Thanks a lot
....Hannibal Barkas is a king unit or you can produced him in every city (like a swordsman)
Rise and Fall of House Julii
- Thread starter The Guardian
- Start date
Thanks a lot
....Hannibal Barkas is a king unit or you can produced him in every city (like a swordsman)
The Guardian
Praetorian
Thanks a lot
Not in this MOD
.The unit is an auto-produced General with attack and defense values. This is a powerful unit representing a general and his body guard units. There are other similar units in the MOD, like Roman Tribunes, Roman Consuls, and Greek Strategos.
Jerry'sGoldfish
Emperor
we will play like crazy!!!!!!!!!!!! 
The Guardian
Praetorian
We will be using many of the existing naval units.
Terrible silence hereWhen can we expect to complete the work?
Agree, the silence is ominous, but then perhaps a little holiday. I have heard that some folks still have the luxury of that thing ;-)
I´m counting that we soon see movement and in the end a great mod with lots of new Imperator units to drool over.
The Guardian
Praetorian
Sorry to keep you all hanging.
Been very busy the last few months. I have been in the process of building a new house. ( 2816 SF )Target date for release is 12/24/2012.
Sorry to keep you all hanging.
Target date for release is 12/24/2013.
Maybe is mistake...24.12.2012 no 2013
The Guardian
Praetorian
Yup, 2012 is correct 
nick0515
C7 Fanatic
Hey Guardian I want to apologise for not doing much testing. I too have been very busy. We are very short staffed at work and I have been pretty stressed out because I'm not sure if I will still have a job at the end of the year because they are closing my library and merging the staff and collection with another one.
Will try to resume testing soon though.
Will try to resume testing soon though.
Wolfshade
Little Winger
As a member of testing team I'll add some info too.
Currently there's a huge Mediterranean + Middle East map. It's an advantage (room for everything one can imagine), but it's a drawback - I stopped testing of the 2nd "build" on turn 194 playing as Iberia (Spain), to that time I met only 2 civs (Gauls & Etruscans located too far to wage trade/war) and 2nd generation of units became actual. As you may concern, the gameplay was not very interesting and was about developing civ's territory, not an action (for me personally development & war should take 50/50 of time). I PM'ed Guardian with few suggestions, so we have ideas to try. A radical suggestion may be to switch to another map, but it shouldn't be a rash decision.
Also, currently Guardian integrated a fair (IMHO) combat system. It provides a fair enough result and gives definitive roles to all kind of troops so a mix of forces needed, not a stack of swordsmen. I tested it in my own mod and I like it a lot, so minor adjustments needed only.
One more question to discuss is a challenge (it deals with map too). When you, as player, have 40 cities and your rival has 40, there's a question - how many cities you have to conquer to know your enemy is defeated? 20? 30? 40? And estimate a number of turns you need to do it? 120 (3 turns per city for 40 cities)? 160? 200? So if you have 16 rivals each with 20 cities (320 goals), constantly fighting for 3 turns per city (most favourable conditions) you need a war of 320*3 = 960 turns. OK, you may agree to 50% of cities - 480 turns of constant war. Cities development? What a development if war consumes units? So it's an important question - what is a challenge and what is a victory.
Also, I suggested to implement a new (I didn't see it in scenarios I downloaded & played) system of cities development with specialization for each. Although a variant I described to Guardian doesn't work (AI doesn't handle it correctly), I already have a "plan B" with still a strategical planning of development. It's not tested completely, but in progress.
Once more "also", we (community) have a great project showing new dimension of terrain use - I'm talking about Storm Over Europe by Civinator. I already suggested to apply the same idea of "terrain programming" into the scenario. It should be hi-tec hi-end, yep.
So, there's a lot of mind work, as you may see. All ideas I suggest I test in my own mod, so I won't push Guardian - a new home is a very important thing, but I'll come with ready-made ideas & results at the needed time.
Currently there's a huge Mediterranean + Middle East map. It's an advantage (room for everything one can imagine), but it's a drawback - I stopped testing of the 2nd "build" on turn 194 playing as Iberia (Spain), to that time I met only 2 civs (Gauls & Etruscans located too far to wage trade/war) and 2nd generation of units became actual. As you may concern, the gameplay was not very interesting and was about developing civ's territory, not an action (for me personally development & war should take 50/50 of time). I PM'ed Guardian with few suggestions, so we have ideas to try. A radical suggestion may be to switch to another map, but it shouldn't be a rash decision.
Also, currently Guardian integrated a fair (IMHO) combat system. It provides a fair enough result and gives definitive roles to all kind of troops so a mix of forces needed, not a stack of swordsmen. I tested it in my own mod and I like it a lot, so minor adjustments needed only.
One more question to discuss is a challenge (it deals with map too). When you, as player, have 40 cities and your rival has 40, there's a question - how many cities you have to conquer to know your enemy is defeated? 20? 30? 40? And estimate a number of turns you need to do it? 120 (3 turns per city for 40 cities)? 160? 200? So if you have 16 rivals each with 20 cities (320 goals), constantly fighting for 3 turns per city (most favourable conditions) you need a war of 320*3 = 960 turns. OK, you may agree to 50% of cities - 480 turns of constant war. Cities development? What a development if war consumes units? So it's an important question - what is a challenge and what is a victory.
Also, I suggested to implement a new (I didn't see it in scenarios I downloaded & played) system of cities development with specialization for each. Although a variant I described to Guardian doesn't work (AI doesn't handle it correctly), I already have a "plan B" with still a strategical planning of development. It's not tested completely, but in progress.
Once more "also", we (community) have a great project showing new dimension of terrain use - I'm talking about Storm Over Europe by Civinator. I already suggested to apply the same idea of "terrain programming" into the scenario. It should be hi-tec hi-end, yep.
So, there's a lot of mind work, as you may see. All ideas I suggest I test in my own mod, so I won't push Guardian - a new home is a very important thing, but I'll come with ready-made ideas & results at the needed time.
The Guardian
Praetorian
As a member of testing team I'll add some info too.
Currently there's a huge Mediterranean + Middle East map. It's an advantage (room for everything one can imagine), but it's a drawback - I stopped testing of the 2nd "build" on turn 194 playing as Iberia (Spain), to that time I met only 2 civs (Gauls & Etruscans located too far to wage trade/war) and 2nd generation of units became actual. As you may concern, the gameplay was not very interesting and was about developing civ's territory, not an action (for me personally development & war should take 50/50 of time). I PM'ed Guardian with few suggestions, so we have ideas to try. A radical suggestion may be to switch to another map, but it shouldn't be a rash decision.
Also, currently Guardian integrated a fair (IMHO) combat system. It provides a fair enough result and gives definitive roles to all kind of troops so a mix of forces needed, not a stack of swordsmen. I tested it in my own mod and I like it a lot, so minor adjustments needed only.
One more question to discuss is a challenge (it deals with map too). When you, as player, have 40 cities and your rival has 40, there's a question - how many cities you have to conquer to know your enemy is defeated? 20? 30? 40? And estimate a number of turns you need to do it? 120 (3 turns per city for 40 cities)? 160? 200? So if you have 16 rivals each with 20 cities (320 goals), constantly fighting for 3 turns per city (most favourable conditions) you need a war of 320*3 = 960 turns. OK, you may agree to 50% of cities - 480 turns of constant war. Cities development? What a development if war consumes units? So it's an important question - what is a challenge and what is a victory.
Also, I suggested to implement a new (I didn't see it in scenarios I downloaded & played) system of cities development with specialization for each. Although a variant I described to Guardian doesn't work (AI doesn't handle it correctly), I already have a "plan B" with still a strategical planning of development. It's not tested completely, but in progress.
Once more "also", we (community) have a great project showing new dimension of terrain use - I'm talking about Storm Over Europe by Civinator. I already suggested to apply the same idea of "terrain programming" into the scenario. It should be hi-tec hi-end, yep.
So, there's a lot of mind work, as you may see. All ideas I suggest I test in my own mod, so I won't push Guardian - a new home is a very important thing, but I'll come with ready-made ideas & results at the needed time.
The scenario release coming in December will be a Beta version, specifically due to the items mentioned by Wolfshade. I have tried testing some of these ideas with mixed results and I can see some possibilities, but some tweeking will be needed. The game limitations make it impossible to incorperate all the things that I wanted to do. I am hoping that with this release we will get some CONSTRUCTIVE feedback that will help to improve the MOD.
The Guardian
Praetorian
As a member of testing team I'll add some info too.
Currently there's a huge Mediterranean + Middle East map. It's an advantage (room for everything one can imagine), but it's a drawback - I stopped testing of the 2nd "build" on turn 194 playing as Iberia (Spain), to that time I met only 2 civs (Gauls & Etruscans located too far to wage trade/war) and 2nd generation of units became actual. As you may concern, the gameplay was not very interesting and was about developing civ's territory, not an action (for me personally development & war should take 50/50 of time). I PM'ed Guardian with few suggestions, so we have ideas to try. A radical suggestion may be to switch to another map, but it shouldn't be a rash decision.
Also, currently Guardian integrated a fair (IMHO) combat system. It provides a fair enough result and gives definitive roles to all kind of troops so a mix of forces needed, not a stack of swordsmen. I tested it in my own mod and I like it a lot, so minor adjustments needed only.
One more question to discuss is a challenge (it deals with map too). When you, as player, have 40 cities and your rival has 40, there's a question - how many cities you have to conquer to know your enemy is defeated? 20? 30? 40? And estimate a number of turns you need to do it? 120 (3 turns per city for 40 cities)? 160? 200? So if you have 16 rivals each with 20 cities (320 goals), constantly fighting for 3 turns per city (most favourable conditions) you need a war of 320*3 = 960 turns. OK, you may agree to 50% of cities - 480 turns of constant war. Cities development? What a development if war consumes units? So it's an important question - what is a challenge and what is a victory.
Also, I suggested to implement a new (I didn't see it in scenarios I downloaded & played) system of cities development with specialization for each. Although a variant I described to Guardian doesn't work (AI doesn't handle it correctly), I already have a "plan B" with still a strategical planning of development. It's not tested completely, but in progress.
Once more "also", we (community) have a great project showing new dimension of terrain use - I'm talking about Storm Over Europe by Civinator. I already suggested to apply the same idea of "terrain programming" into the scenario. It should be hi-tec hi-end, yep.
So, there's a lot of mind work, as you may see. All ideas I suggest I test in my own mod, so I won't push Guardian - a new home is a very important thing, but I'll come with ready-made ideas & results at the needed time.
The scenario release coming in December will be a Beta version, specifically due to the items mentioned by Wolfshade. I have tried testing some of these ideas with mixed results and I can see some possibilities, but some tweeking will be needed. The game limitations make it impossible to incorperate all the things that I wanted to do. I am hoping that with this release we will get some CONSTRUCTIVE feedback that will help to improve the MOD.
nick0515
C7 Fanatic
I'd agree that a switch to a smaller map is probably necessary. I have mostly played as the Romans but I did start a game as the Germans which I abandoned because of lack of prospects of interactions with other Civs. This was not a problem with Rome as in both games war with the Etruscans came relatively quickly.
I must say that other than issues with speed of the game it is a wonderfully well designed mod with huge potential!
I must say that other than issues with speed of the game it is a wonderfully well designed mod with huge potential!
The Guardian
Praetorian
The map is indeed very large. There are reasons for the various civs being placed as they are. Most of the barbaric civs are relatively isolated. This was done to give them a chance to develop relatively unmolested. The civs located in Asia minor, are more closely located to allow more interaction, which is more historically accurate. The greek civs are located historically and will see much interaction. NW Africa is of course dominated by Carthage with Egypt as a somewhat distant neighbor. The Romans now have two more adversaries to contend with. the Lucanians and the Tarantines. Neither of these civs can expand their territory, nor are they a great threat, however, if you are Rome, you will ignore them at your own peril. Especially if you are at war with Etruria early in the game, for they are allies. Conversely if you attack them early on, you will be inviting Etruria into the conflict.
Syracusae and Massilia are now independent Greek City States, as is Epirus. All of which are allied to the Greeks.
These alliances are another reason why the civs are spread out like they are. In ancient times, if Rome or Carthage went to war against Syracusae, it may have taken months before the rest of the Greek City States could respond. The same was true when Hannibal attacked Rome. It took time for the Romans to build and train the legions that they sent against him. In order for Hannibal to replenish he losses he was forced to make alliances with some of Romes local enemies, as getting re-enforcements from Carthage would have taken months.
The Guardian
Praetorian
Here are some of the last units that will be added to the final version of the MOD.
Spoiler :
Wolfshade
Little Winger
Finally, I have a little time to write a report about the build 3. I already reported about the Britons game progress to Guardian, so now I may report to all who waits.
I started a game as Britania, my neighbors are picts to the north, gauls to the south through the Dover strait.
My strategy for the game:
1) no neighbors on my island to consume my resources;
2) continental landing and development;
3) cajole gauls & teutonarii;
4) capture Massilia;
5) challenge the Rome.
OK, game is started with 2 cities each civ. And here, at the very start, there is a weakness point in the AI play - it started to build wonders. Picts started to build Barbarism - its effect is (+50% strength vs barbarians) and (+1 culture), I may start a Stonehenge... And this is 1st weak point of the AI play - while Picts build their pretty useless Barbarism, I build cities to boost science/economy/production and, what's most important, troops!
Finally, Picts completed Barbarism having 2 cities and 4 archers (defenders).
I have no Stonehenge (well, it's not a big problem), but have 7 cities and 2 copper fists: 4+4 & 3+3 spearmen and swordsmen. These are next to the archer generation of troops. This is a basis for task (1) completion... And it is completed pretty quickly - Picts built 2 more cities, but anyway I took them all. Task (1) is done.
Building more cities, I reached a tech which gave me boats. A basis for task (2) completion. But suddenly I understand my boats can't transport my settlers... Ugh. So it won't be a peaceful landing but a military campaign. OK. I need a couple of cities to start building settlers. And one more bad news - I can't settle Ireland.
One more bug - phantom resource bug. I even tried to start to build Alexander The Great Army, a national wonder of Greeks - I had a Macedonia resource.
I transported 8 spearmen, 6 swordsmen & 2 slingers-mercenaries (invisible, 2 moves, weaker than swordsman), met Gauls. I traded contacts to Gauls & Teutonarii (and everybody is annoyed with me - this is their problem, I'm safe on my island), gave a gift to Teutonarii not to disturb me while I'm at war with Gauls and, as expected, declared war to Gauls (they closer to my territory - easier reinforcement). Capturing 2 coastal cities (one of them close to the Lutetia, 15 pop, 2nd important city for Gauls), I met resistance of invisible (and average) mercenaries only - AI chooses to build only them. Since Gauls had only 6 cities (and I'm 15+), they accepted peace.
I started to build settlers in continental cities (I need more cities!) and reinforce my troops from Britania island. Suddenly, Gauls declared a war on me! That was unexpected, and the more unexpected was to see their galley moved to the island - I moved big part of troops to the continent... So, Gauls captured 1 of my undeveloped yet cities, but I retook it quickly enough using horsemen - I already unlocked an appropriate tech.
Being at war with Gauls, I captured 3 cities more (and of course Lutetia, which was so important), signed peace and took 100 gold from them. Since there's more income than outcome, so I don't afraid about the treasury, and theirs too. Task (2) is completed.
Being at peace, I started to build coastal cities to the west to avoid a border to Teutonarii. Next step is to go to Massilia, and I prepared 16+16 spears & swords, 4 slingers & 8 horsemen. That time I stopped for now because of the technical reason.
Technical reason is the game works very slow. In my own mod I have the same size map, around the same number of cities it works much quicker. So I gave up to wait for 2+ minutes turns and stopped. I have powerful enough PC and experienced no problems with other mods, or, at least, I saw the reason - full of cities and units map. But this situation looks a bit strange, this is an object to investigate.
From my story you may notice there's no historical accuracy in my doings. I asked Guardian about it and he answered "predictability is boring". I told another point of view - if player wants UNpredictability, let them play CCM or Worldwide. So this scenario is not historically accurate right now, and it's not about the Roman history - oppose to the RFRE
. The scenario is about Civ3 gameplay on the huge Europe map under Ancient era conditions. This how it is.
So, the next and big my question to Guardian was to decide whether the scenario should be "historically correct" but predictable, or just a gameplay (Picts & Gauls destroyed by evil Britons). I have no answer (I don't hurry, it's a hard choice) yet.
So, this is how it goes.
Summing up bugs:
1) wonders - slows AI development, pretty useless (see my Barbarism description), "nationalized" (no challenge in building them).
Suggestion:
- make wonders more powerful (+20k, city radius 3 in 5 turns -> resources);
- make them "cultural-depended" so it won't be good for human player not to build them.
2) mercenaries are preferred by AI and it doesn't build any other units except them, even they're average units.
Suggestion:
- using of autoproduction. Autoproductive building should be the small wonder.
3) slow working.
Suggestion:
- find and fix a reason.
4) historical inaccuracy.
Suggestion:
- to decide whether it's a worship to the (Rome and Civ3) or to the (Civ3 and, probably, Rome).
Please, feel free to ask additional questions.
I'm very short on time this period, but I'll try to answer to all.
Thanks!
PS One more note: map is too big, so there'll be almost impossible to capture all "historically correct" territory belonged to the Rome. In RFRE it was difficult - but it was a challenge.
I started a game as Britania, my neighbors are picts to the north, gauls to the south through the Dover strait.
My strategy for the game:
1) no neighbors on my island to consume my resources;
2) continental landing and development;
3) cajole gauls & teutonarii;
4) capture Massilia;
5) challenge the Rome.
OK, game is started with 2 cities each civ. And here, at the very start, there is a weakness point in the AI play - it started to build wonders. Picts started to build Barbarism - its effect is (+50% strength vs barbarians) and (+1 culture), I may start a Stonehenge... And this is 1st weak point of the AI play - while Picts build their pretty useless Barbarism, I build cities to boost science/economy/production and, what's most important, troops!
Finally, Picts completed Barbarism having 2 cities and 4 archers (defenders).
I have no Stonehenge (well, it's not a big problem), but have 7 cities and 2 copper fists: 4+4 & 3+3 spearmen and swordsmen. These are next to the archer generation of troops. This is a basis for task (1) completion... And it is completed pretty quickly - Picts built 2 more cities, but anyway I took them all. Task (1) is done.
Building more cities, I reached a tech which gave me boats. A basis for task (2) completion. But suddenly I understand my boats can't transport my settlers... Ugh. So it won't be a peaceful landing but a military campaign. OK. I need a couple of cities to start building settlers. And one more bad news - I can't settle Ireland.
One more bug - phantom resource bug. I even tried to start to build Alexander The Great Army, a national wonder of Greeks - I had a Macedonia resource.
I transported 8 spearmen, 6 swordsmen & 2 slingers-mercenaries (invisible, 2 moves, weaker than swordsman), met Gauls. I traded contacts to Gauls & Teutonarii (and everybody is annoyed with me - this is their problem, I'm safe on my island), gave a gift to Teutonarii not to disturb me while I'm at war with Gauls and, as expected, declared war to Gauls (they closer to my territory - easier reinforcement). Capturing 2 coastal cities (one of them close to the Lutetia, 15 pop, 2nd important city for Gauls), I met resistance of invisible (and average) mercenaries only - AI chooses to build only them. Since Gauls had only 6 cities (and I'm 15+), they accepted peace.
I started to build settlers in continental cities (I need more cities!) and reinforce my troops from Britania island. Suddenly, Gauls declared a war on me! That was unexpected, and the more unexpected was to see their galley moved to the island - I moved big part of troops to the continent... So, Gauls captured 1 of my undeveloped yet cities, but I retook it quickly enough using horsemen - I already unlocked an appropriate tech.
Being at war with Gauls, I captured 3 cities more (and of course Lutetia, which was so important), signed peace and took 100 gold from them. Since there's more income than outcome, so I don't afraid about the treasury, and theirs too. Task (2) is completed.
Being at peace, I started to build coastal cities to the west to avoid a border to Teutonarii. Next step is to go to Massilia, and I prepared 16+16 spears & swords, 4 slingers & 8 horsemen. That time I stopped for now because of the technical reason.
Technical reason is the game works very slow. In my own mod I have the same size map, around the same number of cities it works much quicker. So I gave up to wait for 2+ minutes turns and stopped. I have powerful enough PC and experienced no problems with other mods, or, at least, I saw the reason - full of cities and units map. But this situation looks a bit strange, this is an object to investigate.
From my story you may notice there's no historical accuracy in my doings. I asked Guardian about it and he answered "predictability is boring". I told another point of view - if player wants UNpredictability, let them play CCM or Worldwide. So this scenario is not historically accurate right now, and it's not about the Roman history - oppose to the RFRE
. The scenario is about Civ3 gameplay on the huge Europe map under Ancient era conditions. This how it is.So, the next and big my question to Guardian was to decide whether the scenario should be "historically correct" but predictable, or just a gameplay (Picts & Gauls destroyed by evil Britons). I have no answer (I don't hurry, it's a hard choice) yet.
So, this is how it goes.
Summing up bugs:
1) wonders - slows AI development, pretty useless (see my Barbarism description), "nationalized" (no challenge in building them).
Suggestion:
- make wonders more powerful (+20k, city radius 3 in 5 turns -> resources);
- make them "cultural-depended" so it won't be good for human player not to build them.
2) mercenaries are preferred by AI and it doesn't build any other units except them, even they're average units.
Suggestion:
- using of autoproduction. Autoproductive building should be the small wonder.
3) slow working.
Suggestion:
- find and fix a reason.
4) historical inaccuracy.
Suggestion:
- to decide whether it's a worship to the (Rome and Civ3) or to the (Civ3 and, probably, Rome).
Please, feel free to ask additional questions.
I'm very short on time this period, but I'll try to answer to all.
Thanks!
PS One more note: map is too big, so there'll be almost impossible to capture all "historically correct" territory belonged to the Rome. In RFRE it was difficult - but it was a challenge.
The Guardian
Praetorian
I have fixed the phantom resource bug.
I also have added the civ specific resources as a requirement for building settlers. This means that in order to build a settler, the city where you want to build a settler must be connect to the civs capital.
Regarding unit production:
I have mainly been concentrating on the Romans, Greeks and Carthaginians. However, when I encounter any of the other civs and notice some discrepancy, I try to address it or at least make a note to get back to it.
Resources:
Because of the civ specific resources (25), there are only 7 general strategic resource slots available. The 32 strategic/luxury resource limit has thus limited resource requirements for improvements and/or units, but has been useful in making civ specificity. Though I am not a big fan of auto-production, as I like to keep production choices in the hands of the player, I have included auto-production of certain unit types particularly with the Romans and to some extent with the Carthaginians and Greeks.
Historical:
All civ starting locations are placed historically. The map is historically accurate to a great extent. The inclusion of several of the civ is not exactly historical for the time period. The inclusion of Troy, Babylon, and the Medes, is not entirely accurate. I added them to "fill the gaps" so to speak and I the units were available.
Rather than stick to a historically accurate time line, I wanted to create a lot of what if possibilities for the player to explore. Needless to say, the Romans are definitely the strongest civ but not necessarily a forgone victor.
I have yet to discover the cause of the slowness that Wolf mentioned, and I am still looking at what may be causing it.
I want to thank Wolfshade for all his help in testing the MOD. Without his help, this would be an endless and impossible task to complete.
I will get back to you all as soon as possible.
I also have added the civ specific resources as a requirement for building settlers. This means that in order to build a settler, the city where you want to build a settler must be connect to the civs capital.
Regarding unit production:
I have mainly been concentrating on the Romans, Greeks and Carthaginians. However, when I encounter any of the other civs and notice some discrepancy, I try to address it or at least make a note to get back to it.
Resources:
Because of the civ specific resources (25), there are only 7 general strategic resource slots available. The 32 strategic/luxury resource limit has thus limited resource requirements for improvements and/or units, but has been useful in making civ specificity. Though I am not a big fan of auto-production, as I like to keep production choices in the hands of the player, I have included auto-production of certain unit types particularly with the Romans and to some extent with the Carthaginians and Greeks.
Historical:
All civ starting locations are placed historically. The map is historically accurate to a great extent. The inclusion of several of the civ is not exactly historical for the time period. The inclusion of Troy, Babylon, and the Medes, is not entirely accurate. I added them to "fill the gaps" so to speak and I the units were available.
Rather than stick to a historically accurate time line, I wanted to create a lot of what if possibilities for the player to explore. Needless to say, the Romans are definitely the strongest civ but not necessarily a forgone victor.
I have yet to discover the cause of the slowness that Wolf mentioned, and I am still looking at what may be causing it.
I want to thank Wolfshade for all his help in testing the MOD. Without his help, this would be an endless and impossible task to complete.
I will get back to you all as soon as possible.
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