[R&F] Rise and Fall General Discussion Thread

[Disgustipated]

Wait, how is it Georgia is confirmed? I've been working and sleeping (and also playing SMAC up too late yesterday), and I apparently missed something. Is it because of the clue thread? That's too many pages for me to read right now, is that how we are confirming Georgia? If that's the case, strike up another one for the Wikipedia connection (though it was only an On This Day mention a few days ago).

I hope it's not Canada with a special version deleting the Cree.

How would that even be possible? You can't just give Canada a scout unit as an UU. That seems a bit silly. Hardly seem enough time to redesign a Civ at this point. Out of curiosity, what would be a good UU for Canada?

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

Wait, how is it Georgia is confirmed? I've been working and sleeping (and also playing SMAC up too late yesterday), and I apparently missed something. Is it because of the clue thread? That's too many pages for me to read right now, is that how we are confirming Georgia? If that's the case, strike up another one for the Wikipedia connection (though it was only an On This Day mention a few days ago).



How would that even be possible? You can't just give Canada a scout unit as an UU. That seems a bit silly. Hardly seem enough time to redesign a Civ at this point. Out of curiosity, what would be a good UU for Canada?

YEs, today's clues point to Georgia.

I was indicating that Canada could get their own version of R&F with Cree deleted and no replacement due to an on-going legal dispute with the Cree in Canada.

 

[SammyKhalifa]

Wait, how is it Georgia is confirmed? I've been working and sleeping (and also playing SMAC up too late yesterday), and I apparently missed something. Is it because of the clue thread? That's too many pages for me to read right now, is that how we are confirming Georgia? If that's the case, strike up another one for the Wikipedia connection (though it was only an On This Day mention a few days ago).



How would that even be possible? You can't just give Canada a scout unit as an UU. That seems a bit silly. Hardly seem enough time to redesign a Civ at this point. Out of curiosity, what would be a good UU for Canada?

Rocky&Bullwinkle "Spy" unit

 

[Leyrann]

To be fair though, the English wikipedia does have a very interesting featured article today, even if it isn't related to Georgia.

 

[Disgustipated]

Yeah I was going to mention today's Wikipedia, but it was already mentioned several pages ago. I was beat to the punch. I still think there's a high chance of Ottomans, and Wiki agrees with me.

 

[CivLuvah]

I was indicating that Canada could get their own version of R&F with Cree deleted and no replacement due to an on-going legal dispute with the Cree in Canada.

I hope that wouldn't be the case and that the controversy can settle by the time the expansion releases. I want to play the Cree

 

[nzcamel]

I really doubt it will be the case.

 

[Zaarin]

A Renaissance-era Ottomans would make sense. I can't comment on which historical period would be the best fit for the Inca though.

Credibility of the "leak" aside, I think we can probably rule out Scotland as that would likely be another medieval-focused Civ.

Considering the Inca didn't exist before or after the Renaissance, it's safe to say they'll have a Renaissance leader.

 

[Disgustipated]

I was indicating that Canada could get their own version of R&F with Cree deleted and no replacement due to an on-going legal dispute with the Cree in Canada.

And that would just cause another lawsuit for anyone who pre-ordered the game, or just complaints out of unfairness for Canadian gamers paying the same price for less content. Though I suppose they could reduce the price.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

And that would just cause another lawsuit for anyone who pre-ordered the game, or just complaints out of unfairness for Canadian gamers paying the same price for less content. Though I suppose they could reduce the price.

Or give a free DLC at a later date to make up for it.

 

[Duuk]

Or give a free DLC at a later date to make up for it.

Depending on how Cree-gate goes, I'm kind of suspecting the Cree will get commented out and everyone will get a Sioux-or-Iroquois DLC free a month or so after release.

Which is sad, because I really like the Cree mechanics. Hopefully they'd leave them in so they could be "added" as a mod.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Depending on how Cree-gate goes, I'm kind of suspecting the Cree will get commented out and everyone will get a Sioux-or-Iroquois DLC free a month or so after release.

Which is sad, because I really like the Cree mechanics. Hopefully they'd leave them in so they could be "added" as a mod.

Ironically I could see the Cree abilities with diplomatic alliances and trading go to the Iroquois with just changing the names of the abilities, unit and leader. They would also have to change a Mekewap to a Longhouse probably and get rid of the pasture bonus(due to Iroquois not being plains based) but keep the camps. Still it would be optimal if we get both.

 

[Duuk]

Yeah, converting them to Iroquois wouldn't be complicated. But the art design team would need to make a new leader, hence the month delay.

 

[Zaarin]

Yeah, converting them to Iroquois wouldn't be complicated. But the art design team would need to make a new leader, hence the month delay.

But if they're going to go to all that work, they might as well make the Iroquois as DLC for everyone--and maybe offer it free to Canadian players as a "sorry we can't give you the Cree" consolation prize. Though I'm still very doubtful the Cree will be cut for anyone.

 

[Lord Lakely]

They should absolutely not delete the Cree. A little bit of controversy/drama never hurt sales. The portrayal of Poundmaker and his Cree appears as respectful and in character as an outsider to Cree culture could've done it. If anything, keeping the Cree in would aid Firaxis as it helps their game gain a higher profile. If the devs nail the PR by engaging the dialogue with the Cree elders, this is a net win for everyone involved. This benefits the Cree elders too btw, because openly boycotting means more attention and more attention means higher sales for they've been trying to boycott. That's shooting yourself in the foot, really.

Kicking the Cree out and replacing them, however would be a really weak move and would indirectly validate a lot of the "social justice warrior/political correctness" heckling they've been getting, which is disastrous for a game as progressive as Civ VI. Sales would drop.

 

[Disgustipated]

And why not just say screw you, it's our game, we do as we want. Don't like it, make your own game portraying Europeans in a negative way (though the Cree aren't actually portrayed negatively).

I know, I know you can't really say that when you are including music and language used by the Cree in game, it is beneficial to work with them as much as possible, otherwise you'll never find anyone who can speak the language to voice act.

 

[Sagax]

But if they're going to go to all that work, they might as well make the Iroquois as DLC for everyone--and maybe offer it free to Canadian players as a "sorry we can't give you the Cree" consolation prize. Though I'm still very doubtful the Cree will be cut for anyone.

“Partially cutting” Cree is a terrible idea, especially if the ones losing them is only Canada. You’re basically saying “Here, you won’t find your culture in the version sold on your territory, but we will keep your civ in this game of misleading setup for the rest of the world. Happy?”

 

[ombak]

Is there some actual legal dispute going on though? I haven't read every post in the Cree article discussion thread so I went back for a cursory look. My understanding remains:
the leader made a statement, it was picked up by Canadian press and articles about this have highlighted an effort to exonerate Poundmaker for a treason conviction.

If it were not for the discussion at civfanatics itself I would think this would die down slowly as long as nothing stupid was done like, a poor reply, or overreacting by changing or removing the civ.

Unless I've missed a recent development (not our own speculation).

 

[Thormodr]

“Partially cutting” Cree is a terrible idea, especially if the ones losing them is only Canada. You’re basically saying “Here, you won’t find your culture in the version sold on your territory, but we will keep your civ in this game of misleading setup for the rest of the world. Happy?”

Agreed. A terrible idea.

I am very confident that things will get resolved, anyway.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Is there some actual legal dispute going on though? I haven't read every post in the Cree article discussion thread so I went back for a cursory look. My understanding remains:
the leader made a statement, it was picked up by Canadian press and articles about this have highlighted an effort to exonerate Poundmaker for a treason conviction.

If it were not for the discussion at civfanatics itself I would think this would die down slowly as long as nothing stupid was done like, a poor reply, or overreacting by changing or removing the civ.

Unless I've missed a recent development (not our own speculation).

Unless it is overreaction by a media source, there might have been mentioned that the Cree nation might take up a lawsuit against Firaxis against the portrayal and not consulting them. However it might have been blown out of proportion and by legal action it might only mean to trademark the Cree nation.