[R&F] Rise and Fall General Discussion Thread

[Giskler]

what's the guy on the right holding?

He's a spotter and using a spotting scope.

 

[Phrozen]

Looks like a range finder.

 

[liv]

They are not very strong for that period. I think the ability to attack support units is a good one. But AI does not really build or use any support units. Last time I saw a battering ram it was wandering around without any units attach to it like settlers do sometimes. I have never seen an AI Balloon.

 

[Disgustipated]

Aren't support units just captured? I didn't think you could attack them.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

Aren't support units just captured? I didn't think you could attack them.

This unit apparently can, albeit at range. I think Anton said it does 50 damage to support units.

 

[Thormodr]

Sounds like a great scientific alliance partner to me.

Do you really want to give the tech leader more science? I would think that you’d want to do that with an AI that was not in the lead.

 

[liv]

I do not think they are ever captured. If I remember correctly when I saw that battery ram I just killed it off??????

Aren't support units just captured? I didn't think you could attack them.

 

[Lily_Lancer]

20 Loyalty per kill is definitely a good amount.

So a strategy may be , don't kill wounded enemy units until you can kill 5 of them togerther, will this make any city flip immediately despite how much loyalty per turn it generates?

 

[UWHabs]

20 Loyalty per kill is definitely a good amount.

So a strategy may be , don't kill wounded enemy units until you can kill 5 of them togerther, will this make any city flip immediately despite how much loyalty per turn it generates?

Yeah, if you can kill any 5 units within city limits on the same turn, it's immediately free. I doubt you could do that with the AI, since they'd probably suicide them on you (do you also get loyalty from defensive kills?). Best is probably to run a surprise war and you can potentially take all those units out on turn 1 to flip a city.

 

[pgm123]

Yeah, if you can kill any 5 units within city limits on the same turn, it's immediately free. I doubt you could do that with the AI, since they'd probably suicide them on you (do you also get loyalty from defensive kills?). Best is probably to run a surprise war and you can potentially take all those units out on turn 1 to flip a city.

Can you get more than 20 per turn?

 

[Thormodr]

From @Giskler 's Screenshot thread... (Note: Requires Plastics tech via @AriochIV 's website.)

Them are some big 'ol hands!

No kidding! Firaxis artists must have a huge hand fetish. Lol.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Well, I think we all say snide remarks to the AI when we are playing, don’t we?

I just bemoan the fact that Seondeok is going to descend to Pedro levels of irritation very quickly.

As for playing Korea, I suppose I will give it a go sometime. I do like their music.

I'm still waiting for the AI opponent who will love to build Anti-Cavalry Units and will like people that don't. Maybe it will be Shaka. Therefore he will be everybody's friend

 

[Thormodr]

I'm still waiting for the AI opponent who will love to build Anti-Cavalry Units and will like people that don't. Maybe it will be Shaka. Therefore he will be everybody's friend

Shaka is everyone's friend. He will bring the love in Civ VI, Shaka style.

 

[Lily_Lancer]

I'm still waiting for the AI opponent who will love to build Anti-Cavalry Units and will like people that don't. Maybe it will be Shaka. Therefore he will be everybody's friend

Or maybe his agenda is that he only likes people who build more than he does, making him more "friendly".

 

[King William I]

I hope that's not the case. He can't keep being my nemesis if I'm always fulfilling his agenda

 

[ferretbacon]

Does anyone else think that the Foreign Ministry (tier 2 Government Plaza building) is a bit underwhelming?

"Leveraging City States costs half Gold. Leveraged Units gain +4 Combat Strength."

Maybe it's because I rarely leverage units, but even if someone does leverage units commonly, it's still situational. It would be better if, in addition to what it already does, it provided +1 envoy point per turn. As it stands, I'll probably almost never build it. The Intelligence Agency seems like the most generally useful building unless you're playing a religious game, in which case you'd build the Grand Master's Chapel.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

Does anyone else think that the Foreign Ministry (tier 2 Government Plaza building) is a bit underwhelming?

"Leveraging City States costs half Gold. Leveraged Units gain +4 Combat Strength."

Maybe it's because I rarely leverage units, but even if someone does leverage units commonly, it's still situational. It would be better if, in addition to what it already does, it provided +1 envoy point per turn. As it stands, I'll probably almost never build it. The Intelligence Agency seems like the most generally useful building unless you're playing a religious game, in which case you'd build the Grand Master's Chapel.

It would be amazing for Gilgabro.

 

[ferretbacon]

It would be amazing for Gilgabro.

I could have sworn he had some sort of leveraging component to his LUA, but I didn't find anything about it when I looked him up. What am I forgetting?

Edit: ah, found it. It's part of Epic Quest, not Adventures with Enkidu. Civ Analyst didn't have Epic Quest's complete description.

Yeah, it would be pretty nice for him. Pretty "meh" for everyone else.

 

[Trengilly]

Does anyone else think that the Foreign Ministry (tier 2 Government Plaza building) is a bit underwhelming?

All the level 2 buildings are pretty specific.

Faith buying units is great - if you are generating faith and are warmongering - but otherwise useless.
The super spies are nice but its not hard to level up a few spies anyway and you can only use so many.
And then the Foreign Ministry CS levy. Its so situational.

I think most of the time I'm just going to be picking one for the +1 governor title and so I can build one of the Tier 3 buildings.

 

[Katakanja]

Maybe it's because I rarely leverage units, but even if someone does leverage units commonly, it's still situational. It would be better if, in addition to what it already does, it provided +1 envoy point per turn. As it stands, I'll probably almost never build it. The Intelligence Agency seems like the most generally useful building unless you're playing a religious game, in which case you'd build the Grand Master's Chapel.

I don't think I have ever bothered to levy a city-state up to this point, not even to get that army of Cthulhu achievement. However given how rarely the mechanic itself even gets mentioned here on the forum, it seems like its common that most people don't make much use of it/forget it even exists. This makes me wonder if perhaps there's a bunch of unexploited strategies to do with levying that no one has really uncovered since it feels like an overlooked mechanic... If you had a way to build up a large stockpile of gold in the early game, I could see levying as being useful for putting together a rush of weaker, expendable units perhaps...

But yeah, what Trengilly said. It looks like the buildings are meant to be highly specific, and you have to take into account that they have additional effects like unlocking a legacy policy on top of the building's innate ability. That being said, a little buff to levying in general might be nice to patch in at some point in the future to make it more attractive to leaders other than Gilga. Perhaps a minor combat strength boost for levied CS units based on how many envoys you have sent to them, to simulate closer ties between your empire and these "mercenaries"?