[R&F] Rise and Fall General Discussion Thread

[ombak]

Unless it is overreaction by a media source, there might have been mentioned that the Cree nation might take up a lawsuit against Firaxis against the portrayal and not consulting them. However it might have been blown out of proportion and by legal action it might only mean to trademark the Cree nation.

Found the third article:
http://thestarphoenix.com/news/loca...ight-to-protect-historic-chiefs-likeness-name

Thanks for the reply. The link in the thread itself took me to the homepage of the publication but not the article itself, so I had to search some more.

So, yeah, there's no indication there of legal action. The way the idea of using copyright law to protect the image of the Cree and Poundmaker is discussed, it sounds more like a desire to prevent worse things from happening in the future.
I don't read this article as indicative of action likely to be taken against Firaxis or Civ. I hope I'm not wrong.

This is what reads to me as a likely indicator that nothing is happening wrt Civ:
"Maybe this will motivate us to ramp that movement to the next level ..."

And this is the most open-ended part but it is, imho, far too open-ended to assume legal action against Civ is coming. For this reading though, IANAL, so who knows.
"Tootoosis said the band’s leadership plans to meet with elders to discuss the next steps."

I think next steps for how to file for protection to prevent future, worse things from happening, are much likelier than next steps to seek legal action about this particular instance.

(In fact, another article includes a positive quote from a leader, about Poundmaker's portrayal).

 

[Sagax]

Found the third article:
http://thestarphoenix.com/news/loca...ight-to-protect-historic-chiefs-likeness-name

The link in the thread itself took me to the homepage of the publication but not the article itself.

So, yeah, there's no indication there of legal action. The way the idea of using copyright law to protect the image of the Cree and Poundmaker is discusses, it sounds more like an idea to prevent worse things from happening in the future.
Sure, there might be something coming, just like any number of random low probability events I'm not expecting could happen tomorrow. But I don't read this article as indicative of action likely to be taken against Firaxis or Civ.

I hope I'm not wrong.

If it happens, then it will be because of media blowing the whole thing out of proportions and creating an echo chamber.

 

[nzcamel]

Is Quebec like Louisiana where Continental law holds? Under Common law they won't have a leg to stand on. Continental...I guess it'll depend on local statute law.
If Common law is the only jurisdiction they can file in, any lawyer worth his salt will tell them not to bother.

 

[UWHabs]

Yeah, there's basically no way that Firaxis/2K will capitulate. It's an interesting news story for a few days, and maybe the Cree Nation leadership take some steps to ensure that they're consulted in the future if people want to make games. At most Firaxis/2K will issue a statement saying they're sorry they did not consult with the Cree before including them, but feel that the depiction of Poundmaker is honoring his legacy, they wanted to highlight an important historical figure, and will make strides in the future to ensure a situation like this does not happen again, etc...

 

[ferretbacon]

I don't see any possibility that Firaxis would resort to something as messy as either (a) cutting the Cree from Canadian versions, (b) performing a last minute alteration to morph the Cree into the Iroquois, or (c) retracting one of the (already promised) civs from the 8 advertised and offering FreeLC a couple of months from now as an apology to customers.

The Cree were already officially announced, the game ships in a month, and the controversy's severity has been blown out of proportion by sensationalist headlines and echo-chamber conversations. Headman Milton Tootoosis made both positive and negative comments about the Cree's inclusion and the depiction of Poundmaker. In any case, he didn't make any unequivocal condemnations. Furthermore, he doesn't speak for the entire Cree nation, which is a rather large tribe in terms of population. Even furthermore, Firaxis is under no legal obligation to not depict the Cree or Poundmaker, so any retraction would be merely done as a courtesy to appease the lukewarm comments of one man.

Seriously, there really is no "Cree-gate," as such.

 

[ombak]

If it happens, then it will be because of media blowing the whole thing out of proportions and creating an echo chamber.

Indeed, but to me this is the big echo chamber blowing things out of proportion, far more so than those articles posted. That's what led me to look at it again. I think it's our little echo chamber that is making a mountain out of a molehill.

 

[Sagax]

Indeed, but to me this is the big echo chamber blowing things out of proportion, far more so than those articles posted. That's what led me to look at it again. I think it's our little echo chamber that is making a mountain out of a molehill.

Not really... if you check that other thread, you will see those articles appeared in chronological order, getting progressively sensational and dropping the positive aspects mentioned by the headman. Which then fuels the drama here.

 

[God of Kings]

Is Quebec like Louisiana where Continental law holds? Under Common law they won't have a leg to stand on. Continental...I guess it'll depend on local statute law.
If Common law is the only jurisdiction they can file in, any lawyer worth his salt will tell them not to bother.

Quebec uses Continental Civil Law.

 

[nzcamel]

Quebec uses Continental Civil Law.

Then statutes is Quebec could weigh in. It's still unlikely that would adversely affect Civ 6.

 

[God of Kings]

Then statutes is Quebec could weigh in. It's still unlikely that would adversely affect Civ 6.

No doubt about it.

 

[stealth_nsk]

Removal of Cree would be really sad. Overall I believe the Poundmaker inclusion was very respectful and should benefit the Cree image a lot.

 

[God of Kings]

Removal of Cree would be really sad. Overall I believe the Poundmaker inclusion was very respectful and should benefit the Cree image a lot.

The inclusion of the Cree would benefit Poundmaker's legacy. More people would learn of the injustice the Canadian government did to him.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

I just want to point out the lack of Georgia-ness on the English wikipedia. It has both Ottomans and Byzantines, however.

Also, I'm anxious to see if Carthage or Kumasi show up in the First Look tomorrow or the probable livestream on Wednesday. Of the remaining unaccounted-for city-states, they are the most likely to be made into civs.

 

[bite]

I just want to point out the lack of Georgia-ness on the English wikipedia. It has both Ottomans and Byzantines, however.

Also, I'm anxious to see if Carthage or Kumasi show up in the First Look tomorrow or the probable livestream on Wednesday. Of the remaining unaccounted-for city-states, they are the most likely to be made into civs.

the City State Watch continues, not may left now

 

[Inhalaattori]

I just want to point out the lack of Georgia-ness on the English wikipedia. It has both Ottomans and Byzantines, however.

Also, I'm anxious to see if Carthage or Kumasi show up in the First Look tomorrow or the probable livestream on Wednesday. Of the remaining unaccounted-for city-states, they are the most likely to be made into civs.

Well there is something. I guess not as much as one would expect.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Georgia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgian_Golden_Age

 

[ferretbacon]

Well there is something. I guess not as much as one would expect.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Georgia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgian_Golden_Age

He meant featured articles of the day on Wikipedia's home page. There's plenty on Tamar and Georgia in general.

 

[Disgustipated]

I just want to point out the lack of Georgia-ness on the English wikipedia. It has both Ottomans and Byzantines, however.

Also, I'm anxious to see if Carthage or Kumasi show up in the First Look tomorrow or the probable livestream on Wednesday. Of the remaining unaccounted-for city-states, they are the most likely to be made into civs.

There was mention of a Georgia President 2 or 3 days ago on English Wikipedia, but it was a recent President elected around 2008 or 2009, it was on the On This Day section.

Today's Wiki mentions a Germany composer and English Chapel. On this day mentions the Byzantines, hmmm, very unlikely though having another European Civ in. Also OTD mentions a British defeat of the Ottoman Empire in a battle, and finally mention of the Chechens.

 

[God of Kings]

He meant featured articles of the day on Wikipedia's home page. There's plenty on Tamar and Georgia in general.

Looks like the Wikipedia-Firaxis cabal isn't active this time.

 

[Ondolindë]

Looks like the Wikipedia-Firaxis cabal isn't active this time.

As they have only one AI developer, so they must have one lawyer who also handles Wikipedia. Now that he or she is involved with the Cree situation, he or she is probably busy.

 

[God of Kings]

As they have only one AI developer, so they must have one lawyer who also handles Wikipedia. Now that he or she is involved with the Cree situation, he or she is probably busy.

That might be the case.