Right of Passage Raping

[Ansar]

How big are the implications for doing this trick?
(what are the consequences)

I know that you get a trashed rep, but what is trashed now (besides making a ROP with other civilizations)?

Also, let's say the civ I'm going to ROP-rape only knows one other civ. If I ROP-rape one of them, and then the other meets the rest of the world, will the rest of the world believe the civ that knows I commited ROP-rape or will my evil deed stay under the covers?

 

[vmxa]

Yes they will know, any that the nation mets, will know. Anyway, best to learn to get by without it,

 

[Ansar]

Yes they will know, any that the nation mets, will know. Anyway, best to learn to get by without it,

vmxa, you didn't answer my other question.

Is it only the Right of Passage that I will not be able make after that?

 

[TheOverseer714]

Peace treaties cost more. Also harder to bring them to the peace table, they reject contact longer. Anecdotally, it also seems that you are more likely to be dogpiled. It's not quite as bad as using nukes, but it can make your game harder. Unless it is always war, then it means nothing.

 

[Othniel]

Here's a linky to some surrounding discussion on Rop Rapes.

However that link, AFAIK, doesn't describe the consequences of an Rop Rape.

The traditional consequences for RoP Rape where there is an explicit ROP agreement signed is that signing future ROPs will be much more difficult/impossible. AI attitude toward you will also take a hit. Of course if you are doing ROP rapes, attitude probably is irrelevant to you.

 

[Flak509]

Its a dirty trick but i have used it a few times, tho after it NOBODY will make another ROP with you again so be aware of that

 

[Lord Emsworth]

There are means and ways to do no rep-hit RoP rapes. The only thing that you need to do is to make the AI DoW you, while it is your turn. And that can be done via failed espionage missions, or pillaged trade routes.

 

[Ansar]

There are means and ways to do no rep-hit RoP rapes. The only thing that you need to do is to make the AI DoW you, while it is your turn. And that can be done via failed espionage missions, or pillaged trade routes.

Interesting, thanks!

You seem to be very good with coming up with these exploits.


Anyways, I ended up doing what vmxa said and played my way without ROP-raping.
A bit tougher, but you can't rely on cheap tricks.

 

[Flak509]

There are means and ways to do no rep-hit RoP rapes. The only thing that you need to do is to make the AI DoW you, while it is your turn. And that can be done via failed espionage missions, or pillaged trade routes.

I didnt think of that...how sneaky i love it

 

[Xethorsiph]

Do failed espionage missions hurt your rep also? And if you have a deal with someone and your failed espionage triggers a war, will you take a rep hit?

 

[Lord Emsworth]

Do failed espionage missions hurt your rep also? And if you have a deal with someone and your failed espionage triggers a war, will you take a rep hit?

Neither of those. Attitude suffers a little though, and you don't get War Happyness (no side does), but that is it. The biggest danger is rather that you might sink a whole lot of cash into a black hole of forgiveness and patience.

 

[Bucephalus]

I think that there would be wider implications if you are paying gpt/lux for your ROP, or if they paid lump-sum gold; in that case I believe you would lose your trading rep also.

 

[Optional]

Bucephalus, RoP rep and Trade rep are more connected anyway. There's an article in the War Academy by Microbe that explicitly states that it's seperate, but it's not.
I did a little test on a gamesave myself a while ago. In this save I was able to buy Monarchy from some civ for a lump sum and some gpt. Then, for the test, I signed an RoP with another civ and attacked them. Then I checked whether I could still do that Monarchy deal, involving gpt. I couldn't. The civ in question would 'never consider' it.

 

[Spoonwood]

Neither of those. Attitude suffers a little though, and you don't get War Happyness (no side does), but that is it. The biggest danger is rather that you might sink a whole lot of cash into a black hole of forgiveness and patience.

Make outrageous demands until they get to Furious then attempt your failure of an espionage mission... such as unsafely trying to steal a tech when you have a tech lead.

 

[Puppeteer]

RoP Rape pretty much prevents you from making any per-turn deals (gold per-turn, RoP or resources...like resources on another continent required for you space ship?). You might be able to do per-turn for per-turn (gpt for a resource, perhaps), but you won't be able to buy a tech for gpt later on. On higher levels you can often live or die via tech brokering, so your reputation is important to be protected.

However, if you wipe out all civs that knew of the RoP rape before they contact other civs your reputation is clean.

Say you are A on a starting island with B. If you RoP rape B, wipe them off the map before they contact other civs and don't have AI restarts enabled your rep will be clean.

But if you're A on a continent with civs B and C and RoP rape B you'll have to wipe out both B and C (assuming they know each other or will meet each other--a near certainty with galleys) before they meet any off-continent civs.

Note that seafaring C3C civs and the Great Lighthouse makes AIs find each other across islands and continents sooner, so it's hard to pull this off successfully.

So if you're going to RoP rape do it early and devastatingly quickly or do it late to topple your strongest foe.

By the way, AI civs can and will RoP rape you, too.

Also, if your rep is trashed you can still sometimes manage gpt deals in a peace settlement. I've read succession games where they trashed their rep but were able to still buy techs with gpt during peace (re-)negotiations. But you have a lot more flexibility and a relative discount if you don't trash your rep in the first place.

 

[PaperBeetle]

Its a dirty trick but i have used it a few times, tho after it NOBODY will make another ROP with you again so be aware of that

It often isn't that severe. The penalty is just a large decrease in the value of your ROP. When your ROP rep is clean, the AI values your tiles equally to its own, so it will pay you for ROP if you have larger area, and if it has the larger area, then it charges you for ROP. Once it knows you raped a ROP, it values your tiles far less than its own. But so what? If your game plan is to use ROP rapes to get a fast military victory, then you should be happy to pay extortionate gpt in order to get that next ROP. Being able to eliminate your victim in a single turn is a hugely valuable strategic asset, so you should be prepared to pay top dollar for it. And after all, you are only going to be making those payments for a couple of turns anyway.

 

[Chamnix]

Typically when I'm about to abuse my RoP with someone, I sign RoPs with everyone else immediately before the attack. That way I still have 20 turns to abuse my RoPs with others before they can cancel the deals .

 

[Aabraxan]

Typically when I'm about to abuse my RoP with someone, I sign RoPs with everyone else immediately before the attack. That way I still have 20 turns to abuse my RoPs with others before they can cancel the deals .

Wow. And I thought I was dastardly. to you, Chamnix.

 

[Jrod the great]

yes the rest of the world will think that

 

[kulade]

WTH, when did it start being called "raping?"