[R&F] Rise and Fall General Discussion Thread

Please can we not have both Canada and Georgia? I don't want either, but if we must, can we keep it to only one? We have such a limited number of slots...

(I say as though I won't love the expac and play as each civ anyway)
 
Please can we not have both Canada and Georgia? I don't want either, but if we must, can we keep it to only one? We have such a limited number of slots...

(I say as though I won't love the expac and play as each civ anyway)
Yes, please to Georgia; no thanks to Canada. ;)
 
Georgia is cool, although I'd prefer David the Builder over Tamar.
Canada is second largest country in the world and quite big economic power. I can't say they don't have right to be in the game.
 
Is there any evidence the Harappan were unified and not a series of city states with a shared culture? I know we've had Celt and Scythian, but at least they were contemporary names used for the people. The only name we have referring to the Harappan are from Sumer, where they're called Meluhha (thought to be Mel Akam in proto-Dravidian).
As far as I’m aware, no. And this will likely remain the case unless the Indus script can be deciphered. Although many of the cities in the region shared similar traits in terms of how they were structured, the technology they used, and the culture evidenced within them, we have no way of knowing whether they were governed separately or under one leader collectively. Nevertheless, they can still be classed as a cohesive civilisation.
 
Just before we see the "Leader icons" which suggest Mr Khan, we do see Mongolia's Civ5 colours in the background of the blurred screenshots; burgundy with orange.

I think I also see their Civ5 "flame" symbol too.

I also think they might have a unique encampment? There seems to be a building on the edge of the wooden picket fence that I don't think we've seen before.

Spoiler Colours :
Spoiler Encampment :

Holy wow, good find. Kinda disappointed that they're going with the same colour scheme as in Civ V though.
 
Georgia is cool, although I'd prefer David the Builder over Tamar.
Canada is second largest country in the world and quite big economic power. I can't say they don't have right to be in the game.
I can and will. Brazil in the base game was already pushing the post-colonial limits, and with Australia we now have quite enough former colonies--particularly English-speaking former colonies of Britain--in the game to last us for the rest of this incarnation. Maybe Canada can get in line for Civ7 in place of Australia. ;)
 
Canada is second largest country in the world and quite big economic power. I can't say they don't have right to be in the game.

Is landmass or a not-top-5 economy of their time really worth building a Civ around? I get the marketing angle from Firaxis' standpoint and I get the national pride of playing with your Civ from a Canadian player's standpoint, but what does Canada bring to the table that's not already covered by another Civ already in the game (aside from TSL coverage)?
 
Is landmass or a not-top-5 economy of their time really worth building a Civ around? I get the marketing angle from Firaxis' standpoint and I get the national pride of playing with your Civ from a Canadian player's standpoint, but what does Canada bring to the table that's not already covered by another Civ already in the game (aside from TSL coverage)?

It's pretty interesting question, what a civ should bring to the game to be included. From developers perspective only 1 thing - more players to buy the game. To achieve this the civ could have a combination of:
1. Local players interested in playing their own country, inspired with addtional free marketing from mass media.
2. Interesting representation in popular culture (since hardcore history fans are a minority).
3. Place in TSL map to appeal existing TSL players. Yes, I believe that's quite a reason too.

I'd say Canada fills 2 of 3.

Other than this I don't think any civ can't bring anything to the table which can;t be covered by another civ. If you point your finger at any country living large enough, like France, England or Russia, you'll find conquests, revolutions, hard defences, scientific and cultural achievements and so on, so forth. Choosing a thing to focus is primarily a gameplay question.
 
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Canada produces a disproportionate number of great entertainers of various fields.

Oh, and this video game series we are fans of is named after a Canadian.

Well then, there you go: a Canadian is in the title of the game. What more representation could you ask for? :p
 
History shows how much I like collecting tooltips. Here’s some new/improved so far

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KOTOKU-IN
Wonder
Base Cost: 710 Production

+20% Faith in this city. Grants 4 Warrior Monks.

Must be built adjacent to a Holy Site district with a Temple. Warrior Monks can only be received if player has founded a religion or if there is a majority religion for this player or city.

Requires:
* Temple (Holy Site)
* Must be adjacent to a Holy Site

———————————

Also, the wonder name isn’t Archivos. Here’s the updated Cartography tooltip (you can see the previous one in-game or in my un-updated document)

CARTOGRAPHY
361 Science

+2 Gold from the Fishing Boat improvement. All naval and embarked units can navigate Ocean tiles.

Building: Casa de Contractación
Unit: Caravel

———————————

And confirmation of Taj Mahal

HUMANISM
361 Culture

Unlocks:
* Building: Archaeological Museum
* Building: Art Museum
* Building: Taj Mahal
* Policy: Frescoes
* Policy: Invention

Makes Obsolete:
* Policy: Revelation

———————————

By the way, should we be glad they don’t name it Kremlin this time.

REFORMED CHURCH
268 Culture

Unlocks:
* Building: St. Basil’s Cathedral
* Government: Theocracy
* Policy: Religious Orders
* Policy: Simultaneum
* Policy: Wars of Religion

———————————

Oh, I got an unit tooltips!

PIKE AND SHOT
Unit
Promotion Class: Anti Cavalry
Base Cost: 250 Production
Maintenance: 4 Gold

Late Renaissance era anti-cavalry unit.

Melee Strength: 55
Movement: 2

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I’ve put this in the feature thread as well. Now go discuss! (because we can’t discuss there lol)
 
Also, the wonder name isn’t Archivos. Here’s the updated Cartography tooltip (you can see the previous one in-game or in my un-updated document)

CARTOGRAPHY
361 Science

+2 Gold from the Fishing Boat improvement. All naval and embarked units can navigate Ocean tiles.

Building: Casa de Contractación
Unit: Caravel

Well, both the Archivo and the Casa de Contratacion are institutions and seem to have used that building at some point in time. "Archive" (as you need to store more things), seems more linked to the building, but the Casa de Contratacions fits more the age and Tech. I suppose the wonder would be more focused then on (maritime) trade than on loyalty. The Casa de Contratacion ensured the government monopoly of the American trade.

Will it make it a double of the Colossus? When is trading over ocean allowed? Might it advance that?
 
Well, both the Archivo and the Casa de Contratacion are institutions and seem to have used that building at some point in time. "Archive" (as you need to store more things), seems more linked to the building, but the Casa de Contratacions fits more the age and Tech. I suppose the wonder would be more focused then on (maritime) trade than on loyalty. The Casa de Contratacion ensured the government monopoly of the American trade.

Will it make it a double of the Colossus? When is trading over ocean allowed? Might it advance that?

It could be an econ wonder, but I have a feeling it could boost oversea city loyalty too, the idea being that the Casa was important in keeping tabs on Spanish colonial and maritime activities to an infinitely obsessive level.

The Taj is a more complex beast: will it still relate to golden ages, even though those operate on an entirely different level? The Era Score is point-based, so what could a wonder do other than add points, which presumably all wonders do?
 
It could be an econ wonder, but I have a feeling it could boost oversea city loyalty too, the idea being that the Casa was important in keeping tabs on Spanish colonial and maritime activities to an infinitely obsessive level.

The Taj is a more complex beast: will it still relate to golden ages, even though those operate on an entirely different level? The Era Score is point-based, so what could a wonder do other than add points, which presumably all wonders do?

I could see the Casa giving you a bundle of Governor's Titles or increasing your title generation.

The Taj Mahal might be an Era point bomb that virtually guarantees a Golden Age?
 
Your ages last 80 turns on epic? Even with 8 Ages of Pace they last about half of that for me.

I was calculating with "requiring most of the turns until the game actually finishes" (8*80=640, so 110 turns left), I have to admit I'm not the best at finishing games, but the one game I did finish (playing with 8AoP) I actually needed about 30-35 turns per era in total, which was on normal speed (so about 50 on epic).

What I kind of want to see, however, a game duration that belongs to this game's epic (say, about 450-700 turns) but with production costs like on normal or even a bit faster, and that's a balance that cannot really be found, as production costs are simply too high for how long I want the game to last, no matter the science/culture costs, unless score victory gets disabled.
 
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