[R&F] Rise and Fall General Discussion Thread

Canals would be interesting and are much needed.

There have been numerous canals in history: the Panama Canal, the Suez Canal, the Grand Canal of China, the Erie Canal, the St. Lawrence Seaway (including the Welland Canal), etc.
Well what about that "diverted river" in Assyria that went over one of the first aqueducts and onto what some believe to be the Hanging Gardens? It's not exactly a canal but I think it was the first great artificial river created in history. (Which would then be funny as the Hanging Gardens would not be next to a river IRL just like Stone Henge wasn't built next to stone.)

But when we saw the first clip of halling rocks, I initialy thought of that "river", more specifically the aquaduct.
 
Venice building canals as an improvement would be really cool. Maybe trade routes passing through the canals Venice has built generate Gold for Venice. Or the Grand Canal as a Wonder. If the canal is going to be a unique for any civ, it really should be Venice.

As a Dutchman, I oppose this idea. We're far more well-known for our waterworks than Venice. And we did them on a much bigger scale.

Also, canals would make sense for the Dutch. In IV, we had dikes, in V, we had polders, so canals, arguably 'the' third type of waterwork, are left.
 
Well what about that "diverted river" in Assyria that went over one of the first aqueducts and onto what some believe to be the Hanging Gardens? It's not exactly a canal but I think it was the first great artificial river created in history. (Which would then be funny as the Hanging Gardens would not be next to a river IRL just like Stone Henge wasn't built next to stone.)

But when we saw the first clip of halling rocks, I initialy thought of that "river", more specifically the aquaduct.

Pretty sure the first artificial river created in history was the one Herakles created for one of his works. :p
 
Here is what i was talking about above; possibly the first ever "canal" in history:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerwan

The Aqueduct of JerwanEdit
The aqueduct is part of the larger Atrush Canal built by the Assyrian king Sennacherib between 703 and 690BC to water Ninevah's extensive gardens,[3] with water diverted from Khenis gorge, 50km to the north.

An inscription on the Aqueduct reads:

"Sennacherib king of the world king of Assyria. Over a great distance I had a watercourse directed to the environs of Nineveh, joining together the waters.... Over steep-sided valleys I spanned an aqueduct of white limestone blocks, I made those waters flow over it."[4]
Some scholars[5][6] believe the legends of the Hanging Gardens of Babylon were actually Sennacherib’s extensive gardens in Nineveh,[7] not Babylon.[8]
 
As a Dutchman, I oppose this idea. We're far more well-known for our waterworks than Venice. And we did them on a much bigger scale.

Also, canals would make sense for the Dutch. In IV, we had dikes, in V, we had polders, so canals, arguably 'the' third type of waterwork, are left.
The Dutch are certainly well known for their watery wizardry, as I often call it, but if we're talking specifically about canals then Venice may be more famous, given how unusual it is. Besides, Venice doesn't have much else to brag about so I don't begrudge them the canals.

Having said that, I doubt Venice will be in 6 anyway, at least not in this expansion, and canals would definitely be a fitting addition for the Dutch.
 
On reddit, they all want Americans
on youtube, they all want Germans and males or Ataturk



Brazil was however okay for me. Their emperor was actually pretty well known, and did lots of good stuff for a monarch. They are also a rising power right now, and will most likely be one of the five or ten most important powers in the near future (and above all a regional power for centuries now), along other rising powers like India and China (China is already major power number 2). They are also not an English Colonial nation, but a Portuguese Colonial Nation, that isn't even yet in the game (they took their spot for a while). I would be glad to see Portugal at some point in the game (however not now), and maybe Portugal should be rather in the game than Brazil, but they want some diversity.

Australia and Canada however are ridicilous, and including them both is especially sad.
I'd argue that Australia and Brazil have more of a significant culture than Canada, more reasonable it is to call them a civilization in their own sake.

Brazil is even possibly more of a unique and diverse culture than Portugal. But that's really argueable at best, I'm not solid about it.

At any case, an inclusion of Brazil should not be a measure by which to judge an inclusion of Canada.
 
I'd argue that Australia and Brazil have more of a significant culture than Canada, more reasonable it is to call them a civilization in their own sake.

Brazil is even possibly more of a unique and diverse culture than Portugal. But that's really argueable at best, I'm not solid about it.

At any case, an inclusion of Brazil should not be a measure by which to judge an inclusion of Canada.
I can‘t stand it when people lump Brazil, Australia and Canada together in their hate for post- colonial nations. Brazil is a very unique country and culture with an interesting history. Thanks!
 
I'm not ranting on Brazil, guys. I like their inclusion.
 
I can‘t stand it when people lump Brazil, Australia and Canada together in their hate for post- colonial nations. Brazil is a very unique country and culture with an interesting history. Thanks!

Suggesting that Canada and Australia don't have unique cultures and interesting history says more about ignorance of those countries than it does about Brazil, whatever your stance on their inclusion.

I don't like the inclusion of these territories because their impacts on history have so far been minor, not because of their distinctiveness or lack of it. Australia's won me over somewhat with its portrayal, but Firaxis has yet to show it can do anything interesting with Brazil or anything that departs from a bland 'carnivals and rainforest' stereotype.
 
If Canada were included, I'd be very much against a French Canada civ especially. For one, it was never independent from France until conquest. Having a French appointed governor like Champlain increases the ridiculousness. If it had never been conquered and if it had become an independent state such as Canada currently is, then a French Canadian civ would make some sense. As it is, it is simply a fantasy or what-if civilization akin to including the Dutch American colonies as a civilization or colonial America as a civilization separate from America or a . Pure fantasy.
 
I can‘t stand it when people lump Brazil, Australia and Canada together in their hate for post- colonial nations. Brazil is a very unique country and culture with an interesting history. Thanks!

I agree with this. Brazil is too unique in any way, I'm just a little annoyed when they stereotype brazilans with Carnival. I think Firaxis should have focused focus Brazil's ability on its cultural diversity, though I do not know how they could have done it.
 
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Sorry to people from Brazil, Australia, and Canada, but I don't find your post-Columbian history to be that interesting. :p It basically consisted of the European colonists pushing/driving the native people out of their lands. Then the European descendants gain independence from their mother country, and go on to fight in some wars. Some actually goes for American history, I find it uninteresting as well. I started out my interest in history with the American past, but nowadays, my attention is elsewhere.

Once again, I mean no offense to Brazilians, Australians, and Canadians, just stating my personal opinion. :p
 
Sorry to people from Brazil, Australia, and Canada, but I don't find your post-Columbian history to be that interesting. :p It basically consisted of the European colonists pushing/driving the native people out of their lands. Then the European descendants gain independence from their mother country, and go on to fight in some wars. Some actually goes for American history, I find it uninteresting as well. I started out my interest in history with the American past, but nowadays, my attention is elsewhere.

Once again, I mean no offense to Brazilians, Australians, and Canadians, just stating my personal opinion. :p

I would love to have Tupi in the game (to increase the Pre-Columbian representation), but I think this will never happen.

In any case, the Tupi indigenous culture is very influential in the current Brazilian culture. Maracanã is a Tupi origin name.
 
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I would love to have Tupi in the game (to increase the Pre-Columbian representation), but I think this will never happen.

In any case, the Tupi indigenous culture is very influential in the current Brazilian culture. Maracanã (as the most famous stadium in Brazil, is a Tupi origin name.

for me the tupis are already inside the brazilian civ, like you said, the indians are part of Brasil culture, different from other former colonies like United States
 
Sorry to people from Brazil, Australia, and Canada, but I don't find your post-Columbian history to be that interesting. :p It basically consisted of the European colonists pushing/driving the native people out of their lands. Then the European descendants gain independence from their mother country, and go on to fight in some wars. Some actually goes for American history, I find it uninteresting as well. I started out my interest in history with the American past, but nowadays, my attention is elsewhere.

Once again, I mean no offense to Brazilians, Australians, and Canadians, just stating my personal opinion. :p
Driving people out of their native land would invalidate 90% of the civs in the game.
 
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