Ring of Protection

[much2much]

Ring of Flames is broken and will be changed next version.

Fireballs and the ability to cause collateral damage from a spell which can be produced every round is very powerful.

How about a Ring of Protection spell? It doesn't really need to be a Ring. But it gives resistance of a certain type to all units in its tile.

 

[hegemonkhan]

Ring of Flames is broken and will be changed next version.

Fireballs and the ability to cause collateral damage from a spell which can be produced every round is very powerful.

How about a Ring of Protection spell? It doesn't really need to be a Ring. But it gives resistance of a certain type to all units in its tile.

ya a protection from colateral damage would be nice. though spell and promotions are a bit much defending against for example fire damage. but different spells to protect from colateral damage of each damage type would be cool (type of defensive colateral that instead of doing colateral damage it does colateral protection)

though stone skin spell already does this though, m2m

does stone skin spell protect from any type of hit 3 times or is it jsut phys?

if, its just phys, than a ggreat idea for new spells would be stone skin type spells for each damage type to protect against colateral damage of that type.

having one unit with magic res and fire resistance doesnt help ur stack when a fireball does colateral to the units anyways....u'd need every unit having magic resistance and fire resistance...there needs to be spells to protect against the colateral of these new type of damage.

I don't think we need spells to protect against each damage type we already have such means with promotions.

however, now there the different damage types: phys, cold, lightning, fire, poision, etc. but some of these ALSO do colateral.

 

[Grey Fox]

It would be nice with a Magic version of stone skin, to protect against 1 spell or something.

 

[loki1232]

Probably for a metamagic spell.

 

[hegemonkhan]

Probably for a metamagic spell.

I don't mind if such spells are gonna come in later versions/phases either as new spells for old magic types or as spells for the new magic types, but I strongly feel the game needs some kind of defense against magical colateral damage or else stacks will become extinct...some thing that civ4 tried to do with colateral damage with catipults so the dreaded SOD of earlier civs was nerfed....but now ffh2 with magic is making the stack go extinct and I'm actually missing the prowess large stack of combat units used to have..magic has made stacks of combat units useless now....until we get spells to protect stacks against ranged colateral magical damage from spells.

There is also no protection against a catipults phys colateral damage in both ffh2 (except possible stone skin) and civ4 but at least the catipult's colateral damage wasnt ranged..so all u had to do was not end ur turn of your army stack next to a stack of catipults

About stone skin spell...im still unclear about it..I know it blocks 3 hits..but does it block three hits on only that unit or any 3 hits on the entire stack of units?

Also does it block any types of 3 hits or just phys damage?

 

[Kael]

I don't mind if such spells are gonna come in later versions/phases either as new spells for old magic types or as spells for the new magic types, but I strongly feel the game needs some kind of defense against magical colateral damage or else stacks will become extinct...some thing that civ4 tried to do with colateral damage with catipults so the dreaded SOD of earlier civs was nerfed....but now ffh2 with magic is making the stack go extinct and I'm actually missing the prowess large stack of combat units used to have..magic has made stacks of combat units useless now....until we get spells to protect stacks against ranged colateral magical damage from spells.

There is also no protection against a catipults phys colateral damage in both ffh2 (except possible stone skin) and civ4 but at least the catipult's colateral damage wasnt ranged..so all u had to do was not end ur turn of your army stack next to a stack of catipults

About stone skin spell...im still unclear about it..I know it blocks 3 hits..but does it block three hits on only that unit or any 3 hits on the entire stack of units?

Also does it block any types of 3 hits or just phys damage?

Im interested to see how the limited collateral damage effects this in 0.22. I think its going to be much better. At the very least we will want to see how it plays out before making another significant change.

 

[hegemonkhan]

Im interested to see how the limited collateral damage effects this in 0.22. I think its going to be much better. At the very least we will want to see how it plays out before making another significant change.

my bad, sorry kael n team, I completely forgot you're putting damage caps on the colateral damages of magical spells..I'm very sorry....

I have slight worries though about the caps..IIRC, i think crush was gonna have like 60% damage cap for its colateral and that was the highest I've seen (60%). My worry is that the caps may have to be lowered a bit more. 60%-50% damage to multiple units seems to me still too strong. Or, u could leave these high..but its take many more units to do/reach that cap of damage (make individual units only do like 5% damage each up to the 60% total damage cap that can be done to a stack). I feel the strongest spell at most should be 50% if not lower. But, let's of course seee how it goes first as what you've got spells as now. maybe your caps will be perfect..have too see first just saying i got some omens that the caps may need to be lower....

This "should" definately solve the problem! If it doesn't u can always add protection spells as a back up safety measure I have no idea though if it's possible programming-wise to have spells block colateral damage.

 

[Chandrasekhar]

Meh, I wouldn't mind seeing mega-stacks go extinct anyway.

 

[hegemonkhan]

Meh, I wouldn't mind seeing mega-stacks go extinct anyway.

but stacks are your combat units....I don't want melee, mounted, archery, recon etc. though to go extinct to magic units...combat and magic units should be in an eternal struggle..combat units need to HAVE a chance against magic units and their magic spells....

The stack on its own i'm certainly for nerfing from mega stacks into small tactical stacks...but usually stacks and combat units are one and the same...I don't want an army of combat units reduced to assassin "sniper" "lone wolf" units... I stil want armies (forces of combat units) to be useful.........

 

[Chandrasekhar]

but mega stacks are your combat units....I don't want melee, mounted, archery, recon etc. though to go extinct to magic units...combat and magic units should be in an eternal struggle..combat units need to HAVE a chance against magic units and their magic spells....

The stack on its own i'm certainly for nerfing..but usually stacks and combat units are one and the same...I don't want an army of combat units reduced to assassin "sniper" "lone wolf" units... I stil want armies (forces of combat units) to be useful.........

Well, then spread them out and move in several stacks.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

Could all the damage caps be put in the global defines so that it is easier for us to figure out what the caps seem to work best?

Personally I don't really like putting absolute limits on how powerful a spell could be, but that might be because I've not played multiplayer yet. Perhaps the cap should be based on a percent of the current strength, not the full strength.

 

[hegemonkhan]

Could all the damage caps be put in the global defines so that it is easier for us to figure out what the caps seem to work best?

Personally I don't really like putting absolute limits on how powerful a spell could be, but that might be because I've not played multiplayer yet. Perhaps the cap should be based on a percent of the current strength, not the full strength.

well its not fun right now having huge massive stacks completely helpless to magic spells, I DO like magic being a counter to stacks...jsut not quite so strong-effective as they are right now against stacks. the magic spells should be as support to damage the stack so your army can than finish off/win but not wipe out the stack by spells alone.

 

[TheBoatman]

Maybe there could be Metamagic I spell called Absorb Magic which would make an adept take the magical damage (even collateral) from other units. If the damage were over 100HP it would kill the adept. It would give you the time to counter-attack.

Metamagic II could be Dispel Magic (cancel all magical effects on a unit).

Metamagic III could be +50% magic resistance promotion for all units on the tile.

 

[cvlowe]

well its not fun right now having huge massive stacks completely helpless to magic spells, I DO like magic being a counter to stacks...jsut not quite so strong-effective as they are right now against stacks. the magic spells should be as support to damage the stack so your army can than finish off/win but not wipe out the stack by spells alone.

Facing huge stacks is no fun either. There needs to be a way to defend against them.

 

[hegemonkhan]

Facing huge stacks is no fun either. There needs to be a way to defend against them.

very true.. but I also dont wanna take all that time making a mass amount of combat units and having them all get taken out by like only 4 spells. You do have to make that huge stack..its not like its for free. And poeple who need to counter it shouldnt be able to do so wit only a few guys using only a few spells....thats a bit unfair as well. I think the word is...BALANCE

(right now magic is unbalanced but in .022 it should be balanced or nearly so..hopefully)

Chand: Yes if u leave all your guys in one mega stack than I have no problems if your smart opponenent uses the only counter to that, colateral damage. It's your fault for not breaking it into smaller tactical stacks.

I'm just complaining that some of the spells as of .021 are unbalanced or broken and too powerful.

 

[much2much]

Chand: Yes if u leave all your guys in one mega stack than I have no problems if your smart opponenent uses the only counter to that, colateral damage. It's your fault for not breaking it into smaller tactical stacks.

Stacks are the only logical way. If I have my uber units, lets say Stoneskin Ogres attacking the enemy capital I at least need to bombard it first if he has anything decent in it. What if its built on a narrow strip surrounded by water. A stack is the only option.

And it is a big loss even if only 1/3 of my force(assuming three stacks) is wiped out with no chance of even reducing the enemy units (ie. even catapults that withdraw can't fight hard the next round.