Rise and Fall of the Roman Empire

[Keroro]

Continuing 100 BCE game from post 3098:

The Empire is now at war on three fronts, the British, Dacian and now Persian fronts. Persia has tons of troops on the border, and my armies are struggling to get into position to fight them off with the assistance of my allies the Armenians.

94 CE - Porolissum taken from the Dacians.

96 CE - Eboracum taken in Britannia, the Brits seem to be pretty weak now. In other news the Armenians take the poorly defended Persian city of Edessa. I'm slaughtering about 15 Persian Hippotoxotae per turn ATM.

100 CE - More units pour into the East, and the bloodbath escalates. I lose quite a few Miles Aux, but swathes of Persians go to meet Ahura Mazda in the next world. Scipio arrives in the East to shore up the defences.

106 CE - Durostorum and Luguvallium taken from the Brits. Thapsacus taken from the Persians. The Persians take back Edessa from the Armenians. I sense that most of the Persians are leaving me alone to try to attack Armenia, but my armies have pushed the battleline back far enough that I can pick the Persian units off as they march north.

112 CE - The tide has turned. I have about 50 Miles Aux, 150 Velites, 20 Cav and 3 armies now on the Eastern front, including a Traiani army. Dura Europos and Babylon fall to my troops, but War Weariness hits this turn. Massive trouble accross the Empire as the plebs complain of the taxes they bear.

115 CE - Golden Age ends, but the treasury is still in pretty good shape. Research is kept at 12 turns / tech. Covovium taken from Brits. Sarmizegetusa taken from Dacians and with the WW hitting hard I decide to leave Dacia with one city (Tomis). They can't do much damage to the Empire now. Seleucia taken from the Persians.

118 CE - Edessa taken from the Persians. Nisibis bribed from the Armenians. The Eastern front is looking very red indeed now.

121 CE - Isca Silurum taken. Ninive and Ctesiphon taken from the Persians. The campaign in the East is just about at an end, but I need to honour the 20 turn agreement with Armenia.

The Persian campaign turned out to be a massive success, though there were a few very sticky turns at the beginning there where I thought I might lose two or three cities. The Persian Hippotoxotae proved to be fairly fragile in the end, though the Sagitarius were very tough to beat. Incidentally, I have never really used the Roman Sagitarius before, but I built 4 or 5 and found them to be really useful on the Eastern front. The Dacian campaign turned into a real nightmare for my tropps due to the difficult terrain they had to march through, and Sarmizegetusa was really difficult to take (it took 6 turns of siege IIRC). In comparison, the British campaign became easier the further North I went.

Next priorities:
Finish the Eastern campaign honourably, without breaking alliance with Armenia. Maybe buy a few more Armenian cities.
Move a mass of troops over to the Germanic borders.
War with Germanics. The last challenge before the Empire reaches its historical height. I never had a war with Germany when I played RFRE before - I always chickened out and gave in to their demands. Not going to do that this time. I intend to take every city I can off them, then remain on and off war with them for the next 500 years.

 

[dreadknought]

Continuing 100 BCE game from post 3098:

The Empire is now at war on three fronts, the British, Dacian and now Persian fronts. Persia has tons of troops on the border, and my armies are struggling to get into position to fight them off with the assistance of my allies the Armenians.

94 CE - Porolissum taken from the Dacians.

96 CE - Eboracum taken in Britannia, the Brits seem to be pretty weak now. In other news the Armenians take the poorly defended Persian city of Edessa. I'm slaughtering about 15 Persian Hippotoxotae per turn ATM.

100 CE - More units pour into the East, and the bloodbath escalates. I lose quite a few Miles Aux, but swathes of Persians go to meet Ahura Mazda in the next world. Scipio arrives in the East to shore up the defences.

106 CE - Durostorum and Luguvallium taken from the Brits. Thapsacus taken from the Persians. The Persians take back Edessa from the Armenians. I sense that most of the Persians are leaving me alone to try to attack Armenia, but my armies have pushed the battleline back far enough that I can pick the Persian units off as they march north.

112 CE - The tide has turned. I have about 50 Miles Aux, 150 Velites, 20 Cav and 3 armies now on the Eastern front, including a Traiani army. Dura Europos and Babylon fall to my troops, but War Weariness hits this turn. Massive trouble accross the Empire as the plebs complain of the taxes they bear.

115 CE - Golden Age ends, but the treasury is still in pretty good shape. Research is kept at 12 turns / tech. Covovium taken from Brits. Sarmizegetusa taken from Dacians and with the WW hitting hard I decide to leave Dacia with one city (Tomis). They can't do much damage to the Empire now. Seleucia taken from the Persians.

118 CE - Edessa taken from the Persians. Nisibis bribed from the Armenians. The Eastern front is looking very red indeed now.

121 CE - Isca Silurum taken. Ninive and Ctesiphon taken from the Persians. The campaign in the East is just about at an end, but I need to honour the 20 turn agreement with Armenia.

The Persian campaign turned out to be a massive success, though there were a few very sticky turns at the beginning there where I thought I might lose two or three cities. The Persian Hippotoxotae proved to be fairly fragile in the end, though the Sagitarius were very tough to beat. Incidentally, I have never really used the Roman Sagitarius before, but I built 4 or 5 and found them to be really useful on the Eastern front. The Dacian campaign turned into a real nightmare for my tropps due to the difficult terrain they had to march through, and Sarmizegetusa was really difficult to take (it took 6 turns of siege IIRC). In comparison, the British campaign became easier the further North I went.

Next priorities:
Finish the Eastern campaign honourably, without breaking alliance with Armenia. Maybe buy a few more Armenian cities.
Move a mass of troops over to the Germanic borders.
War with Germanics. The last challenge before the Empire reaches its historical height. I never had a war with Germany when I played RFRE before - I always chickened out and gave in to their demands. Not going to do that this time. I intend to take every city I can off them, then remain on and off war with them for the next 500 years.

Very interesting report, Im doing ok on my 100bc. game but its getting more difficult, I will give a debriefing shortly. What level are you playing, Im trying dictator and its gets very tough indeed.

 

[dreadknought]

Here is a current update. 100 bc. Dictator level----

58 ad ---War w/ Germanics

82 ad--- Germanics concede Loangbardi for peace Raze it

84-- War with Germanics

92---We capture and raze Alemannia Superior

115 ---We capture and raze Colonia Agrippina

133 ad---We captur Fraci Rhemi---raze it

136 ad---Germanics concede Marcomanni raze it

139----WAR with Dacia, this is a tough one.

172--- We capture raze Naissus from Dacian, peace with Dacia

181 Scythians declare war

185--War with Dacia

193---Dacians destroy 2 armies, capture Fort near/city near Tibisum

195--We captur Dacian Oeseus/raze it---Peace with Dacia

209---War again w/ Germanics

243---Peace w/ Scythia for Hunni/We raze it.


STATUS---Well my economy went from very good to just manageble at this point. About to get and try the new catapults.

The Germanics are still contained by staying at almost constant war, they now have the upgraded calvarly. The most gratifying thing in the wars w/ Germanics and Scythians is the concession of several forbidden cities from them which I then raze, however they are still a threat. Germanics are down to around 7-8 cities and Im trying for more concessions.

The Dacians are quite tough and any raid to take one of their cities will likely be costly but I still plan to go at them again. So far everything has remained quiet on the Persian front. Its really interesting how the economy goes downhill here as things progress. My empire is basically intact with just 1 city falling to the Dacians , little good will it do them as far as I can tell. Its tough but fun, and thats what counts in my book. more later....

 

[Keroro]

@ Dread - I'm playing on Consul level. Of course the quicker you move to destroy the threats around you the easier it gets too. You're playing a clever game with the Germanics BTW, one that I intend to replicate shortly.

Let us all know how the experiment with the catapult goes. I'm thinking about shamelessly copying the idea for my Alexander' Conquests scenario.

 

[dreadknought]

@ Dread - I'm playing on Consul level. Of course the quicker you move to destroy the threats around you the easier it gets too. You're playing a clever game with the Germanics BTW, one that I intend to replicate shortly.

Let us all know how the experiment with the catapult goes. I'm thinking about shamelessly copying the idea for my Alexander' Conquests scenario.

Thx Keroro, My whole game has been played basically to contain the Germanics, I counted and they have 9 remaining cities so I hoping for more in concessions My biggest problem is I have never been able to get my science rate up and I wonder if dictator level slows my science rate in some way.

Building a couple of catapults as we speak.

 

[dreadknought]

Thx Keroro, My whole game has been played basically to contain the Germanics, I counted and they have 9 remaining cities so I hoping for more in concessions My biggest problem is I have never been able to get my science rate up and I wonder if dictator level slows my science rate in some way.

Building a couple of catapults as we speak.

UM, Goths decided to join the Germanics That will end my chances of containment, Too many free ai units, geez. The really sad part is I had the Germanics well controlled even with their incursors as long as we continued to stay at war.

I will try to find a area to make a stand as they by -passed my main army in the North so now Im having to use a scorched earth policy until they run out of steam.

 

[Gaias]

Wow. Seems like RFRE is still alive and kickin these days. Quite abit has happened since my recent hiatus from CivFanatics. Good to see one of my favorite mods for CivIII is still getting the attention (and play time) it deserves.

Well now that my real life is in order, I can refocus back onto something that is fun, like modding CivIII. As I still have plans to 'remake' RFRE into what I image it to be. Though I might have to put a halt on that idea if I am going to continue with the RFRE conversions (which I am in the process of doing). Hopefully I can manage both of these tasks, though I might just make the units as RFRE is in serious need of a graphical unit upgrade.

Well just dropped into say hi to the old RFRE gang and those of you that have current joined this awesome modification. Good Civvin!

 

[Keroro]

He's back - we might get the Triarii now. Welcome back Gaias.

 

[pinktilapia]

Just passing through. Good reports guys (although getting forbidden cities from the Germanics or Huns is to me a form of abuse eh!). BTW, they have settlers and should resettle these cities progressively. Or does this not happen? Gaias, please stay around till you have more of these spendid conversions ;P - and take a look at Primordial Stew's attempt to convert RFRE into Civ4!

 

[dreadknought]

Just passing through. Good reports guys (although getting forbidden cities from the Germanics or Huns is to me a form of abuse eh!). BTW, they have settlers and should resettle these cities progressively. Or does this not happen? Gaias, please stay around till you have more of these spendid conversions ;P - and take a look at Primordial Stew's attempt to convert RFRE into Civ4!

I did notice Germanics rebuild 1 city, Getting the forbidden cities is huge fun but of little real use to you.

My perspective is to play this at a high level (dictator or higher)the human player should get some concession,, to even attempt it is suicide to start with.

The biggest thing I would wont is 1 support per city for ROME, otherwise expansion has no benifit at all with the corruption and slave unrest factored in. You are actually better off to have a smaller more compact empire then is historically accurate.

Im also looking at the possibility that you are better off to just expand in the east and not even bother with the western side.


HEY I thought ROME had extra defense, GOTHS took it with no problem, if it has extra defensive bonus it didnt kick in.

 

[blitzkrieg80]

well, the main reason to have and hold western europe is so you don't get invaded from there later on by the Germanics which is semi-historical...

Rome does have +400 defense but it expires with SPQR around Sulla tech- correct me if I'm wrong? How did the Goths arrive at Rome's walls?? Is this awesome historical coincidence/design or did you set it up on purpose?

If the game is TOO EASY on Consul, then maybe try NOT cheating by taking forbidden cities j/k or try using army stacks that are historically composed of various units and not ALL legions or ALL velites or even primarily anything other than was the historical ratio

The Germans resettle so well usually they do it in not so great places, as the bad AI does (like near a bunch of Tundra or way too close to other cities)

WELCOME BACK, GAIUS... where's my RTR units? hehe

 

[dferrill]

Pure luck i accidently found this thread this looks like it might be a good mod downloading now, cant believe i missed this hope its worth it.

 

[dreadknought]

well, the main reason to have and hold western europe is so you don't get invaded from there later on by the Germanics which is semi-historical...

Rome does have +400 defense but it expires with SPQR around Sulla tech- correct me if I'm wrong? How did the Goths arrive at Rome's walls?? Is this awesome historical coincidence/design or did you set it up on purpose?

If the game is TOO EASY on Consul, then maybe try NOT cheating by taking forbidden cities j/k or try using army stacks that are historically composed of various units and not ALL legions or ALL velites or even primarily anything other than was the historical ratio

The Germans resettle so well usually they do it in not so great places, as the bad AI does (like near a bunch of Tundra or way too close to other cities)

WELCOME BACK, GAIUS... where's my RTR units? hehe

No, Im on dictator level and after sucessfully keeping the Germanics in check the Goths broke my defenses and swarmed in with around 150-200? units, impossible to stop them. They made it to Rome quickly.

 

[blitzkrieg80]

Dread, sorry to hear how impossibly hard those SoD are, but it's kind of cool, since it makes me think we recreated Alaric well =o) IMPORTANT QUESTION- is it overwhelming like GAME OVER, or you have lots of troops that can eventually be funnelled to counter them, since you decimated Germania/Persia? If the case is that it's game over, then maybe the spawn rate is too high for the Gothic wonder, although the Dictator level somewhat makes it offset... PS- don't piss off those Goths- they are veterans from the steppe, hehe

 

[Stazro]

well, the main reason to have and hold western europe is so you don't get invaded from there later on by the Germanics which is semi-historical...

When i played with the 275 BC-Biq i had had problems with the logistics (in civ you can't have one summer campaign in the west and next year one in the east), especially spain took much time, just because they had no roads there, so after i defeated the seleucids i decided to leave out gallia and britain (i later conquered persia instead, because nearly all my legions were in the east). This had the positive impact that i had the Gauls as a "buffer" agains the germanics in the later days (and of course, i had no need for troops at the eastern border).

 

[dreadknought]

Dread, sorry to hear how impossibly hard those SoD are, but it's kind of cool, since it makes me think we recreated Alaric well =o) IMPORTANT QUESTION- is it overwhelming like GAME OVER, or you have lots of troops that can eventually be funnelled to counter them, since you decimated Germania/Persia? If the case is that it's game over, then maybe the spawn rate is too high for the Gothic wonder, although the Dictator level somewhat makes it offset... PS- don't piss off those Goths- they are veterans from the steppe, hehe

I still have two large armies but its unclear as too if the Goths can be damaged very much due to overwhelming unit size. Where as I was able to keep Germania from building up so many the Goths are too far away to slow down.

I think being unable to access cities + ai free builds adds up to ai overwheming strengh. The Goths invaded with more units then my entire army, they were bored I guess, lol.

 

[dferrill]

I still have two large armies but its unclear as too if the Goths can be damaged very much due to overwhelming unit size. Where as I was able to keep Germania from building up so many the Goths are too far away to slow down.

I think being unable to access cities + ai free builds adds up to ai overwheming strengh. The Goths invaded with more units then my entire army, they were bored I guess, lol.

Maybe if the auto producing units in the game by all civs was slowed down some. I experienced something similar with Dacia they overwhelmed me very quickly it was so bad i decided to quit the game and start over at a lower level Consul will see if that helps.

 

[blitzkrieg80]

well the scenario is designed for Consul... anything beyond is masicism chosen exlusively for self satisfaction =o) seriously now, the game is made to be hard on Consul, the default, so if it's too easy, then limit yourself (like keeping negative improvements such as Nero's temple, or LET ME KNOW- I have plenty of hisorical "house rules" suggestions from my own experiences with RTW) because Dictator and beyond give more SoD than normal and the scenario design can't be held accountable

dferrill, I agree that Dacia seems to produce too many units during their prime-time with Decebalus, so we definitely want to watch that to fine tune it

 

[Keroro]

I think being unable to access cities + ai free builds adds up to ai overwheming strengh. The Goths invaded with more units then my entire army, they were bored I guess, lol.

Maybe if the auto producing units in the game by all civs was slowed down some. I experienced something similar with Dacia they overwhelmed me very quickly it was so bad i decided to quit the game and start over at a lower level Consul will see if that helps.

Guys, guys, this is part of the point. This is meant to be part historical simulation and part game. There is no doubt that some of the AI armies get reallly huge and dangerous towards the end of the game, but that is intentional. Look back through this thread and you'll see that it took ages for Pintilapia and co. to get the barbarians to be a serious threat to the Empire, we shouldn't stop that now, because the point is that on the high difficulties Rome must fall. If happened historically, and there's no reason why it shouldn't happen in the game. If you have followed the tech tree at 12 turns per tech and if you have kept aggressively expanding your borders in the years leading up to the Pax Romana then there is no reason why you shouldn't be able to keep the core of the Eastern Empire intact to the late game. Then when Justinian and Belisarius turn up towards the end you can reconquer the lost territories against the weakened barbarians.

One more thing, if the game is too hard on Dictator then it is probably because it was really designed to be played on Consul. There are people that have beaten RFRE on the hardest possible settings, (not me though ) so I don't think that it is too hard full stop. The increase of spawning rates for AI civs was implemented in the 275 BCE Easy version, so take a look at those if you want a slightly less daunting challenge.

I hope that didn't come accross as a rant, but I really believe that RFRE should remain one of the most challenging mods out there. Loads of effort has gone into making the barbarian hordes almost unstoppable, and I wouldn't like to see the mod lose that challenging nature.

EDIT - Oops, cross post with Blitz.

 

[blitzkrieg80]

no no no thank you Keroro, my hero- "Rome must fall" I love it! more had to be said, otherwise I just sound like a Nazi, as usual with a name like Blitzkrieg

To all, we very much appreciate the feedback, even if it is that the SoD are buggers (damn you Firaxis!) and you guys want things changed... If everyone just sang praises then there would be no improvement, although Pink would blush into epilectic shock

I'm seriously SOOOO HAPPY that the Goths invaded Rome!! That's such a cool little historical reenactment... Sorry Dread but now you're REALLY playing history

PS, Starzo, Don't get too cozy with buffer AI since they can allow other aggressive AI to move freely through their borders! Then it is worse because the units have plenty of land to run away on that you can't even touch without starting war with the other!