Rhye's of Europe Civ Discussion Thread

While that would be a more accurate way of handling Scandinavia, we aren't adding any more civs. I'm also not sure how we would do a random start, if such a thing were possible.


In order to represent the dual Danish/Norwegian nature of the 'Norse' (and there was some debate over which should dominate), we had Tonsberg flip shortly after spawn, to give them a foothold in Scandinavia proper. There are a handful of good city sites in Norway and many good sites in Sweden; ideally, the AI Norse will expand to fill both, while the human player will attempt to expand into historically conquered/settled territory in order to complete the UHV goal.

Thanks for your suggestions. I do wonder if Cnut or Harald Hardrada might be a better leader than Ragnar.
 
As one of the original so-called "authors of this mod", I can assure you that no particularly "Greek" influence was intended at any time. So, I agree, that Greece should have absolutely no place in this mod as it ends in 1800.
With no disrespect to micbic or any Greek, but as a Turkish friend once said to me, "Without 300 years of Turkish occupation how on earth would the Greeks have ever learned to how to cook?":mischief:

If you view my post more clearly, I talk about a possible respawn, since Greek (small and unsuccessful) revolts started before 1800, and same goes with Bulgaria (should respawn at Sofia) and or Arabia (should respawn with Cairo as capital, and as Egypt)

Actually, the fact about the Turkish influence in our cuisine is kinda true.
 
On the subject of the Norse I played them a little while ago going for the UHV and noticed that their first UHV ends at 1100.
Now any one who favors historical accuracy or likes to settle where there's better stability will favor for the France critera the Normandy area. However this area flips to the English at 1066 so it is not wise to settle there for the UHV.
Now, it is historically accurate that this area should be included in England's flip zone since William the Conquerer was a Norseman, so I propose to move the the finish date of this UHV to 1050. This would also mean that conquering York for the UHV condition will be an option, so the removal of 50 years from the time you can complete this UHV doesn't make it too hard.
 
This thread is for discussing Civs in Rhye's of Europe. For the moment, we're still hammering out a Civ list. I will try to update this page 1/page of discussion to keep it current. Once this list is semi-finalized discussion about UUs, UBs, and UHVs can commence.

Current Civ List:
Western Europe (4)
Kingdom of Neustria (500 AD) -> West Francia (840 AD) -> France (990 AD)
England (500 AD) -> Great Britain (1700 AD or by cities held?)
Netherlands (1050 AD)
Burgundy (500 AD)

Iberian Peninsula (3)
Kingdom of Asturias (720 AD) -> Leon (920 AD) -> Crown of Castile (1230 AD)
-> Empire of Spain (1520 AD)
Portugal (1100 AD)
Al-Andalus (700 AD)

North & Central Europe (5)
Norse: Danes (500 AD) -> Calmar (?) -> Sweden (?)
Kingdom of Austrasia (500 AD) -> East Francia (840 AD) -> Kingdom of Germany
(920 AD) -> Germanic States (1260 AD)
Lechia (970 AD) -> Poland (???) -> Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth (1570 AD)
Austria/House of Habsburg (1160 AD or 1280 AD) and at 1850 autrian-hungarian empire if austria conquer hungary and bohemia (prague)
Old Swiss Confederacy (1290 AD) -> Switzerland (1650 AD?)

Eastern Europe (6)
Eastern Roman Empire (500 AD)
Kievan Rus (860 AD) -> Principality of Chernigov (1080 AD) -> Zaporozhian
Host? (1650 AD) -> Russian Empire (By Cities Held)
Vladimir-Suzdal (1090 AD) -> Grand Duchy of Moscow (1320 AD) -> Tsardom of
Russia (1547 AD) -> Russian Empire (By cities held)
Magyars (900 AD) -> Kingdom of Hungary (1000 AD)
Ottoman Empire (1300 AD)
Umayyad Caliphate (660 AD) -> Abbasid Caliphate (750 AD) -> Fatimid
Caliphate (970 AD) -> Ayyubid Dynasty (1170 AD) -> Mamluk Sultanate (
1250 AD)

Italy (3)
Papal States (500 AD)
Republic of Venetia (800 AD)
Republic of Genoa (1000 AD)

Additional Candidates:
Kingdom of Sicily (1000 AD)

Total: 21 + (1) independents, room for 1 more

Cities Belonging to Independents: not complete
*Novgorod
*Dublin
*Belfast
*Edinburough
*Gdansk
*Firenze/Florence (Italy)
*Milan (Italy)
*Burdigala -> Bordeaux (Occitania)
*Tolosa (Occitania)
*Massilia/Marseilles
*Narbo -> Narbonne or Barcino -> Barcelona
*Smolensk (Russia)
*Halicz/Halych (Galicia)
*Konigsberg or Memel? Reval?

Input most definitely appreciated.

Other serious proposals on table:
* Normans (replace Kingdom of Sicily, start with armies in Normandy and S. Italy)?
* Something where Prussia is? (Teutonic Order -> Prussia?) yes, but could be more like these teutonic order-> prussia -> brandenburg -> kingdom of prussia -> german empire
* Split Norse into Sweden and Denmark?

Note: HRE is not a civ (and we have civs for Germany and Austria) but a title which can be earned in game, possibly awarded by the AP.

There are numerous notes in the RoE Development Thread on page 4 regarding countries included in the list.

Thoughts or comments appreciated. Also mention if you *like* something or the list as a whole. Keep in mind that our estimate on the number of civs we can have is ~23, including Independent. (If you have suggestions for civ name transitions, please make them. I don't pretend to know your country's history better than you do).

Something else to keep in mind is dynamic names and name transition dates are less important right now than the content of the list as a whole. Ie, if you want to read Austrasia -> East Francia -> German Kingdom... as "Germany", that's fine for now. (It just seems pointless to lose all that data and list it without it).[Austria/House of Habsburg (1160 AD or 1280 AD) and at 1850 autrian-hungarian empire if austria conquer hungary and bohemia (prague)
* Something where Prussia is? (Teutonic Order -> Prussia?) yes, but could be more like these teutonic order-> prussia -> brandenburg -> kingdom of prussia -> german empire/QUOTE]
 
Welcome!
As you might not know, the mod has progressed much since that 2year old post, so this is not the current civ list
To your point, Nederland may start at war with any of Spain, France, Burgundy or HRE.
 
Welcome!
As you might not know, the mod has progressed much since that 2year old post, so this is not the current civ list
To your point, Nederland may start at war with any of Spain, France, Burgundy or HRE.

Like you said, he's quoting from the first post of this thread which is now on it's 99th. page and 1970'th. post. This really has got to be the world record of thread-bumping or at least post-bumping. Amazing!:lol:
 
Like you said, he's quoting from the first post of this thread which is now on it's 99th. page and 1970'th. post. This really has got to be the world record of thread-bumping or at least post-bumping. Amazing!:lol:

Even 2 thread's (who are more than a year old) in 1 week are bumped up. I think that's a record too.:lol:
 
You are being too harsh to him. The fact he made 400 posts means he contributed quite much (if you mean whom I think you do).
 
Thanks! :p
 
Has anyone played Poland lately? I'll probably try to do a game shooting for their UHVs, but it would be good to have a second opinion. Under the AI they typically become too powerful, so my default opinion is that they should be weakened.
 
Has anyone played Poland lately? I'll probably try to do a game shooting for their UHVs, but it would be good to have a second opinion. Under the AI they typically become too powerful, so my default opinion is that they should be weakened.

I've found the 1st. Polish UHV very difficult for the human player as it's hard to beat the Arab, Byzantine and Russian population in time, even though the AI sometimes gets it. Funny that the Arabs don't seem to count for the Hungarian UHV as I've had the largest territory in Europe except for the Arabs and it still counted. See my latest Hungary game on the Bugs thread where I've reported several UHV problems.
 
Anyway, I will attempt a bit tweaking on Poland, and post a 'before and after' in an hour or so.
 
I'm going to respond to your post here.

And as said in the Civ Discussion thread , here is the before-and-after (t)weaking Poland.
The result was 14 cities v 10, but may the sample is not enough.

Also included are some other screenies

1. Kinda nice is the Bavarian variant occuring when the barbs raze Frankfurt after Augsburg flips. (tho kinda sad that didnt last for more that 30 turns :cry: )
3. I hope that Burgundy looks more realistic.
4. Devoted to Edelbroy (that guy who sued for playable and indy Aragon)

Gamewise: Germany is strong if survives, Arabia and Cordoba collapsed in both cases. I think Kiev survived in the first game.

What parameters did you try changing?

I'd like to outline the "story" of Poland. Bear with me -- it's not a bit of history I'm very familiar with. I'm just thinking out loud.

970 - 1140: A relatively large Poland is established. Capitol gets moved to Krakow.
1140 - 1320: Internal divisions fragment Poland. Conflicts with neighbors (especially the Teutonic Order) and attacks by Tartars/Mongols are serious threats.
1320 - 1700: Re-establishment of a large Poland through conquest and union with Lithuania. Peak reached around 1500. Establishment of folwarks. Battles with Teutonic Order, Turks, and Moscow. Golden Age of Poland. Warsaw becomes capitol in 1600.
1700 - 1800: Decline and partition by neighbors, particularly Sweden, Germany (Prussia), Austria and Moscow.

Now, our UHVs are:
Be the most populous country in Europe in 1540AD.
Never lose a city before 1600AD.
Be the Catholic nation with most Faith Points in 1730AD.

These are all later objectives, leaving one rather directionless at the start. That's not necessarily bad -- it's okay to have some Civs like that. The only battles forced upon you are probably with a few Mongols who make it that far. The neighbors aren't likely to pose much of a threat -- Moscow's just too far away, and the Swedish AI certainly isn't going to launch a worthwhile amphibious attack. That leaves Germany and Austria. If they were strengthened it might help. Otherwise there's probably enough space for you to become the largest Civ quite peacefully while building up your faith points.

We can't (typically) model the 1140-1320 period of division very well. We can do external shocks (typically barbarians or new civs), but this was mostly an internal affair. Fine, but if Poland can reach the historically appropriate size by 1150 (which it basically can, starting out with a flipped city and three settlers), then it's just going to keep growing. The "Never lose a city" condition is a useful check on the human. If we spawn some Tartars near the eastern border with Poland, that could force you not to over-expand. Do the current Mongols ever get close enough to really threaten Poland?

Possible ideas:

Move Polish start to 1320ish.
Use RFCEBalance to weaken Poland generically.
Start Poland with less tech/troops.
Increase Barbarian pressure
Strengthen neighbors.
 
Possible ideas:

Move Polish start to 1320ish.
Use RFCEBalance to weaken Poland generically.
Start Poland with less tech/troops.
Increase Barbarian pressure
Strengthen neighbors.

The second one: Moved Population growth from 100 to 140 and also increased a bit unit building (to 150)

If it is okay, I will post the experimental changes to the SVN (along with a bit of city name map changes, i.e ues, oes)
 
Back
Top Bottom