[R&F] Rise and Fall General Discussion Thread

[stealth_nsk]

Nah. If they follow the Civ V model (which I think they've hinted they will), the days of individual DLC are over, and any future expansion will take the same form as Rise & Fall.

But also there doesn't seem to be any reason to pre-purchase: no discount, no preorder bonus. I'm going to wait until release.

No guarantees, actually. They could release more content DLCs after expansion.

But having things like season pass for expansion is a bit too much, I agree.

 

[bbbt]

Nah. If they follow the Civ V model (which I think they've hinted they will), the days of individual DLC are over, and any future expansion will take the same form as Rise & Fall.

I'm curious how having the 'digital deluxe' this time around is going to affect that model - in the sense that iirc, about 3-6 months after Gods and Kings they released the Civ 5 'gold' edition - essentially Gods and Kings + all the individual DLC until that point. I guess they'll likely discontinue the Deluxe edition and then just release a gold edition that's essentially the Deluxe edition + Rise and Fall.

I'm sure that'll be another round of internet complaints. The majority of new negative steam reviews continue to be complaints about the deluxe edition (I think spurred by the announcement of the expansion not in the deluxe edition) and DLC pricing in general.

 

[Vahnstad]

Well, going to nitpick a bit, but the Niyragongo didn't killed a lot of people, just a few hundred but it was more indirect casualties form collapsing buildings.
The city was half razed though, and there is nowadays a district called "Les Volcans" rebuilt upon the lava path.

Anw, back on topic: for me the biggest concern is still the AI: I'm no way a very good civ player, I think I got 150h in civ6 so far, but I can arguably tell that deity is a joke; my last Polish game, was toying around religion and playing supbar. Runaway AI can't even manage to get a space victory with more than 25 tech ahead! Entered the 5th in the Space and finished easily with the second having a least 1tech + 2modul to go.


As others have said, with more complexity, it's not going to better itself, rather the contrary!

Indirect deaths are deaths related to the cause too. When someone dies in a car accident during the peak of a hurricane passage, the death will also be caused by the hurricane. If someone commits suicide because her son was killed in a terrorist attack, than it's an additional (indirect) death caused by a certain terrorist attack. Heatwaves are an indirect consequence of global warming. Without global warming, heatwaves would also occur sometimes, but now they happen more frequently, so a heatwave is indirectly (and partly) ascribed to climate change. Although the best way you have to look towards it, is the number of heatwaves increasing in a longer period of time. It's a bit complex but okay.

 

[Uberfrog]

I'm curious how having the 'digital deluxe' this time around is going to affect that model - in the sense that iirc, about 3-6 months after Gods and Kings they released the Civ 5 'gold' edition - essentially Gods and Kings + all the individual DLC until that point. I guess they'll likely discontinue the Deluxe edition and then just release a gold edition that's essentially the Deluxe edition + Rise and Fall.

I'm sure that'll be another round of internet complaints. The majority of new negative steam reviews continue to be complaints about the deluxe edition (I think spurred by the announcement of the expansion not in the deluxe edition) and DLC pricing in general.

I think we might see a deluxe edition upgrade when Rise & Fall is released, so people without the DLC can get it all for a discount. But they've been holding out to get as much money from the individual DLCs as possible, especially since they had to give them all to the Deluxe Edition owners after the pricing blunder.

 

[Onii-chan]

Well I'm not playing Civ because it's nice on my wallet but because I think it's a great game series so whatever, I'll cough up whatever they demand of me and just live with it

But yes as mentioned there's no real incentive to pre-purchasing it already as is as there's no bonus included for doing so (yet?) so I guess I'll just wait a while for more information at the very least

 

[bbbt]

Well I'm not playing Civ because it's nice on my wallet but because I think it's a great game series so whatever, I'll cough up whatever they demand of me and just live with it

This is true, but I'd say it certainly works out cheaper on an hourly basis than a lot of things I spent money on

 

[Siptah]

I wonder how many of the eurekas will change and will now have to do with the new mechanics.

And I also wonder if we'll just get additional policy cards, or if some will disappear... Will policies related to the new alliances or loyalty make diplomacy slots more valuable?

Writing Bull and @Piruparka confirmed there will be Preview Let's Plays before the start

 

[Uberfrog]

I wonder how many of the eurekas will change and will now have to do with the new mechanics.

And I also wonder if we'll just get additional policy cards, or if some will disappear... Will policies related to the new alliances or loyalty make diplomacy slots more valuable?

I really hope they do something more interesting with a lot of the policy cards. Things like "Corvée", "Serfdom", "Colonial Taxes", "Raj", and "Police State" are terms loaded with rather more meaning than the current bland bonuses suggest. Sure, Police State has a negative modifier, but none of the others do. I want to see powerful bonuses that impact Loyalty/Amenities more severely, and they've hinted about a Dark Age policy of Isolationism similar to, say, the Eastern Bloc or Edo period Japan.

I'd like government cards to represent the nasty side of history in more than name - you can get a production bonus from Serfdom or Slavery, say, or a financial bonus from cities on different continents with Colonial Taxes and Raj, but at the cost of your citizen's satisfaction and loyalty that makes them more likely to revolt.

 

[Cethegus]

I doubt we will get first looks this week. The release is still some time away, and with the announcement of the expansion this week, they probably don't need to release anything until next week to keep the discussion going. I would love to be wrong, though. The first looks will hopefully reveal more details about the new features.

I think so too. If we take a look at the calendar, we can see that the release is about 10 weeks away. If Firaxis releases information on one new leader (+civilization) every week before launch, that only leaves the week they announced the expansion (which is this current one) and the week when they actually launch the expansion (which is the last one).

Personally I'm more interested in seeing the new civilizations and the additional leader than any of the new game mechanics. I've yet to play Civ6, though.

 

[Cagarustus]

It seems to me that they’re allowing for a more non-domination style of gameplay, hence the culture flipping, which I find exciting; I don’t like domination and war.

I assume this feature was in previous civs but I’ve only ever played Civ 5 and 6.

 

[4N4C0ND4]

I really hope they do something more interesting with a lot of the policy cards. Things like "Corvée", "Serfdom", "Colonial Taxes", "Raj", and "Police State" are terms loaded with rather more meaning than the current bland bonuses suggest. Sure, Police State has a negative modifier, but none of the others do. I want to see powerful bonuses that impact Loyalty/Amenities more severely, and they've hinted about a Dark Age policy of Isolationism similar to, say, the Eastern Bloc or Edo period Japan.

I'd like government cards to represent the nasty side of history in more than name - you can get a production bonus from Serfdom or Slavery, say, or a financial bonus from cities on different continents with Colonial Taxes and Raj, but at the cost of your citizen's satisfaction and loyalty that makes them more likely to revolt.

That would be very cool.
I agree that for the moment they feel just like flat bonuses u have to chose instead of real strategy choices for me

And don't get me started on why more than half of them are completely useless (survey, trade conf, space agen) or stupidly mandatory (agoge, ratio, free market)

 

[Mr Jon of Cheam]

I love the way governments and policies have been implemented in 6, far better than any previous iteration in my opinion, although I agree that certain cards are useless and others indispensable, so some tweaking would be nice. Really looking forward to seeing what they do with the Government district.

 

[h0nk0815]

I wonder how many of the eurekas will change and will now have to do with the new mechanics.

And I also wonder if we'll just get additional policy cards, or if some will disappear... Will policies related to the new alliances or loyalty make diplomacy slots more valuable?

I really hope we get some new diplomacy cards. In the early game you only have the coice between "Charismatic Leader" and "Diplomatic League". I think Loyality cards will fit into the green slot.

 

[KayAU]

I like the new policy system as well, although it could certainly be improved, both in terms of balance, UI and flavor. As an example of a simple but effective overhaul of the latter two aspects, check out the mod "Sukritact's Policy Manager".

 

[4N4C0ND4]

I really hope we get some new diplomacy cards. In the early game you only have the coice between "Charismatic Leader" and "Diplomatic League". I think Loyality cards will fit into the green slot.

Well, even if we had anything else, difficult to put anything else beside Charismatic imo.
The real problem is the lack of diplo slot till really latter.

It get only interesting afterwards when you have nice spy policies if you want to tackle this side of the game. But if you don't, it's just really Charismatic till Gunboat lol

 

[eso12por8]

It'd make for an interesting diplomatic option to make an ultimate alliance by creating a vassal state or marriage/union of civs...

 

[SammyKhalifa]

I like the new policy system as well, although it could certainly be improved, both in terms of balance, UI and flavor. As an example of a simple but effective overhaul of the latter two aspects, check out the mod "Sukritact's Policy Manager".

They could definitely use another pass. For example, at least for me there's not real choice between the two early military policies of "fight all the barbarians better" or "more experience for this unit you only have at most one of."

 

[bbbt]

I really hope they do something more interesting with a lot of the policy cards. Things like "Corvée", "Serfdom", "Colonial Taxes", "Raj", and "Police State" are terms loaded with rather more meaning than the current bland bonuses suggest. Sure, Police State has a negative modifier, but none of the others do. I want to see powerful bonuses that impact Loyalty/Amenities more severely, and they've hinted about a Dark Age policy of Isolationism similar to, say, the Eastern Bloc or Edo period Japan.

I'd like government cards to represent the nasty side of history in more than name - you can get a production bonus from Serfdom or Slavery, say, or a financial bonus from cities on different continents with Colonial Taxes and Raj, but at the cost of your citizen's satisfaction and loyalty that makes them more likely to revolt.

Yes, they've traditionally steered away from the penalty/bonus combo (instead weigh which bonuses you want), but it sounds like that's what they're going to do with the dark ages (penalize this portion of your civ but boost the others).

I agree I'd like some more interesting implementations of the policy cards. The adjacency/building bonus cards are basically just a card form of the old slider (I want to focus more on faith/science/gold, etc.). And the military ones being primarily production boosts I find especially dry. I'd be happy if they just re-adjusted unit costs and got rid of all the military production cards and just replaced them with more interesting options.

 

[Cerilis]

They could definitely use another pass. For example, at least for me there's not real choice between the two early military policies of "fight all the barbarians better" or "more experience for this unit you only have at most one of."

Depends. If there are no or barely barbarians, you might as well take the scout card for a while.

 

[Siptah]

3 things that come to my mind after reading all the progress and contributions made here, i dont know if you realized so sorry if im repeating something.
- The turkish region Capadoccia appears very clearly in the poster, so we can assume that Turkey/Ottoman empire will be a new civ, also this is more logical if we thing that the new temple is the Artemis temple, with is in the turkish city of Efesus.
View attachment 481907 View attachment 481908 View attachment 481909

I have more of a feeling that the left side of the river is the golden age and the east side of the river is the dark age... I agree that a Cappadocian natural wonder (Göreme?) is likely, however.
Also, I don't relate the temple of Artemis as a wonder to the Ottomans or Turkey, since it was build by a different culture and population and destroyed long before those two came around.
and yes @Eagle Pursuit I wondered about the minarets all over the place as well...