[R&F] Rise and Fall General Discussion Thread

[Jackanape]

I'm trying to catch up on this thread, but it grows faster than I can keep pace! So I have to ask:

Has anyone considered that the "red forest" is simply a new graphic addition of deciduous trees to the tundra, and perhaps throughout? It looks a lot like maples in the fall, which would be a great addition to the dynamic daytime in the game...

Additionally, I wonder of things like the plague aren't a hint at even bigger changes such as a disaster element...earthquakes, fires, floods, plagues. MAybe the emergency system isnt limited to JUST prevent civs from getting out in front too fast?

Thoughts?

 

[Zaarin]

Has anyone considered that the "red forest" is simply a new graphic addition of deciduous trees to the tundra, and perhaps throughout? It looks a lot like maples in the fall, which would be a great addition to the dynamic daytime in the game...

A few thoughts on that. First, if they are finally adding deciduous forests, then they oddly placed it in the one place where the conifer forest makes sense. On a more serious note, though, it's shaped like our other four hex natural wonder (Pantanal) and the red looks like something smaller than trees, like grass or fireweed.

 

[UncivilizedGuy]

Yes, I specifically meant the Enlightenment Age as to bridge the gap between the Renaissance and the Industrial Eras. As I said earlier, there have been numerous scientific and cultural breakthroughs during that era, hence the alternate names of Scientific Revolution and the Baroque Era. Not just that, but the American and the French Revolutions happened during that era as well. Benjamin Franklin was a child of the Enlightenment Era.

The Renaissance era in the current game theoretically covers the Enlightenment era. Most of the important techs are there. The problem I have with calling it the Enlightenment or even the Renaissance era is that those labels are way too Eurocentric. The majority of historians refer to the period between 1450 and 1750 as the Early Modern era. It surprises me that Firaxis hasn't changed that yet in this world of political correctness. Besides a few military units that might be missing I'm not sure what else you would add to the Enlightenment era that would make it special.

Many civilizations around the world experienced their own special eras. My idea is to overhaul the current system and have civs create their own special eras. The existing system is too rigid. Although they are on the right track with the new Historical stories (or whatever it's called), Dark ages and Golden ages system.

 

[DJ_Tanner]

A few thoughts on that. First, if they are finally adding deciduous forests, then they oddly placed it in the one place where the conifer forest makes sense. On a more serious note, though, it's shaped like our other four hex natural wonder (Pantanal) and the red looks like something smaller than trees, like grass or fireweed.

Yeah its much too 'contained' to be something else. I first saw it on a phone and thought it was a forest fire emergency (then found out that's not how emergencies work and saw it larger to see it is definitely NOT a fire). I don't see how it is anything other than a natural wonder. If it was new tree graphics we should have seen them other places as well.

 

[Uberfrog]

The problem I have with calling it the Enlightenment or even the Renaissance era is that those labels are way too Eurocentric. The majority of historians refer to the period between 1450 and 1750 as the Early Modern era. It surprises me that Firaxis hasn't changed that yet in this world of political correctness. Besides a few military units that might be missing I'm not sure what else you would add to the Enlightenment era that would make it special.

Many civilizations around the world experienced their own special eras. My idea is to overhaul the current system and have civs create their own special eras. The existing system is too rigid. Although they are on the right track with the new Historical stories (or whatever it's called), Dark ages and Golden ages system.

Well the whole game is built around progressing along the development lines of European nations, so I don’t really see the alternative here!

And yeah, military units would be the main reason for differentiating the Era. I’d also want more techs to be thrown in to fill out the game. I find the progression from muskets to tanks to be too abrupt.

I agree that Dark and Golden ages are a good step away from the straightforward progression we currently have. But the core gameplay ideas rely on steady advancement from the Stone Age into space. I also think it needs to present a reasonably level playing field where each Civ has different abilities but still follows broadly the same rules. I don’t see how you can escape those central features while still being a Civ game.

 

[Lord Xavius]

Apparently there will be a female leader whose ability (or possibly civilization's ability) "plays with the Ages system in a very interesting way" (credit to Eagle Pursuit for finding the interview and linking it in the features thread). Any speculation on who this might be? Seondeok, possibly?

 

[Guandao]

Apparently there will be a female leader whose ability (or possibly civilization's ability) "plays with the Ages system in a very interesting way" (credit to Eagle Pursuit for finding the interview and linking it in the features thread). Any speculation on who this might be? Seondeok, possibly?

What do they mean by the Ages system? The Golden Age/Dark Age system? I have no idea what female historical leader is associated with that.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

What do they mean by the Ages system? The Golden Age/Dark Age system? I have no idea what female historical leader is associated with that.

Yes. Yes, it's rather vague. Elizabeth might seem the sort to have Golden Age-related bonuses.

 

[Zaarin]

Apparently there will be a female leader whose ability (or possibly civilization's ability) "plays with the Ages system in a very interesting way" (credit to Eagle Pursuit for finding the interview and linking it in the features thread). Any speculation on who this might be? Seondeok, possibly?

Could be Seondeok. Could also be Tamar.

Yes. Yes, it's rather vague. Elizabeth might seem the sort to have Golden Age-related bonuses.

That's another good thought. I'd love Elizabeth to return, especially since I was...less than thrilled by Victoria.

 

[SammyKhalifa]

What do they mean by the Ages system? The Golden Age/Dark Age system? I have no idea what female historical leader is associated with that.

Not that I want it, but that sounds a lot like Joan . . .

 

[Guandao]

That's another good thought. I'd love Elizabeth to return, especially since I was...less than thrilled by Victoria.

Why you didn't like Victoria? Because she led Great Britain instead of just England?

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

That's the thing about "related to Ages". Nearly every noteworthy leader presided over an age of success. The concept can be twisted to apply to nearly anyone.

But at least with Elizabeth, her reign is popularly regarded as a Golden Age.

 

[UncivilizedGuy]

Well the whole game is built around progressing along the development lines of European nations, so I don’t really see the alternative here!

And yeah, military units would be the main reason for differentiating the Era. I’d also want more techs to be thrown in to fill out the game. I find the progression from muskets to tanks to be too abrupt.

I agree that Dark and Golden ages are a good step away from the straightforward progression we currently have. But the core gameplay ideas rely on steady advancement from the Stone Age into space. I also think it needs to present a reasonably level playing field where each Civ has different abilities but still follows broadly the same rules. I don’t see how you can escape those central features while still being a Civ game.

When I think it through there is really no easy solution to this. That's why I created a mod for this a while back.

 

[Jackanape]

Regarding the red forest. I'm on a phone myself, and have yet to see anything on a big screen...looking around the shot above, I see that there are no other deciduous trees shown outside the four tile area. Mean Culpa. I still think natural emergencies will also have a place, though. Otherwise, why a plague?

 

[SammyKhalifa]

That's the thing about "related to Ages". Nearly every noteworthy leader presided over an age of success. .

O Captain My Captain

 

[Zaarin]

Why you didn't like Victoria? Because she led Great Britain instead of just England?

Largely. Also, while I realize that Victoria did a great deal of politicking behind closed doors, she was just a figurehead at the end of the day. I thought she was a perplexing choice in a game whose leader goals were allegedly "big personalities": when it comes to big personalities among the English monarchy, Victoria just isn't the one who springs to mind: any Tudor, James I, Henry V--sure. Victoria...she felt like a bland choice, and the civ ended up feeling far more "British" than "English."

 

[Kimiimaro]

Largely. Also, while I realize that Victoria did a great deal of politicking behind closed doors, she was just a figurehead at the end of the day. I thought she was a perplexing choice in a game whose leader goals were allegedly "big personalities": when it comes to big personalities among the English monarchy, Victoria just isn't the one who springs to mind: any Tudor, James I, Henry V--sure. Victoria...she felt like a bland choice, and the civ ended up feeling far more "British" than "English."

Alfred the Great

Oh, and sixty-nine days now!

 

[PhilBowles]

Largely. Also, while I realize that Victoria did a great deal of politicking behind closed doors, she was just a figurehead at the end of the day. I thought she was a perplexing choice in a game whose leader goals were allegedly "big personalities": when it comes to big personalities among the English monarchy, Victoria just isn't the one who springs to mind: any Tudor, James I, Henry V--sure. Victoria...she felt like a bland choice, and the civ ended up feeling far more "British" than "English."

Victoria's a pretty recognisable personality, and she was a figurehead largely by her own - albeit reluctant - choice, as she (via Albert) ushered in the era of constitutional monarchy.

As for the civ name, that's been fixed since 1991 and won't be changed now especially with the now-default inclusion of the hideous fantasy amalgamation of Scotland, Wales and Ireland Civ calls "The Celts" at some point in the game's life cycle. As important as England as an independent territory has been in various periods of European history, there's no real arguing that the country owes its place among the default starting civs in every Civ game to date in large part to the British Empire.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

https://twitter.com/CivGame/status/936661381234827264

I think this means we get a First Look next week.

 

[Kimiimaro]

https://twitter.com/CivGame/status/936661381234827264

I think this means we get a First Look next week.

Very well... So, I guess that will be tuesday, right?