[R&F] Rise and Fall General Discussion Thread

[DWilson]

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[Alexander's Hetaroi]

That would be oh so nice. But no Elvis please.

Elvis the Entertainer does have a nice ring to it though.

 

[PhilBowles]

My big question is how will they balance the pace of techs and civics? In the base game, it is easy to get far ahead in techs compared to real history. Can dark ages cause you to lose some techs that you have to rediscover? So maybe you get to renaissance age techs in say 1000AD but lose them in a dark age and then eventually catch up again and get to modern era techs around the 1800's? Or did they slow down the pace of techs? Or maybe they added a lot of new techs to each era?

The emergency mechanic sounds very intriguing to me.

The date hasn't had any relevance to Civ tech progression at least since Civ III, and people now routinely talk in terms of turn number rather than date. I don't think Firaxis will focus mechanics around trying to make technological or cultural development consistent with the real world.

probably just a reflection of the sun

It's definitely a feature - those look to me like deciduous trees with autumn foliage, a very different shape from the conifers intermixed with them. Likely it's a natural wonder representing an area well-known for autumn colour, and far enough north to have snowy conifers - Great Bear Rainforest, perhaps. Or, if it really is grass, Denali National Park.

 

[TDK]

So now that Rhyes and Fall mod comes to ciVIlization (after skipping on CiV), I can finally move on from cIV...

 

[God of Kings]

It's definitely a feature - those look to me like deciduous trees with autumn foliage, a very different shape from the conifers intermixed with them. Likely it's a natural wonder representing an area well-known for autumn colour, and far enough north to have snowy conifers - Great Bear Rainforest, perhaps. Or, if it really is grass, Denali National Park.

...or has been discussed a few pages earlier, Kluane National Park in the Yukon.

 

[Aussie_Lurker]

Granted, and I think VI has done a great job of incorporating many interesting choices when compared with previous editions. But... Civilization is a 4X game. V went away from that somewhat, which was a huge disappointment for long time players of Civ. V also had way less interesting choices in it than VI does. So a game can remain 4X and be mentally challenging.

To be fair, so did Civilisation IV, the first game that really kicked ICS to the curb, whilst simultaneously scrapping the corruption system. Were it up to me, the Civ4 "No. Of Cities" & "Distance from Capital" maintenance system would get re-introduced. Then bring in a variety of "legal" buildings which-aside from increasing loyalty-would also be able reduce these two modifiers.

I need to wash my eyes after reading some of the Youtube comments. I saw one saying hurray for more irrelevant female leaders, and that had over 200 likes. They really want most of the Civ leaders to be male? Boring!

Going into You Tube comments sections is frequently like walking into an open sewer-though with the latter you will end up emerging much cleaner .

Was Civiii the one with corruption, where anything far away from your capital could never build anything ever unless you build the Forbidden Palace? That was terrible.

Civ1 to Civ3 all had corruption, & yes it was a horrible mechanic. One which didn't even achieve its goal of killing off Infinite City Sleaze. It was Civ4 that dealt the killing blow to that particular exploit.....whilst still making Wide a viable strategy for the empire with a sufficiently strong economy.

It's great that Dark Ages are introduced in R&F.

They are a necessary evil in the history of many civilizations.

Great upheavals occur during the Dark Age, leading to major social changes, often ending up becoming stronger than even before the Dark Age, hence the Heroic Age.

The Medieval Dark Age allowed the more entrepreneurial peasants to start up their own businesses to some degree, leading to the Renaissance.

The Great Depression (which is a Modern-era Dark Age) led to the strengthening of trade unions and the formation of populist political parties.

The phoenix rises from its ashes.

Here is hoping that other "neccessary evils" will pop up again in the game-like Slavery, Caste System & Plague.

 

[Kimiimaro]

That would be oh so nice. But no Elvis please.

But the military one needs to return.

"Give me better ships your excellency and watch the seas turn red with BLOOD!"

 

[Aussie_Lurker]

Okay, well, I hope it's not too restrictive. I mean, that you don't have to always make the same decisions to hit that golden age score.

Also, no info, then, about what affects the score? Is it the score system that's already in the game or will it be something else?

I recall them saying that Dark Ages come with their own set of Social Policies, which actually help define your "focus", in terms of how your empire plans to emerge from the dark age....I am guessing the focuses will be Cultural, Militaristic or Religious.

 

[Josephias]

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I think we may use cIX and ciX and ciXI ... upper side of the X is a V anyway.

 

[PhilBowles]

Apologies, but I can't take someone totally seriously when using the word "haters" just because they posted a negative review. A lot of the reviews have substance and reasons to back them up. Calling them "haters" has done nothing to convince me that they're wrong.

I've been a persistent critic of Civ VI, but I will say that the last patch was the first to significantly improve the game since release and Steam reviews tend to overemphasise early impressions simply because more people buy and comment immediately post-release than they do as time goes on. There also don't seem to be many post-patch Let's Plays out there, but it's at least worth watching a partial Let's Play session to get an idea of the game. I played a session through to completion and then followed up with a second that I'm now mid-way through - that's not exactly a stellar endorsement, but it represents a much greater time commitment I've been willing to invest in post-patch Civ VI than I felt the game warranted before.

The AI's still the worst it's been since at least post-first patch vanilla Civ V, AI civs are lacking in identity (a hurdle I've struggled to get past), the UI is poor (and, for cultural victory, maddengly difficult to interpret), every victory condition just amounts to bucket-filling with a different resource, and the eureka hunt aspect promotes counterimmersive min-maxing, but if you're bored with whatever version of Civ you're currently playing or have explored all it has to offer, Civ VI has finally reached the point where it feels and mostly plays like a 'real' Civ game, while at release I'd have compared it more closely to Beyond Earth.

I understand the desire for developers to make peaceful play more interesting, but...
1. Culture flipping borders in Civ4 were quite lame. I don't know how Loyalty works, let's it so far it looks like the same passive pressure as culture in Civ4.

I always liked it, for all that it was an absurdly gamey system that made not the slightest bit of sense. It was also popular enough to be brought back once in limited form in Civ V.

6. Historic moments. Look good, but from the description all the moments have the same bonuses, which doesn't look that fun. However the phrase "Many grant an even bigger bonus if you’re the “world’s first” civilization to make the achievement" makes me hope there are different rewards for being the first.

Hadn't really registered these, but from this description it sounds a lot like the era-linked bonuses in Endless Legend and Endless Space 2, where entering a new era unlocks several projects that you can race against other civs to complete. Since that system is basically the Endless take on Wonders, I'm not sure what Civ gains from having another Wonder system.

Alternatively, it might be a variant on Civ IV's "if you're the first to tech X, you get a free tech' system, but that was a very much take-it-or-leave-it feature of that game.

 

[God of Kings]

I think we may use cIX and ciX and ciXI ... upper side of the X is a V anyway.

That would lead to CiXV (15), CiXVI (16), CiXVII (17), and CiXVIII (18).

 

[Aussie_Lurker]

I'm reminded of the Council of Advisors from old Civ games. They used to have avatars and personalities, rather than just a tiny, color-coded symbol in the production, tech, and culture trees. Is it possible they brought them back as governors?

....and the science advisor was *hawt* IIRC.

 

[SammyKhalifa]

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nope.

(is it really that difficult to type, say CivIV for example? It's just a few more characters and removes all ambiguity.)

 

[Kimiimaro]

Good was trade advisor in the modern era.

"Trade sir! Discover it! This is you, this is a clue! Get a clue, discover trade!"

And one great quote from the scientific in the medieval era:

"Sire... The very cobblestones in our streets posess more learning than we do... In truth Sire... *looks around* ...we suck."

 

[Ondolindë]

While India is really missing a leader, Gandhi has never ruled India, so we can say that India is without leadership.

A leader, by definition, doesn't need to rule.

 

[PhilBowles]

It does remind me of two volcanoes, but it seems even taller, more green and probably smaller

.Arenal, Costa Rica

Mayon, Philippines

Pinatubo, Philippines (that violently erupted in 1991)

but since the top is covered with leaves, i think it could be an extinct volcano (or a very dormant one). It seems small also, and also very steep. It's possibly it's not even a volcano.

But who knows, it could even be a random structure, and not standing out for something.

Pretty sure the mountain's just a bog-standard mountain - they may have new art assets, but aside from anything else it's too close to Roirama to be a likely natural wonder placement if you're referring to the mountain I think you are.

For an improvement, it looks very... specific with the harbour and stuff.

Could it not just be a new building option for a Harbor district? The harbor looks identical to the existing district and there's precedent for a building being 'attached' to the end of a district (water mill with an aqueduct).

 

[Ondolindë]

(Remember too, that this site is has very passionate players but represents a very small portion of the actual base, therefore complaints are frequent and of the "sky is falling" variety, but not always that representative of the actual playerbase.)

I agree that we might not be representative, but aren't we more influential considering the depth of analysis, passion and knowledge of the game presented in this forum and others? Or at the very least, are we not more in a position, because of the forum we have here and elsewhere, to communicate and present arguments to the developers?

 

[Tatran]

"It takes coin, not clowns to keep an empire afloat."

I've played civ2 many times and I can't remember this and some other lines by the advisors.

 

[Siptah]

"It takes coin, not clowns to keep an empire afloat."

I've played civ2 many times and I can't remember this and some other lines by the advisors.

Recording and writing this must have been so much fun!

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

38 new achievements were just added.