RiFME development thread

[Deon]

Actually I think that after I switch to 2d leaderheads I'd stick to more "canon" ones.

Galadriel is a questionable character. She's in a head of Lorien but of a Noldor bloodline. I'd try to avoid her anywhere but scenarios which mean later ages. For now this mod is supposed to be able to simulate any of The Years of the Sun, and tech tree includes the creation of The One Ring by Sauron (effectively spawning a hero unit with the One Ring item, which acts like Pieces of Barnaxus with some boni and mali). Sauron is supposed to give "empower I-V" to Nazgul units which are strong national units but cannot gain XP by themselves, much like golems, but have 3 tech levels (ringwraith (melee) -> black rider (mounted) -> nazgul (flying mounted); I have graphics for first 2 types).

 

[Deon]

Here's a preliminary sketch for the early tech tree, without early magic/religion shaeningans.

Tech tree
A few comments: I originally planned to make Mathematics to require Writing AND Construction, this is why it's orange (I tried to keep specific color schemes for techs but lost the idea somewhere in between). But it looks like there's too many "scientific" things with it, and LOTR was more about fantasy than progress. Thus I plan to place "Scholarship" in the place of Mathematics and make the only requirement - writing. It will be the "advanced scientific" tech while being fantasy-ish enough, and it will allow to use any advanced + buildings we want while leaving a place for sages/scholars and magic-oriented heroes.

Sailing requires fishing AND woodworking (well, you need wood for ships...)

Improvements
As I told, there're 3 kinds of improvements: agriculture, nature and industry- related.

Example :
Farm, Tree Farm and Mushroom farm for flatland/forest/hills.
Workshop, Lumbermill, Mine for flatland/forest/hills
Cottage->hamlet->village->town, Tree house-> tree hamlet->tree village->forest town, Burrows->Grotto->Living Caverns->Cave Town.

Every race is supposed to have an affinity for a certain type of improvement.

Unit tiers
Metal casting, Archery and Horseback riding are all tier-3 techs and allow a new unit type.

I think I will go with a "rounded" swordsman with some city attack bonus, a "less att/more def" archer with a city defence bonus and a horseman with movement bonus.

Culture
All lvl 1 techs are supposed to give a chance to expand a culture, meaning an influence of some kind. The most effective one is Traditions, which allows Wayshrine (+3 ); Crafting allows a Craftsman Workshop (+1 +1 ), farming allows a Tavern (+1 +1 ); Hunting allows a Sheriff's Office (+2 ; +10% defence bonus); Forestry allows a Park (+2 ; +1 ).

 

[Sephi]

Luthien most likely has never been in middle earth. She pretty much lived in a parallel universe (though Sauron has been there too). And when the Ring was crafted Luthien was already long dead.

Yeah, Galadriel is no Sindar, but Sauron is no Orc either . She is by far the most powerful of all Sindar Leaders in Middleearth.

But do whatever you think is most suited, I can still modmodmodmod it so that the Sindar Leaders are those that have the elven Rings of Powers

 

[black_imperator]

for Sindar leaders, you have Thingol or Thranduil. if you want a female leader , Melian would be best.

What i'd like to know is which period you intend to make.


Edit: i also forgot Celeborn of course. on a unrelated note, Elrond has Sindar ancesters ( actually he has ancesters from almost any important family tree of the first age either human or elf)

 

[Deon]

Actually I thought about Cerdiwen, Thingol and Celeborn as major elven leaders. At least I can write long pedia entries for them .

OK, Sephi, I will include Galadriel especially for you. Also because originally I planned a campaign set in the 3rd age, she should be really handy.
It's easy to include another leader, at any time.

Also after the main frame is set up, I plan to divide elves on houses, thus there should be Feanor and others .

 

[MagisterCultuum]

Why would the goddess of dimensional magic be an elven leader?

 

[Deon]

Hahaha, MC, I have to sleep . I meant Cirdan, Cirdan the Shipwright. FFH lore rooted in my brain, and now I use fictional names instead of other fictional names.

Well, at least it attracted MagisterCaltuum to my thread. Any thread needs a MC post .

 

[Ajidica]

Out of curiosity, what age does the mod start in? If you haven't decided yet, I would reccomend the fourth age. Basicaly due to a rebellion the Reunited Kingdom has split into the RK and Adunabar (they believe the line of Elessar has failed and they need to return to the line of Elendil. In addition the Shadow Cult is spreading and Rohan and Gondor are nearly at war). There is an excellent Rome Total War mod of it. This way you wouldn't have to worry about making it conform exactly to the lore. Here is a link to the RTW mod:
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=89

 

[Deon]

Thanks for the info, and it's really useful.

This mod is not supposed to start at any age, despite of the fact that it's suited for the Years of the Sun; so there will be the bunch of leaders from all the 3 ages, also if you start from the beginning it should be possible to create the One ring and recieve the Sauron world unit as Mordor.

Possible scenarios is another thing. I want to make this mod as "base" and develop scenarios in different ages later, including the War of the Jewels, the battle of the One ring and other possible situations, maybe even quests.

If you play a "gauntlet" mode, basically the "play now" or "custom game", it should feel as if you develop the nations from the beginning of the 1st age.

For Mordor (tech-wise) it would be: researching Corruption -> completing Rings of Power ritual -> completing The One Ring (recieving Sauron unit with The One Ring equipment similar to Pieces of Barnaxus -> completing wonder Barad-Dur -> recieve Ringwraiths).

 

[Ajidica]

I just wanted to point out the Fourth Age. Its one of the most interesting ages and everyone seems to forget about it. Good luck with the mod.

 

[Nor'easter]

I just wanted to point out the Fourth Age. Its one of the most interesting ages and everyone seems to forget about it. Good luck with the mod.

Did Tolkien himself write anything about the Fourth Age (other than in the Appendices to the Lord of the Rings)? Or is it just fan fiction?

 

[Avahz Darkwood]

Sounds fun!!!

 

[Avahz Darkwood]

Hahaha, MC, I have to sleep . I meant Cirdan, Cirdan the Shipwright. FFH lore rooted in my brain, and now I use fictional names instead of other fictional names.

Well, at least it attracted MagisterCaltuum to my thread. Any thread needs a MC post .

Heh you haven't made it until MC and [to_xp]Gekko have commented on your mod. Oh and be careful you misspelled MC name (unless you do it on purpose like I do )

 

[Deon]

I cast summon MagisterCaltuum!!!

That pretty much explains the situation, I thought it's some kind of a ritual.
Sorry MC if it was insulting, it wasn't meant to be .

 

[cfkane]

I don't like the 3D leaderheads though I must say. I think 2D leaderheads in the style of FFH would be far better quality. It kind of ruins the emersion to have a diplomacy screen pop up and think ''Oh look its a badly reskinned Elizabeth''.

Ouch.

 

[Deon]

No cfkane, it's a good job. Don't consider a single opinion to be "right" .

 

[Boshi]

Some ideas:
-Maybe give the evil civs an overall power edge but then give the good civs some late game advantages (maybe ones allowing them to build very powerful national units, those would work better than heroes since the AI is very bad at using heroes) to allow them to stage a comeback in the later game. Good making a strong last stand when all seems lost against the massive hordes of evil seems very in keeping with Middle Earth.
-In order to preserve wilderness possibly consider boosting the amount of a population hit a conquered city takes so that even fairly decent-sized cities can get razed when conquered. Possibly put in a trait for a lot of evil civilizations that makes them raze pretty much all good cities they conquer but get some nice benefits for doing so rather than having a captured city (golden ages, lots and lots of money, fortresses spawning, etc. etc. etc.). In Middle Earth you don't see a lot more burning and slaughter than conquest, so how about maintaining wilderness through upping the burning and slaughtering and making conquering a city intact very very hard. I would like to see a war in which both sides are left with only a few cities standing and bit swaths of wilderness where cities used to stand. Also definitely make the barb AI raze instead of capture cities in most cases (maybe something along the lines of IF dragon captures city THEN raze city and spawn dragon lair IF non-dwarf civ captures dragon lore then they get a lot of gold IF dwarf civilization captures dragon lair that used to be a dwarf city THEN spawn size 1 dwarf city with gold producing building, something like that). Basically make good be good at building up cities but have weak defenses, have evil be bad at building lots and lots of cities but be very very good at razing cities.
-Incorporate some means for tech to be lost, Middle Earth doesn't really have a feeling of progress, more the fall from a golden age.

 

[Ajidica]

I was looking at your civ list and have a few ideas to elaborate it (and remove some oddities)
1>Saruman should be Lawful Neutral with a possibilty to go evil. Saruman was part of the White Council.
2>Gondor should be ruled by either Denethor II (books), Ecthelion, or Elendil the Tall. If you insist on Aragorn, use his Elfish name, Elessar Telcontar. (I forget what Elessar means but Telcontar is Strider)
3> Add in Angmar in the north and the Dunedain Rangers. Aragorn would make a better leader up their.
4>Split the elves into Silvan(Mirkwood and Lothlorien) and Sindar(Imladris and the Grey Havens). The Silvan should be better late game as they haven't seen the light of the trees in the Undying Lands and have no desire to return.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

I forget what Elessar means

It means "Elf-stone," a reference to the famous green jewel that Galadriel gave as a gift to Aragorn just before the Fellowship of the Ring lefts the wood of Lothlórien. (Although in Galadriel's possession, it technically belonged to Arwen and was a wedding gift from the family of the bride to her groom.) It was also known as the Stone of Eärendil, as the gem was set in a silver eagle-shaped brooch that had been worn by Eärendil on his quests. It had been made by Enerdhil, the greatest Noldor smith since Fëanor, and trapped the light of the sun much like the Silmarils had trapped the light of the two trees. (Actually Tolkien was inconsistent; in some versions it had been made by Fëanor or Celebrimbor.) It gave the wearer the ability to heal with a touch, and burnt or withered things viewed through the gem appeared as they had at their most beautiful. The Elfstone symbolized the ability to restore that which had been laid waste to its former glory.

 

[Deon]

Thank you, MC.

Ajidica: I make multiple leaders for each civilization and all your ideas from the 2nd post are already there.

I like the idea of a city being razed to a dark citadel or something like that by dark forces, it would definitely limit the expansion.