[R&F] Rise and Fall General Discussion Thread

Does anyone have an idea if there will be a list of patch notes before release?
I’m eager to know if there will be improvements made to some erea’s of the game that have not gotten much attention so far.
 
Jewelrunna said:
So we now have all the niches that the expansion Civs add to the game.
Korea: Turtling science based around weird adjacency bonuses.
Mongolia: Aggro mounted Civ that combines trade with conquest
Netherlands: Naval & trade based Civ with a focus on culture & loyalty.
Cree: Trade, early scouting & border growth, with an extra helping of alliance-based diplomacy.
Georgia: Golden Ages, defense, and faith.
Chandragupta: Same India we know & love (maybe), but with an extra helping of domination.
Scotland: Science & production bonuses centered around amenities.
Mapuche: Cultural turtle that bites back. Also potentially an empire killer.
Zulu: Corps, armies, & impi, oh my!

Though we all have a right to be a little salty over the omission of some fan favorites (Ottomans & Inca when?!), I think we have ourselves some very interesting inclusions that should be a lot of fun to play as!
Click to expand...

I'd describe the Netherlands more as a river/coastline focused civ (the culture and loyalty bonuses seem fairly minor, especially with the expansion's reduced trade route availability), and Georgia partly as a city-state focused civ (conditional envoy doubling is far stronger than any extant CS bonus), but otherwise this seems like a good summary.
 
Patch notes tomorrow morning? Followed by live gameplay just after midnight.
 
Cerilis said:
Now that the leaders for Civilization VI: No shirts Edition are complete, what do you think of the combined leader graphics?

Should they have added some amazonian armoured-bra queen for balance? :think:

Mostly kidding here. :p
Click to expand...

According to Herodotus (cum gano salus: he was, after all, called both the Father of History and the Father of Lies - never met a Tall Tale he didn't like) the women of the Roxolani 'tribe' of the Scythians, the Only 'Amazon-like' fighters he mentions, were the horse archers of the tribe: the men fought in armor, with lances, but the women, supposedly, fought at a distance with bows, because they weren't allowed to marry and start a family until they had killed an enemy in combat. Taking a hard-nosed attitude towards this, they would shoot someone off his horse, then ride up and finish him off with a long knife and hack off some Very Important Part of his body to take back and prove that she had finished with this silliness and could go home now and do something really useful. According to Herodotus, other tribes really, really did not like to fight the Roxolani...

So, perhaps an Amazon on her horse with a bow in one hand and a severed head in the other and a 'You got a problem with this?" expression on her face.
 
Boris Gudenuf said:
According to Herodotus (cum gano salus: he was, after all, called both the Father of History and the Father of Lies - never met a Tall Tale he didn't like) the women of the Roxolani 'tribe' of the Scythians, the Only 'Amazon-like' fighters he mentions, were the horse archers of the tribe: the men fought in armor, with lances, but the women, supposedly, fought at a distance with bows, because they weren't allowed to marry and start a family until they had killed an enemy in combat. Taking a hard-nosed attitude towards this, they would shoot someone off his horse, then ride up and finish him off with a long knife and hack off some Very Important Part of his body to take back and prove that she had finished with this silliness and could go home now and do something really useful. According to Herodotus, other tribes really, really did not like to fight the Roxolani...

So, perhaps an Amazon on her horse with a bow in one hand and a severed head in the other and a 'You got a problem with this?" expression on her face.
Click to expand...

The other legend about the Amazons was that they cut off one breast so that it would not interfere with their bowstring. I have to think the Amazons were mostly fictitious, though. They might be based on Scythian or similar cultures in which women might participate in combat, but the actual stories seem far-fetched. They read too much like an Athenian fever dream. Independent women?! Independent women who are allowed to leave the house?! And go to war? And kill men?! We cannot allow this in Athens!
 
pgm123 said:
The other legend about the Amazons was that they cut off one breast so that it would not interfere with their bowstring. I have to think the Amazons were mostly fictitious, though. They might be based on Scythian or similar cultures in which women might participate in combat, but the actual stories seem far-fetched. They read too much like an Athenian fever dream. Independent women?! Independent women who are allowed to leave the house?! And go to war? And kill men?! We cannot allow this in Athens!
Click to expand...
Scythian women did indeed most likely inspired the myths of the Amazons and were said to be related to them and the Sarmatians. According to legend they also invented the cavalry as well.
 
pgm123 said:
The other legend about the Amazons was that they cut off one breast so that it would not interfere with their bowstring. I have to think the Amazons were mostly fictitious, though. They might be based on Scythian or similar cultures in which women might participate in combat, but the actual stories seem far-fetched. They read too much like an Athenian fever dream. Independent women?! Independent women who are allowed to leave the house?! And go to war? And kill men?! We cannot allow this in Athens!
Click to expand...
The stories, sure, but the Thracians certainly had warrior women: 40% of all warrior graves found among the Thracians were occupied by women. They probably were indeed archers. Too bad we know too little of the Thracian language (and history unfiltered by Herodotus and other Greeks) to make a civ out of them.
 
Alexander's Hetaroi said:
Scythian women did indeed most likely inspired the myths of the Amazons and were said to be related to them and the Sarmatians. According to legend they also invented the cavalry as well.
Click to expand...

Well, the Scythians were certainly at least one source for the 'Amazon' legends, because several well-equipped warrior graves have been found with a woman's skeleton and stacks of spear- and arrow-heads, armor, horse tack, and other combat trappings. Cavalry, as in riding the horses instead of driving them, is actually slightly pre-Scythian: the Cimmerians were using primitive composite bows and raiding on horseback into Hittite and Mitanni territory before the Scythians arrived on the Russian steppes, but the Scythians are credited with the true composite bow and possibly the predecessor to the modern saddle: I remember reading about a Scythian-period grave excavated in southern Siberia that included a very modern-looking saddle, wooden frame covered in leather and cloth, that dated from around the 7th century BC, right about the time of the earliest indicators of Scythians in the same area.

Zaarin said:
The stories, sure, but the Thracians certainly had warrior women: 40% of all warrior graves found among the Thracians were occupied by women. They probably were indeed archers. Too bad we know too little of the Thracian language (and history unfiltered by Herodotus and other Greeks) to make a civ out of them.
Click to expand...

It's ironic that Thracians were some of the favorite subjects for Greek artists, so we have a mass of material on what they looked like, but almost none of the material we need to 'flesh them out' into a Civilization for Civ! On the other hand, they had tartan patterned wool cloaks, bagpipes, and were hill-country light warriors (may have invented the Pelta, or Target shield) so people might easily mistake them for Balkan Scots!
 
Boris Gudenuf said:
Well, the Scythians were certainly at least one source for the 'Amazon' legends, because several well-equipped warrior graves have been found with a woman's skeleton and stacks of spear- and arrow-heads, armor, horse tack, and other combat trappings. Cavalry, as in riding the horses instead of driving them, is actually slightly pre-Scythian: the Cimmerians were using primitive composite bows and raiding on horseback into Hittite and Mitanni territory before the Scythians arrived on the Russian steppes, but the Scythians are credited with the true composite bow and possibly the predecessor to the modern saddle: I remember reading about a Scythian-period grave excavated in southern Siberia that included a very modern-looking saddle, wooden frame covered in leather and cloth, that dated from around the 7th century BC, right about the time of the earliest indicators of Scythians in the same area.
Click to expand...
I was actually referring to the legendary Amazons being the inventors of the cavalry, a least this is according to the Greeks. But yes no matter who actually invented it, it seems that one of so called "Amazon" people would have been the first to ride horses into battle.
 
Trengilly said:
Come on we need 82 more posts to make it to 5000 before R&F is released! :lol:
Click to expand...
Challenge accepted.

We could discuss each line of the patch notes individually :crazyeye:
 
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