[R&F] Rise and Fall General Discussion Thread

First time I see the AI settle this kind of completely random city in my R&F games:
289070_20180302222238_1.png

Free city, I guess...


I think it's way too easy to get Golden Age streaks, the penalties for amount of cities and amount of golden ages you had isn't enough. Dark Ages should happen more often without the need to go into one on purpose. I would be okay if they increase the points per city to 1.5 and golden ages to 7. They could also increase the bonus per dark age you had to 7, to balance it out. I still didn't get a dark age in my games, I doubt I will get one even though I build a fair amount of cities and keep getting golden ages.
 
leandrombraz said:
I think it's way too easy to get Golden Age streaks, the penalties for amount of cities and amount of golden ages you had isn't enough. Dark Ages should happen more often without the need to go into one on purpose. I would be okay if they increase the points per city to 1.5 and golden ages to 7. They could also increase the bonus per dark age you had to 7, to balance it out. I still didn't get a dark age in my games, I doubt I will get one even though I build a fair amount of cities and keep getting golden ages.
Click to expand...

It actually depends a lot on the number of cities. If you grow too much, golden age limit becomes too high and even normal age becomes a real challenge. Yesterday I got Industrial dark age as Tamar. That was painful.
 
Have had 2 dark ages and they are spectacular. Plus 2 food/production and 100% experience?? Amazing for a domination game.
 
My current Scotland game is not going as planned. I got off to a good start, where I built the Temple of Artemis in a great spot by my capital, founded a nice second city, and then, Spain declared war against me. I was in a pretty good tactical position at the time, with a decent force of archers and warriors close enough to help, and my capital protected by a river. I quickly destroyed the attacking force, and moved my troops to Spain, and so my plan to go somewhat tall was ruined. Taking the two Spanish cities was just too tempting, and now I need to feel the gap in between, as well as the lands which will be sealed off in the north. I am close to founding my sixth city already, and have plotted out four more. Oh well. :-)

I did get my first emergency when capturing Madrid. It was over in just 6 turns (playing on epic speed), when I captured the second and last Spanish city. That was an easy 600 gold. I hope there will be some more challenging emergencies later.
 
Haven't bought this yet! I got a bit bored of base game and stopped playing

Reading between the lines the general consensus is its a worthwhile buy?
 
trev1972 said:
Haven't bought this yet! I got a bit bored of base game and stopped playing

Reading between the lines the general consensus is its a worthwhile buy?
Click to expand...
Absolutely. The only mechanics that still don't work right are ceding (don't do it/don't let the AI do it to you) and air power.

Everything else is mostly functional, the AI is much improved, loyalty is fun and can be a challenge if you don't plan around it (and the AI mostly knows how to deal with it, which is nice), navy vs. land has been rebalanced.
 
Finished my game on the Firaxis Earth map. It's a hard map to get golden ages. I've noticed the ease of getting golden ages seems related to the map type. The AI really struggled with golden and normal ages. The last age of this game was the Atomic age and all the AI civs except one were in a dark age. I got golden age (I had Taj Mahal), but I wasn't able to get golden age every time. It was often very close, though got easier after Taj. There's a screenshot in the AI can't take cities with city walls thread if anyone is curious. You can see how the new civs fill out the Earth map. This game was with barbarians off.
 
First full R&F game, TSL Europe as Rome. Was having a blast in a Golden Age taking free cities from a previously crippled Poland. Then I flipped into a dark age while my only Ally France has just started a Golden age. Suddenly my most populous city, basically London (except I settled the empty British Isles), is on verge of rebellion to France. Gonna be fun re-coordinating my governors and settling new cities to secure it. I really don't want to have to capture it, losing half the population minimum in a rebellion.

Edit: I moved all of my governors, Amani was established in Amsterdam, and I settled new cities in Wales and Northern England (in addition to my cities in Scotland and Ireland). With all of that, I managed to slow the rebellion long enough to switch to a cultural alliance, and secure the safety and loyalty of my British territories.
 
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Wow. I didn't think this thread was still going!

So far I have played and won as every single civ/leader with the exception of Zulu (who I am currently waiting to finish a multiplayer game as them) and Chandragupta (Playing Civ6 for almost a month now non stop dose tire you out eventually...)

So far my judgement of each new Civ6:

- Cree are great fun and the absolute best with a unique and independent playstyle where you focus on Trade Routes and Mekewaps.

- Mapuche where my most sceptical inclusion as they were all combat orientated with the exception of their tile improvement. But I found myself focusing on my tile improvement for the entire game and it was great fun! The awesome music really helped my enjoyment too! (Reminds me of Pokémon Mystery Dungeon)

- Zulu is the Civ I most dreaded as they were always going to be all combat orientated, to which they are with a few loyalty bonuses and a housing bonus for their unique encampments. However I find them one if thd most enjoyabke Civs ever as thier sound track, both main theme and ambient themes, as pure brilliance! I love them so much and I did not think anything could beat the Khmer's theme!

- Scotland is... Meh. Their music is great but their bonuses are mostly hidden and unnoticeable. I like to see things on the map and adjacenties so I couldn't see much in terms of bonuses, just more of an incentive to keep up your amenities. The Golf course is a bit lack luster and I never ever got Bannockburn to work with the exception of one very very meta method.

- Netherlands are very annoying. The river bonuses are great and ship is cool, but the shear difficuty to place their Polders (For most people; their main focus) is just the most irritable feature of all. Just get are more frequent on Old world archelpegos but I want to play on Continents mostly so everone gets a fair chance. I didn't really notice their trade route bonuses or harbour culture bombs.

- Georgia is quite forgettble. Their unit is missable and I find I don't need more points to remain in a Golden Age. I love building walls but other then the 3 faith I felt that their unique ones are no different from normal ones taking forever to build and no real bonuses to them. I never got to declare a protectate war but the religious conversion doubles new envoys is the only good thing about Georgia really. Music is ok but doesn't evolve as much though the eras, I can't really tell what era I am in from just listening like other Civs.

- Korea was great fun with their whole seowan gameplay meaning you devote tour whole game to getting more food and science. The music is excellent too.

- Mongolia was my last Civ6 to play as and it was quite a slog. I hate games were I am a combat based Civ6 as they are not fun for me. I am a expansionist but not a world conquer. Mongolia to me feels the exact same as Scythia, but instead of double light cavalry and healing on defeat, you get more powerful cavalry and the slim chance of capturing other cavalry units. The gold and faith tile improvement from Scythia is just replaced with more movement for your cavalry. I do place Mongolia joint last in my most enjoyable Civs accompanying Scythia and Macedon, but unlike the Zulu, Mongolia doesn't have that good of a sound track which is annoying as I love no Mongolia throat singing and strings, but the music we got was just... par.

So my rankings for the new Civs are:
  1. Cree
  2. Mapuche
  3. Zulu
  4. Netherlands
  5. Korea
  6. Scotland
  7. Georgia
  8. CIV6_R&F_CIV_RANK_8
  9. [##ERROR_THERE_ARE_ONLY_8_NEW_CIVS##]
  10. Mongolia

...I already want some more Civs!

EDIT: Updated with rankings.
 
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I loved Mongolia for classic Deity horse domination, however the keshik is pretty weak, I just built a few while having 20+horseman and knight.
It is very strange and the the same time interesting for me in civ 6 that mounted upgrades are going in two steps, and you always have a weak unit that you have to use for support role (executing weak units/pillage) but you need to protect as they will be the strong one next.
(war chariot > horseman then horseman is weak but chariot become knight, then knight is weak but horseman becomes Calvary, then knight becomes tank etc)
With mongols they move 6 after the promotion, or 7 with the home policy, which is very versatile.

small edit: it is not slim chance, actually in deity I often captured war charts with knights which can be around 75% then they can be upgraded to knights.
 
Has someone figured out when the Bread & Circuses project gives +1 and when +0.5 Loyalty pressure per each Citizen in the city? Does it depend on the city production or the current age?
 
Arilian said:
however the keshik is pretty weak
Click to expand...

You are playing deity? I can see how they would be weak at that level. I'm playing my 2nd game of Mongolia right now. I'm pretty happy with them. Though I'm hitting so much rough terrain it is slowing down my conquests. I find I can take down ancient walls pretty easy with them, but of course on deity you won't be seeing ancient walls. Medieval walls I generally need the help of the battering ram.

I am playing the expanded Earth map mod along with expanded religion mod. Interesting thing about this mod is the AI is building a ton of units. Perhaps because they are so boxed in. This has slowed down my conquest a bit as well. But I enjoyed the extra challenge. Chandragupta has been the most challenge, and he was my 3rd conquest after China and Korea. I had to sacrifice some horseman for that one. His cities reinforced with Varu had pretty high strength. And horseman by this point were becoming weak and I only had one knight built so far. Conquered Indonesia, Russia, Persia, and Nubia after that. Loyalty has been tough, but managing through my continuous golden ages. Fighting Kongo now, more jungles, ugh. I'll probably quit once I hit steel since I don't actually have any siege units. Then wait for bombers.

Yeah it was a design decision to go every other era with units. But it is strange having units idle and largely useless. My horseman are still good for pillaging trade routes, but at this point very vulnerable. I lost all of mine against Chandragupta but built 2 more and got a few more through combat victories. My Keshigs are getting vulnerable too, a crossbowman can almost 2 shot one of my keshigs. I almost had a heart attack losing a 5 promotion unit. I am Suzerain of Kabul, so my units are picking up some decent xp. I beelined towards Keshigs so I was ahead for a while, but now a lot of musketmen are out. I'll try to keep it going until Steel.
 
So, I finished my Scotland game, and things got right silly. Don't get me wrong, I like Scotland, and had fun with the game, but I ended up going a little bit wider than intended (maybe around 14 cities in the end, small map), and became absurdly dominant. I did get my first Normal Age in Rise and fall, but on the next age I overshot the Golden Age threshold by around 80. That was with the brakes applied, I probably could have made that 100 if I wanted to. I was also making ridiculous amounts of great people points, for example 80-90 for Great Engineers.

With regards to Scotland's abilities, I loved the extra GPP, and completely eclipsed everyone else in culture and science. The Highlander was pretty nice, and the Golf Course was mostly useless for me in this playthrough. I also never got a chance to declare a War of Liberation.

My next civ will be The Netherlands or Korea. They have improved the Polder now, I am happy about that.

Seeing how easy it is to get Golden Ages, Georgia is looking rather weak at this point. It looks like their strongest feature is their excellent musical score, but that is not really a gameplay advantage.
 
Scotland UA + Oracle + Divine spark + Classical Republic legacy = soloing all great Scientists and Engineers
 
Played Culture with Australia on deity and man was it ever fun. First game I had where I wasn't sure if I wanted it to end, normally the end game is just next turn doing make busy work until winning
 
I think Georgia is the weakest of the new civs. Tried several games on level "king" and never even managed to found a religion. What can you do if the AI gets all prophets in a very short time?
And then the Georgian unique ability is basically worthless.
 
Tuvok694 said:
I think Georgia is the weakest of the new civs. Tried several games on level "king" and never even managed to found a religion. What can you do if the AI gets all prophets in a very short time?
And then the Georgian unique ability is basically worthless.
Click to expand...
Not just that, but chaining Golden Ages is very easy to do at Marathon speed for almost any civ, not just Georgia.
 
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