois-Rivières",
"Fort-Lamy",
"Bangui",

Category Four
"Cayenne", #(1604)
"Port Royal", #(1605)
"Montréal", #(1642)
"Fort Caroline", #(1564)
"Nouvelle Orleans", #(1718)
"Fort-de-France", #(1638)
"Basse-Terre", #(1643)
"Mobile", #(1702)
"Biloxi", #(1699)
"Port-au-Prince", #(1749)
"Kourou",
"Libreville",
"Philippeville",
"Abidjan",
"Conakry",
"Pointe-à-Pitre",
"Cap-Francais",
"Nouméa", #(1864)
"Saint-Louis-du-Sénégal",



ENG


"York",# 71, Roman
"Manchester", #79, Roman
"Newcastle",#120, Roman
"Nottingham",#c. 550
"Ipswich",
"Norwich", #c. 650
"Birmingham", #c. 600
"Bath", #43, Roman
"Cambridge",
"Canterbury",
"Glasgow", #c. 550 *
"Middlesbrough",
"Lincoln", #c. 650
"Coventry", #1043
"Leeds",
"Derby",
"Leicester",
"Coventry",
"Wolverhampton",
"Blackburn",

"London",#43, Roman
#"Gloucester", #48, Roman
#"Exeter", #50, Roman
"Southampton", #c 50, Roman
"Hastings",
"Edinburgh",#c. 600 *
"Cardiff",#55, Roman *
"Glasgow",# c. 550 *
"Brighton",
"Aberdeen", #c. 750
"Bristol",# 1000
"Hull", #1150
"Portsmouth", #1180
"Blackpool",
"Liverpool", #1207
"Plymouth", #1235
"Belfast",#1609

#"Philadelphia", #1682, USA **
"Toronto", #1787, Canada
"Ottawa", #1800, Canada
"Edmonton", #1790, Canada
"Ladysmith", #1850, South Africa ***
"Kimberley", #1871, South Africa
"Winnipeg",
"Upington",
"Salisbury",#1890, capital of Zimbabwe
"Blantyre",#1891, Malawi
"Livingstone", #c. 1895, Zambia
"Alice Springs", #c. 1870, Australia
"Hamilton",
"Canberra",#1820
"Regina",#1882, Canada

"Jamestown",
#"Boston",#1630
"Providence",#1636
#"Baltimore",#1729, USA **
"Bridgetown",#1654, Barbados
"Kingston",#1692, Jamaica
"Georgetown",# 1781, Guyana
"Sydney",#1788, Australia
"Durban",
"Melbourne",
"Perth",
"Vancouver",
"Adelaide",
"Wellington",
"Halifax", #1749
"Port Elizabeth",#1820, South Africa
"Brisbane",#1824, Australia
"Auckland", #1840, New Zealand
"Vancouver", #1863, Canada
"Port Moresby", #1873, Papua New Guinea
"Stanley",



GER

Category One

"Berlin", #(1157)(Capital)
"Wien", #(200 B.C.)
"München", #(1158)
"Frankfurt", #(794)
"Aachen (765) (HRE)
"Köln",
"Salzburg", #(700's)
"Trier (16 BC) (considered as olderst german town)
"Dortmund", #(880)
"Stuttgart", #(950)
"Leipzig", #(1015)
"Nürnburg", #(1050)
"Düsseldorf", #(1135)
"Hannover", #(1200's)
"Dresden", #(1206)
"Essen", #(700's)
"Warschau", #(1000's)
"Breslau", #(1000's)
"Pressburg", #(1000's)
"Magdeburg",
"Würzburg",
"Ulm",
"Karlsruhe",
"Halle",
"Potsdam",
"Luxemburg",
"Schwerin",
"Goslar",


Category Two

"Bremen", #(150)
"Hamburg", #(808)
"Königsberg", #(1255)(Prussian Capital)(now Kaliningrad, Russia)
"Lübeck", #(700)
"Danzig", #(980)
"Ellbing", #(890)(now Poland: Elblag)
"Rostock", #(1000's)
"Oldenburg", #(1108)(low german: Ollnburg)
"Stralsund", #(1168)
"Griefswald", #(1199)
"Kiel", #(1233)
"Wismar",# (1000)
"Wilhelmshaven", #(1869)


Category Three

"Otjimbingwe", #(1849)
"Weidmannsheil", #(1850)
"Wituland", #(1858)
"Lüderitzbucht", #(1883)
"Yaounde", #(1888)
"Bujumbura", #(1889)
"Kigali", #(1907)
"Bismarckburg",

Category Four

"Klein Venedig", #(1529)
"Groß Friedrichsburg", #(1683)
"Krabbeninsel", #(1689)
"Tertholen", #(1696)
"Bagamoyo", #(1700's)
"Sebeib", #(1884)
"Kaiser-Wilhelmsland", #(1884)
"Marshallinseln", #(1885)
"Swakopmund", #(1892)



RUS


1.

"Moskva",#1147 (Landlocked Capital)
"Novgorod",#950s or so
"Kiev",# - Really Damn Old
"Jaroslavl",#1010 or so
"Tver"# - 1164
"Smolensk",#863 or so
"Carycin",#1589
"Samara",#1586
"Tula",#1300s
"Vladimir",#1108 or so
"Perm",#1647
"Pskov",#903 or so
"Voronezh",#1585
"Novosibirsk",
"Rostov",# 862 or so
"Kursk",
"Izhevsk",#1760
"Nizhnij Novgorod"# – 1221

Category 2:

"St. Petersburg", # (Coastal Capital) – 1703
"Archangelsk",#1584
"Astrakhan",
"Rostov-na-Donu",#1794
"Sevastopol",# (now Ukrainian) 1783
"Odessa",# (ditto)
"Novorossijsk",# (Black Sea) – 1838
"Sochi", #1864
"Murmansk", #1916
"Vladivostok",
"Petropavlovsk",# - Kamchatsky
"Magadan",
"Yalta",# (Ukrainian now)



3.
"Jakutsk",# – 1632
"Ekaterinburg",# – 1723
"Irkutsk",# – 1652
"Khabarovsk",# – 1858
"Novosibirsk",# – 1893
"Cheljabinsk",# -1763
"Tobolsk",# – 1585
"Tjumen",# – 1586
"Tomsk",# – 1604
"Krasnojarsk – 1628
"Omsk",# – 1716
"Barnaul",# – 1730
"Kemerovo",# – 1918
"Vostok",#(Inland Antarctic station)
"Buyukly",#(inland Sakhalin)
"Yuzhno-Sakhalinsk",# (post WW2 name), oblast capital.



4.

"Novo-Arkhangelsk",# – 1804 (Alaska, major settlement)
"Vladivostok",# – 1860
"Okhotsk",# - 1643
"Pavlovskaja Gavan'",# - 1792
"Voskresenskaja",# (Seward, under the USA) – 1793
"Konstantinovsky",# – 1793
"Slavorossija",# – 1796
"Krepost' Ross",# (Fort Ross) – 1812
"Voskresenskaya",# (should shange to Seward when captured by USA)
"Pavlovskaya Gavan'",# (1792)
"Konstantinovsky",# (1793)
"Port Chichagov",# – around 1800 (?)
"Petropavlovsk–Kamchatskij",# – 1740
"Korsakov",# (largest town, coastal) (Sakhalin)
"Alexandrovka",# (non-minor town) (Sakhalin)
"Yuzhno-Kurilsk",# (Japanese name: Furukamappu)
"Kodiak",# (Alaska, major settlement)
"Unalaska",# (Alaska, major settlement)
"Mikhailovsk",# (Alaska, major settlement)
"Mirnyy",# (Coastal Antarctic stations)
"Molodyozhnaya",# (Coastal Antarctic stations)
"Novolazarevskaya",# (Coastal Antarctic stations)
"Magadan",# – 1930s





NET


1) Non-costal homeland
"Utrecht",
"Arnhem",
"Maastricht",
"Nijmegen",
"Groningen",
"Delft",
"Alkmaar",
"'s-Hertogenbosch",
"Leeuwarden",
"Leiden",
"Breda",
"Dordrecht",
"Apeldoorn",
"Zwolle",

2) costal homeland
"Amsterdam",
"Rotterdam",
"'s-Gravenhage", #Den Haag (=The Hague)
"Haarlem",
"Den Helder", # (Historical important)
"Den Briel", # (Historical important)
"Veere", # (Historical important)
"Middelburg", # (Historical important, VOC HQ, currently non costal)
"IJmuiden",
"Vlissingen",
"Terneuzen",
"Delfzijl",

3) Non costal colonial (hard, as the Dutch didn't colonise continental and if they did, is was in jungle land, so not much)
"Bloemenfontein",
"Johannesburg",
"Windhoek",
"Pretoria",
"Stellenbosch",
"Fort Nassau",
"Fort Oranje",
"Fort Zeelandia", # (many costal colonies are named likewise)
"Noortwijck", # (New York area)

4)Costal colonies (New = Nieuw)
"Kaapstad", # (in RFC Kaapstadt)
"Nieuw Amsterdam", # (not only New York)
"Nieuw Rotterdam",
"Walvisbaai", # (= whale Bay)
"Batavia", # (= Djakatra)
"Oranjestad",
"Willemstad",
"Mauritsstad",
"Pietermaritzburg",
"Stabroek",
"Paramaribo",
"Deshima", # (artificial island in Japan in the 1600's, Dutch tradingpost until the 1800's, also 't eyland Schisma)



MAL

1- non-coastal cities in the continent
Timbuktu
"Niani",# - the actual capital of Mali
"Kangaba",# - pre Malian Empire capital
"Jenne",#
"Gao",#
"Taghaza",#
"Walata",#
""Tadmekka",#
"Wadan",#
"Awdaghost",#
"Teodeni",#
"Bilma",#
"Agades",#
"Titchitt",#
"Kirina",#
"Takedda",#
"Kita",#
"Kulikoro",#
"Kumbi Saleh",# (G)
"Kukiya",# (S)
"Kitsina",#, also called Katsina (S)
"Kano",# (S)
"Zaria",# (S)
"Segu",# (S)
"Arawan",# (S)
"Hombori",# (S)
"Rano",# (S)
"Tondib",#i (S)
"Diara",# (S)
"Bamba",# (S)
"Bussa",# (S)
"Say",# (S)

2- coastal cities in the continent

"Accra",# (G)
"Nioro",# (G)


POR

Portugal

1.Coastal
"Lisboa",
"Porto",
"Faro",
"Leiria",
"Lagos",
"Setúbal",
"Tavira",
"Aveiro",
"Viana do Castelo",
"Figueira da Foz",

2.Inland
"Guimarães",
"Braga",
"Coimbra",
"Silves",
"Viseu",
"Lamego",
"Bragança",
"Évora",
"Guarda",
"Castelo Branco",
"Tomar",


Category 3

"Huambo",#(Angola)
"São Salvador",#(Congo)
"Cuito Cuanavale",#(Angola)
"Malvérnia",#(Mozambique)
"Vila Pery", #(Mozambique)
"Vila Junqueiro",#(Mozambique)
"Vila Cabral",#(Mozambique)
"Sá da Bandeira",#(Angola)
"Vila Luso",#(Angola)


Category 4

"Ponta Delgada",
"Funchal",
"Bissau",
"Luanda",
"Lourenço Marques",# (Maputo in Moçambique)
"Porto Seguro",
"Rio de Janeiro",
"Brasilia",
"Díli",# (in Timor-Leste)
"Goa", #(pangim/panaji/panjim in India)
"Damão",# (Daman in India)







INC


1
"Qusqu",
"Machu-Pikchu",
"Quitu",
"Ariqipaya",
"Wantar Chawin",# (oldest settlement in America, should be renamed as Chavín de Huántar if conquered by Spain))
"Kashamarka", #(Cajamarca)
"Huamanga",
"Willkapampa", (should be renamed to Vilcabamba if conquered by Spain)
"Ullantaytanpu",
"Andahuailas",
"Waras", #(Huaraz)
"Tomebamba",
"Kuélap",

2
"Chan-Chan",
"Nazca",
"Tiyawanaku",# (used to be on Titicaca, but as close as what the original Incan knew as a sea)
"Tucume",
"Pachacamaq",
"Punu",# (on Titicaca, but as close as what the original Incan knew as a sea, should be renamed as Puno if conquered by Spain)




MON


I- Non-coastal Cities on the Home Continent

"Kharakhorum",#- 1220
"Ulaanbaatar",# - 1639
"Ulaan-Ude",# (Ulan-Ude) -1666
"Samarqand",# - 700BC-ish
"Bukhara",# - 500BC-ish, leveled by the Mongols in 1220
"Tashkent",# – 400BC-ish, leveled by the Mongols in 1219
"Kasgár",# – 76BC-ish
"Urumqi",# – founded by the Tang Dynasty in 0AD-ish, dubbed Urumqi in 1954
"Lhasa",# - 641AD–ish
"Hohhot",#- 1580
"Amarbayasgalant",# – 1727
"Chojbalsan",# – 1800s
"Chahar",# – 1912
"Sukhbaatar",# - 1940
"Darkhan",# - 1961
"Erdenet",# - 1975

II- Coastal Cities on the Home Continent

"Khovsgol",# - 1931
"Khalkh Gol",# - site of major fighting in 1939
"Olkhon",# - 1987
"Uvs Nuur",# - Lake, permanent settlement in 1930s
"Hulun Nuur",# - Lake, permanent settlement in 1930s

III- Non-coastal Cities on Another Continent #Europe

"Sarai Berke",# – 1245-ish
"Shine Sarai",# (New Sarai, which was separate, while Sarai Berke and Sarai Batu were probably the same city) – before 1395
"Kazan",# - mid 1400s
"Khem-Beldyr",# – 1914

IV- Coastal Cities on Another Continent

"Khazaran",# - Between 600 and 1000AD
"Astrakhan",# - existed in the 1200s
"Elista",# – 1865

TUR

Category One

"Angora",#(1200 B.C.)(Current Capital)
"Edirne",#(? by Greeks)
"Bursa",#(202 B.C. by Greeks)
"Konya",#(3000-1500 B.C.)
"Erzurum",#(Ancient times)
"Denizli",#(Prehistoric Times by Greeks)
"Ayintap",#(1500-1000 B.C.)
"Malatya",#(1400 B.C.)
"Diyâr-i Bekr",#(1200 B.C.)
"Eskisehir",#(1000 B.C.)


Category Two

"Istanbul",#(Capital)(founded 330 A.D. by Romans and 667 B.C. by Greeks)
"Izmir",#(1500 B.C.)
"Trabzon",#(756 B.C. by Greeks)
"Kayseri",
"Alanya",#(625 B.C.)
"Samsun",#(500 B.C. by Greeks)
"Iskenderon",#(333 B.C.)
"Antalya",#(150 B.C. by Greeks)
"Mersin",#(8000 B.C./1200 B.C.)
"Karadeniz Eregli",#(Ancient times by Greeks)
"Bandirma",#(Recently)

AME

#*means initially founded by England
#**means initially founded by France
#***means initially founded by Spain or Mexico
#****means initially founded by the Netherlands


1 noncoastal in initial continent:
"Detroit",# ca 1701*
"Chicago",# ca 1770*
"Kansas City",# (1714)
"Pittsburgh",# ca 1758*
"Nashville",# (1779)
"Cincinnati",# ca 1788
"Buffalo",# ca 1789
"Cleveland",# ca 1796
"Indianapolis",# (1821)
"Atlanta",# ca 1837
"Minneapolis?(1837)
"Dallas",# ca 1841
"Salt Lake City",# ca 1847
"Denver",# ca 1858
"Phoenix",# ca 1881
#"Las Vegas",# ca 1905

2 coastal on initial continent:
"Washington",# ca 1790 (capital)
"New York",# ca 1624**** (also potentially an English settlement)
"Boston",# ca 1630*
"Philadelphia",# ca 1681*
#"New Orleans",# ca 1718** (potentially Spanish as well)
#"San Diego",# ca 1769***
"Los Angeles",# ca 1771***
"Jacksonville",#(1791)
"San Francisco",# ca 1776***
"Miami",# ca 1825
"Houston",# ca 1837
"Portland",#(1843)(not on ocean but close enough)
"Oakland",#(1848)
"Seattle",# ca 1851
"Virginia Beach",


3 non-coastal cities in another continent:
"Juneau",# (alaska) 1881
"Fairbanks",#(1903)
"Camp Darby",#(Italy)
"Camp Ederle",#(Italy)
"Fort Gulick",#(Panama)
"Fort Sherman",#(Panama)
"Quarry Heights",#(Panama)
"Fort Clayton",#(Panama)
"Fort Kobbe",#(Panama)


4 coastal cities in another continent:

"Saint Thomas",# ca 1657****
"Guam",# ca 1668***
"Monrovia",
"Freetown",
"American Samoa",#: ca 1830s
"Midway",#(1867)
"Honolulu",#: ca 1898 (Hawaii was annexed as a territory in 1898, although was arguably influenced/claimed by America earlier).
"Anchorage",#: ca 1914
"Unalaska",#(1933)
"Saipan",#(1986)
"Fort Amador",#(Panama)

Please, from now on, make the updates directly on this list (so that we have a single version), and keep the syntax
"......",
or
"......", #comment
or
#".......", #comment if the city is excluded

 

[lumpthing]

Maybe we should create a wiki so that this can continuously be improved without creating loads of individual comments? I'd be very happy to quickly set one up.

 

[Rhye]

we need just a page on the RFC wiki then

 

[Lokolus]

There are many cities that are present in more than one list: Gaza, Lyon, Carthage, Constantinopolis, Harar, Algiers and maybe more.

 

[jkp1187]

we need just a page on the RFC wiki then

This is a good idea.

 

[lumpthing]

Okay, I've created a new page on the Wiki: http://wikirhye.wikidot.com/rfc-rand-suggested-city-lists

 

[jkp1187]

Nice, but I can't make edits.

 

[lumpthing]

From what I understand whenever someone is editing a page they get temporary exclusive rights to edit it. So perhaps someone was editing it already.

Obviously you have to create an account on the wiki first as well.

 

[say1988]

There are many cities that are present in more than one list: Gaza, Lyon, Carthage, Constantinopolis, Harar, Algiers and maybe more.

Note that any city preceded by a # is excluded, so technically isn't there. For example, Nova Roma/Constantinopolis is not actually in the list, but Istanbul is. Same for Boston, Philly on English and American lists. I thought the exact same thing and was about to post when I noticed it.

 

[Fierabras]

Dutch

1) Non-costal homeland
Utrecht
Arnhem
's-Hertogenbosch
Leeuwarden
Leiden
Maastricht
Nijmegen
Delft
Alkmaar
Groningen
Breda
Dordrecht
Apeldoorn
Zwolle

2) costal homeland
Amsterdam
Rotterdam
Den Haag (=The Hague)
Haarlem
Den Helder (Historical important)
Den Briel (Historical important)
Veere (Historical important)
Middelburg (Historical important, VOC HQ, currently non costal)
IJmuiden
Vlissingen
Terneuzen
Delfzijl

As I am Dutch, I feel the urge to comment on the above list. Haarlem is not coastal. I agree with most of Sadomacho's list (colonial ones are fine), but I have made a revised one for the first 2 sets:

1) Non-coastal homeland

Utrecht
Nijmegen
Maastricht
Delft
Leiden
Haarlem
's-Hertogenbosch
Deventer
Groningen
Leeuwarden
Breda
Eindhoven
Gouda
Alkmaar
Tilburg

2) Coastal homeland

Amsterdam
Rotterdam
Den Haag (=The Hague)
Den Helder (Historical important)
Den Briel (Historical important)
Veere (Historical important)
Middelburg (Historical important, VOC HQ, currently non coastal)
IJmuiden
Vlissingen
Terneuzen
Delfzijl

 

[Virdrago]

I added a Maya list to the wiki yesterday, if anyone would like to comment on it. I know Rhye has it set up from earliest to latest spawn, but I have the Mayan list at the bottom. This is so people can check my accuracy without losing themselves trying to find it amongst the Ethiopians/Vikings...

 

[The_Coyote]

some additions and remarks:

GER

Category One

"Berlin", #(1157)(Capital)
"Wien", #(200 B.C.)
"München", #(1158)
"Prag" # cz: "Praha" , again added, i know this could lead to controversies, but it´s also the second city in the HRE list of BTS and one of the importants town in the HRE, and the capital of bohemia, the perhaps strongest kingdom in the early times of the HRE, also having kings of bohemia emperors of the HRE (eg. Charles IV) and also later a important part of the Habsburg Monarchy, almost becoming the third crown of the habsburger, if not included i would also vote for removing all now polish cities like Danzig, Ellbing, Breslau and the slovak capital Pressburg (Bratislava)
"Frankfurt", #(794) there are two frankfurts in germany, one called "Frankfurt am Main" the second called "Frankfurt an der Oder", the first is the historic more important (imo)
"Aachen" # (765) (HRE)
"Köln",
"Salzburg", #(700's)
"Trier" #(16 BC) (considered as olderst german town)
"Dortmund", #(880)
"Stuttgart", #(950)
"Leipzig", #(1015)
"Nürnburg", #(1050)
"Düsseldorf", #(1135)
"Hannover", #(1200's)
"Dresden", #(1206)
"Essen", #(700's)
# "Warschau", #(1000's), no idea why the polish capital should be german
"Breslau", #(1000's), comment, see Prag
"Pressburg", #(1000's), comment, see Prag
"Magdeburg",
"Würzburg",
"Ulm",
"Karlsruhe",
"Halle",
"Potsdam",
"Luxemburg",
"Schwerin",
"Goslar",
"Wittenberg", #officially "Lutherstadt Wittenberg"


Category Two

"Bremen", #(150)
"Hamburg", #(808)
"Königsberg", #(1255)(Prussian Capital)(now Kaliningrad, Russia)
"Lübeck", #(700)
"Danzig", #(980), comment, see Prag
"Ellbing", #(890)(now Poland: Elblag), comment, see Prag
"Rostock", #(1000's)
"Oldenburg", #(1108)(low german: Ollnburg)
"Stralsund", #(1168)
"Greifswald", #(1199) fixed typo (ie -> ei)
"Kiel", #(1233)
"Wismar",# (1000)
"Wilhelmshaven", #(1869)


Category Three

"Otjimbingwe", #(1849)
"Weidmannsheil", #(1850)
"Wituland", #(1858)
"Lüderitzbucht", #(1883)
"Yaounde", #(1888)
"Bujumbura", #(1889)
"Kigali", #(1907)
"Bismarckburg",

Category Four

"Klein Venedig", #(1529
"Groß Friedrichsburg", #(1683)
"Krabbeninsel", #(1689)
"Tertholen", #(1696)
"Bagamoyo", #(1700's)
"Sebeib", #(1884)
"Kaiser-Wilhelmsland", #(1884)
"Marshallinseln", #(1885)
"Swakopmund", #(1892)
"Helgoland", the only island not in immediate vicinity to the mainland (formerly Danish and British), therefore called germanies only "high see" island
"Theresa", # Austrian Colony, one of the Nicobar islands

 

[Virdrago]

Added more Greek cities in the wiki, if anyone has suggestions...

Edit: I also added Persia and some Ottoman cities (especially in cats 3 and 4, some may be debated).

 

[PinkPallin]

Obviously you have to create an account on the wiki first as well.

I can't succeed in creating a wikidot account: it says "The email can not be sent to this address" - I tried three different addresses, checking they were properly working. Is there any trick I didn't get?

Well, I'll try again tomorrow. Otherwise I'll have to post the additions to the Roman list in this thread.