Rhye's of Europe Civ Discussion Thread

[merijn_v1]

3 rice. One NE of Valencia, one near Alexandria, and one in N. Italy, all after 1000AD.

Damn!!! Now I only get €500 instead of €16000.

 

[jessiecat]

Damn!!! Now I only get €500 instead of €16000.

Eh????

 

[micbic]

The Denia tile was moved finally 1 SE of previous Valencia location, as 1 E would mean Valencia would have no access to the sea
EDIT: 500th post!!!

 

[Michael Vick]

Ok, but I don't know about the olive being there. I believe that Spain should have that third olive, but now I feel that they're bunched up in the East too much. The Jaen area (North of Granada) is definitely the most important olive location, so that one needs to stay. The problem is there is now another olives resource relatively close to it where as there isn't a single resource West of Cordoba. Somebody suggest something plz

Lonja de la Seda?? I don't remember ever saying anything about that.. It's ok though, I'm all for the addition of any new wonder anywhere. A point I'd like to make is that if it was the most important silk exchange in Western Europe then why would the Marco Polo's Embassy give silk and not the Lonja?

However, many people have probably never heard of the Lonja de la Seda, and I think if we're gonna give Spain another wonder there are probably a couple of better candidates. I did once suggest the Torre del Oro, in fact maybe that's what you confused the Lonja with, jessiecat- "Tower of Gold", "Exchange of Silk", it's all the same

There's also the Cathedral of Seville. It was the largest Cathedral in the world for more than a hundred years.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torre_Del_Oro
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cathedral_of_Seville

 

[jessiecat]

So maybe it wasn't you who suggested it. Maybe it was Jedi. And yes even I know the difference between "Tower" and "Exchange" in Spanish. And I have visited both places, Thanks anyway, Michael.

 

[st.lucifer]

I'm going to continue to vote against the inclusion of further Iberian wonders. We've got a lot of them, and you could argue for the inclusion of any of hundreds of magnificent buildings across Europe.

All of the buildings mentioned are spectacular, but so are Chartres Cathedral, Malbork Castle, Westminster Abbey, and many, many more.

We've got a lot of wonders and a ton of colonial projects, so there's no shortage of expensive things to build. I'm not totally opposed to adding more stuff, but I worry that we might end up a little overstuffed, if we aren't there already.

 

[jessiecat]

I'm going to continue to vote against the inclusion of further Iberian wonders. We've got a lot of them, and you could argue for the inclusion of any of hundreds of magnificent buildings across Europe.

All of the buildings mentioned are spectacular, but so are Chartres Cathedral, Malbork Castle, Westminster Abbey, and many, many more.

We've got a lot of wonders and a ton of colonial projects, so there's no shortage of expensive things to build. I'm not totally opposed to adding more stuff, but I worry that we might end up a little overstuffed, if we aren't there already.

In recent discussions the consensus was to add the Tower of London as a National Wonder (replaces Scotland Yard) and the Amsterdam Stock Exchange (replaces Wall Street) as a World Wonder. Others like Westminster Abbey and Buda Castle were suggested too. But, I agree that Iberia is already over-represented in wonders, as is France and Italy. Other areas like Central Europe may not be though. So my vote would be to add the two I mentioned above for now and definitely no more colonies.

 

[st.lucifer]

In recent discussions the consensus was to add the Tower of London as a National Wonder (replaces Scotland Yard) and the Amsterdam Stock Exchange (replaces Wall Street) as a World Wonder. Others like Westminster Abbey and Buda Castle were suggested too. But, I agree that Iberia is already over-represented in wonders, as is France and Italy. Other areas like Central Europe may not be though. So my vote would be to add the two I mentioned above for now and definitely no more colonies.

Good call. As fun as it was to build all of the projects, we should probably shrink the number of colonies a bit too - there's just too much wealth and production floating around in the late game. In my Genoan game, I was able to take Tangier and build every single colonial project (until I hit the 3rd victory condition, after which I stopped), using just four or five cities (Palermo, Genoa, Milano, Firenze, and Ajacco (? something in Sardinia). It wouldn't be difficult to do the same thing with Burgundy, France, England, or Spain.

 

[micbic]

I recall someone, on another post, stating that Charles V is a wrong choice for Burgundy. This guy was right, as Charles V was indeed a member of a Valois House, but reigned at France, not at Burgundy. I propose Phillip the Bold as his replacement (just change the name, not the LH)

 

[jessiecat]

I recall someone, on another post, stating that Charles V is a wrong choice for Burgundy. This guy was right, as Charles V was indeed a member of a Valois House, but reigned at France, not at Burgundy. I propose Phillip the Bold as his replacement (just change the name, not the LH)

I agree with that. Just changing the name is the easiest solution.

 

[merijn_v1]

I'll do that. Now I'm an expert in XML modding, it shouldn't be hard.

 

[The Turk]

Where can we install the latest version of this game, and what is the latest version?

 

[merijn_v1]

Where can we install the latest version of this game, and what is the latest version?

Find: RFCEurope Files 1st post. (al usual) Newest version: alpha 6
Instal: program files/faraxis games/civ4/beyond the sword/mods (as usual)

And please don't ask this again.

 

[Wessel V1]

The newest version is micbic's 6.1 version, somewhere on the last page or the page before that. St. Lucifer has released a new map, which is some posts after that.

 

[micbic]

Also, merijn has put in the RFCE: Civilopedia thread a new version of XML files with more updated civilopedia

 

[Omega124]

I EXRTREMLY disapprove with Saladin's favorite civic be Theology. This is very wrong in a number of ways. For one, he never prosecuted Jews or Christians for no reason (Though Muslims did have special privileges, like able to serve in the military). Secondly, he was able to negotiate a safe pilgrimage to Jerusalem, effectively ending the Third Crusade. Putting Theology as his favorite civic is in a way completely disregarding almost all of his achievements, including one of the few Muslims honored by medieval Europe.

Also, I think the extra Civ spot can be achieved by simply either making the kingdoms of Scotland or Aragon playable (Or just add a few more by making a larger DDL). I do not like how France is split into two main civs while England and Spain are just one main civ with just a lot of independents around. Both kingdoms were, at their time, powerful. Big want on Scotland, though. Scotland was a very important back in it's day, and resisted many wars by England for unification until the union act of 1707.

 

[st.lucifer]

I EXRTREMLY disapprove with Saladin's favorite civic be Theology. This is very wrong in a number of ways. For one, he never prosecuted Jews or Christians for no reason (Though Muslims did have special privileges, like able to serve in the military). Secondly, he was able to negotiate a safe pilgrimage to Jerusalem, effectively ending the Third Crusade. Putting Theology as his favorite civic is in a way completely disregarding almost all of his achievements, including one of the few Muslims honored by medieval Europe.

Perhaps you could suggest a different favorite civic. We are not demonizing Saladin - we're increasing the likelihood that the game will play out historically by providing another point of conflict between Arabia and its rival civs.

Also, I think the extra Civ spot can be achieved by simply either making the kingdoms of Scotland or Aragon playable (Or just add a few more by making a larger DDL). I do not like how France is split into two main civs while England and Spain are just one main civ with just a lot of independents around. Both kingdoms were, at their time, powerful. Big want on Scotland, though. Scotland was a very important back in it's day, and resisted many wars by England for unification until the union act of 1707.

Have you played a game all the way through? Notice how it's a bit slow at the end, and crashes to desktop semi-regularly as you scroll from side to side? Adding more civs makes this problem considerably worse.

When proposing additional civs (especially to a mod which has repeatedly said that the civ list is closed), please consider the following criteria:

1. Is there geographic space for the proposed civ? Scotland has 2-3 productive city sites, and never controlled any territory outside of, well, Scotland. Which is small.
There are already 3 civs on the Iberian peninsula, 1 more than France, 1 more than Italy, 2 more than Germany. Adding Aragon would crowd this further.

2. Are there compelling historical reasons to add the proposed civ? Importance is relative. You describe Scotland as 'very important back in it's day', which was...when? How long was the period of 'importance', or relevance? What were the major cultural achievements, buildings, territorial gains that the civ achieved in its period of dominance?

3. Does the addition of the proposed civ balance an intractable problem, or fill a geopolitical void? Right now, the weakest part of the map in terms of both civ numbers and things to do is Russia. There are good arguments to be made for the addition of a second civ such as Novgorod or the Golden Horde, both for geopolitical balance, challenge in gameplay, and historical reasons.

4. Has the proposed civ been proposed and soundly rejected many, many times before? You'd have to read through lots of threads or the project wiki for that information, but let's just say that the world does not lack for proud and angry Scotsmen.

Thanks for your feedback.

 

[The Turk]

Perhaps you could suggest a different favorite civic. We are not demonizing Saladin - we're increasing the likelihood that the game will play out historically by providing another point of conflict between Arabia and its rival civs.

Well technically up until the collapse of the Ottoman Emprie all religions were tolerated so having Theology as a favourite civ does not corrospond to any Arabian Kindom/Empire at that time. And I still feel that RFC Europe STILL does not show enough of the greatness of the Islamic Empires, even though the game does give them a research boost intially I still don't feel it adds up at all, in fact I think there should be colonial projects which Arabia can construct such as the conquest of Central Asia and India.

Besides the points I made above these are a few problems I found while playing:

1. What the heck happend to the Mongol invasion!?!? There should be a little text box that comes up saying that horseman are pouring out of Transoxania (central asia) and entering the Russian steppes burning everything in there wake! ie the Medival II Mongol invasion video . It should be the first thing that comes up when you think of "Barbarian invasions" during the medival era. Also another invasion should be the Timurds that should crush the ottomans and arabians in the Middle East.

2. When playing as Arabia, how come is almost impossible to invade Spain when techinically the Umayyad Caliphate conqueared there way up all the way to Tours in France, what should happen is when the Caliphate of Cordoba spawns it should flip all the Arabian cities in the Iberian Peninusla and maybe one in N. Africa, because right not with Al-Andalus coming with pretty much no Arabs even close by is very un historical, (think back to RFC UHV of conquering Spain)

3. When playing as the Turks (which I enjoyed quite a bit ) it bothered me to no end that the capital for them was Ankara!? first off Ankara is situated in the north of the country not smack in the middle, not to mention the Ottomans led by Osman set up there first capital in Sogut (think back to RFC again) which is a lot more historically correct since Ankara was NEVER the capital of for the Ottomans, for more information look here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osman_I.

4. While looking at the tech tree I noticed it said first to discover this technology will find Orthodox Christianity, which I found strange since there was already two Orthodox countries (Bulgaria and Byzantium), I'm just a bit conused what researching this tech actually does.

5. Out of curoisty are there settler maps for RFC Europe like there are for normal RFC because as playing the Venetians I found it confusing where I should settle my cities and which areas to avoid, so could you guys maybe whip us some of these maps or tell me where I can find them.

6. Something else that kept bothering me was the Civic option picutres which continued to bother me due to the fact that they are still the vanilla civic pictures so merchant republic has the sign of Enviromentalism. A place you guys can look at is Zappara's Rise of Mankind, he has some Medival looking civic pictures which you guys can use.

Overall though I think you guys are f***ing beasts when it comes to modding. I remember 2 summers ago looking at this forum and not seeing much being done, but now as I look at the work thats been done its really incredible and I really have to hand it to you for only an alpha version this mod already rocks. Keep up the good work the entire RFC fan group is rooting you guys on

 

[jessiecat]

I won't attempt to answer all your points but here's a few thoughts in response.
As one of those few left from the early days of development (only me and st. lucifer left now) I've been the only person pushing for strong Muslim civs from the start. Its been an uphill struggle to convince people how important they should be from the start of this mod. You and I might appreciate how more advanced than anyone else in Europe they were. But I accept that this a European mod with 20 civs and it has to be balanced so all civs are playable.
If we closely followed an accurate historical model, the Arabs and Cordobans would be so far ahead in science, culture, military and health that no other civ could catch up. That would be more true to history but ruin this mod as a game. I'm sure you realize that. I'm not happy yet with the balance we have achieved, particularly with the Cordobans who have so badly nerfed by a poor tech rate and foriegn instability that they bear no resemblance to the highly advanced civilisation they were in the 9thC-11thC.
And the Cordoban start is so weak they never really have a chance to conquer Iberia before the Spanish spawn. They should flip Valencia, Cadiz and Toledo and at least 2 cities in Morocco at the start and have a few troops in Iberia. I've suggested that but nobody agrees with me (except you maybe?).
The Arabs too have been crippled by being Orthodox from the start even though they found Islam, a bit of historical nonsense I hope one of our modders can sort out very soon. They also should flip Alexandria with an army of 4-5 Ghazi cavalry in order to give them a head start in conquering North Africa. But again, nobody else will agree with me on that, I'm afraid.

As to your other points:
There are settler and UHV maps in the Reference folder of RFC Europe.
The tech which allows you to found Orthodoxy when its already founded at the start is a bug.
I'm not sure what you mean about the barbs. We've already got Mongol and Seljuk invasions. And there should be a separate Mongol invasion of the Middle East about 50 years after the Ottomans spawn. Should there be more?
I totally agree about Ankara. It should be Sogut.
The buttons and graphics for the civics should be improved. Agreed.

 

[micbic]

There are settler and UHV maps in the Reference folder of RFC Europe.

The Turk is right, they have been left out of this version.