Rise and Rule for Civ3:Conquests

[Ginger_Ale]

The mod is great but I had to abandon it after 150 turns. I am industrious and I need 24 (!!!) labourers to build a railroad under democracy. It is absolutely crazy and not fun at ALL. To not mention the cost ridiculous of all buildings and wonders.

I was sure I will have fun with this mod but I didnt. Not because is difficult but because I can build nothing on high levels even with center cities. 40 turns for a factory?! No thanks, back to original.

When playing C3C we have a chance at deity by micromanaging tiles for ever; here the cost is SO HIGH that it doesnt stand a chance. AI has everything 10 times faster than you. It is almost impossible to plan any wonder, there are tones of wonder cascades so you end with a flop. The units cost 4 gold each and I am bankrupt for ever. Sorry, that is not for me.

Version 1.02 has incorrect worker speeds, iirc. Post #986 (correct me if I'm wrong, it's near there) has [unofficial?] v1.03 that fixes that.

 

[Salamandre]

I dont think I can change, I am using the french patch to 1.02, so may not work with 1.03 which isnt by the way at 986


So far, with 200 laburers I can railroad 5 tiles every turn, I have some 35 cities, I need a very extended version then 140 turns to railroad all my empire and then the conquered land, i even cant dream of. It just isnt playable as it is.


If I just change in editor railroad to 6 turns or so, should work faster? The base is 24, and as industrious should be at 12, but still at 24

 

[Crewd]

I dont think I can change, I am using the french patch to 1.02, so may not work with 1.03 which isnt by the way at 986

Dunno what the patch actually does, but if it doesn't touch the .biq then you can grab it, since 1.03beta only deliveres that + some text files (iirc).

So far, with 200 laburers I can railroad 5 tiles every turn, I have some 35 cities, I need a very extended version then 140 turns to railroad all my empire and then the conquered land, i even cant dream of. It just isnt playable as it is.

You're right, it isn't. But you can also change the worker speeds manually, 50 for slave, 100 for Workers/Serfs, 125 for Peasant, 150 for Labourer and 175 for Engineer. Some units also have worker abilities, but I guess they're at 100 and 0 equals that.

If I just change in editor railroad to 6 turns or so, should work faster? The base is 24, and as industrious should be at 12, but still at 24

Not recommended, better to adjust the worker speeds themselfs.

 

[Doc Tsiolkovski]

The mod is great but I had to abandon it after 150 turns. I am industrious and I need 24 (!!!) labourers to build a railroad under democracy. It is absolutely crazy and not fun at ALL. To not mention the cost ridiculous of all buildings and wonders.

I was sure I will have fun with this mod but I didnt. Not because is difficult but because I can build nothing on high levels even with center cities. 40 turns for a factory?! No thanks, back to original.

When playing C3C we have a chance at deity by micromanaging tiles for ever; here the cost is SO HIGH that it doesnt stand a chance. AI has everything 10 times faster than you. It is almost impossible to plan any wonder, there are tones of wonder cascades so you end with a flop. The units cost 4 gold each and I am bankrupt for ever. Sorry, that is not for me.

Ok, you're obviously mixing two completely different issues here.

1) The buggy Worker speed in 1.02
That isn't such a huge deal - it "only" means that all Worker type units work at the same speed (100%) instead of getting faster. So, it isn't exactly worth it to upgrade them, except for the faster movement. Still, an annoying bug.
However, neither Slaves nor the IND speed bonus nor the Gov worker speed boni are affected here!

2) Oodles of wrong choices (no offense!)
Slaves are a lot slower than natives. Especially for a IND Civ.
Democracy is definitely the wrong Gov - Demo is an Ancient Gov form. Unit support drops for Metros. Worker speed is only 100%; ConMon/FedRep offer 150%.
Your core cities need like what for a Factory? 40 turns??? Uh, maybe your core cities should have Forges and Mills and Guild Halls and Slave Markets? A core city in the IA should make 60spt+. Before a Factory. A capital with 200spt isn't rare...
You're definitely developing your cities inadequate.

You're bankrupt because of the unit support? Again, is your unit support substantially higher than your city maintenance costs? If that's the case, you're Gov choice is the wrong one. Go AbsMon. Or Commie/ Fascism.
If not, the problem shouldn't be what you pay - the problem usually is that your income is inadequate .

Wonder cascades? You should be able to build almost any wonder you want on Deity in the IA. Remember, a wonder city should make around 200spt. And, many wonders require a prerequisite, so those annoying cascades are limited. For example, ToE or Newton's require a University.

I'd say it is general consensus that RAR on Deity is easier that unmodded - if you survive until mid-Renaissance.
By that time, you should have enough production boosters and corruption reducers to outproduce a Deity AI.

Have a look at the SG forum, to see how 'easy' it gets in the late game.

Seriously, the Worker speed issue in 1.02 is annoying. But everything else you describe is essentially your fault - if that is turning you away, you should really try again.

 

[barka]

The mod is great but I had to abandon it after 150 turns. I am industrious and I need 24 (!!!) labourers to build a railroad under democracy. It is absolutely crazy and not fun at ALL. To not mention the cost ridiculous of all buildings and wonders.

I was sure I will have fun with this mod but I didnt. Not because is difficult but because I can build nothing on high levels even with center cities. 40 turns for a factory?! No thanks, back to original.

When playing C3C we have a chance at deity by micromanaging tiles for ever; here the cost is SO HIGH that it doesnt stand a chance. AI has everything 10 times faster than you. It is almost impossible to plan any wonder, there are tones of wonder cascades so you end with a flop. The units cost 4 gold each and I am bankrupt for ever. Sorry, that is not for me.

ive got two words for you: accelerated production

 

[barka]

doc?

i am interested in getting breakdown info on the higher difficulty levels. can you point me to anything?

thanks, barka

 

[barka]

Pfeffersack, Doc?

I think you guys really should "tame" and bury the cap system for 1.4! A player should be able to emphasize trade, bypass science research and simply purchase techs at points in the game when that is the best strategy...

no?

 

[Pfeffersack]

doc?

i am interested in getting breakdown info on the higher difficulty levels. can you point me to anything?

thanks, barka

I assume you mean an info what the AI gets as boni on the higher levels? Best way to find out is the editor.Load the RaR .biq and select the difficulty rule page.The values aren't to far away from those of the unmodded game, if we have changed here anything at all (not sure ATM).

Pfeffersack, Doc?

I think you guys really should "tame" and bury the cap system for 1.4! A player should be able to emphasize trade, bypass science research and simply purchase techs at points in the game when that is the best strategy...

no?

The cap system is one of the heart contents of RaR It is used to diversify the governments and balance them again each others (otherwise 12 different governments wouldn't be possible; the just would be to similar).On the first glance the restriction might reduce your strategic options, but in fact it creates new ones.And you get full control over the sliders with some late game governments...
I see your points with buying tech, but believe me in RaR it is much more effective to research techs yourself, even on the higher levels and especially if you are scientific.There are far more techs than in the unmodded game and a lot of branches the AI neglects, which creates trading opportunities.Since you can push your scientific output with various buildings you can get a decent research speed.The 50% slider restriction of chiefdom is hard, but intended...your are encouraged to leave it as soon as possible.Monarchy's 60% still causes problems sometimes, but as soon as you reach 70% or more you seldom get in troubles...especially if you make use of the lux slider, which is recommended in RaR (because of the +50% luxury buildings).10% or 20% luxury tax is common, unless you are drowning in luxury ressources (a valuable startegy is to avoid buying luxuries and to use the lux slider instead - the saved cash from the avoided trades is available for buying techs if you want.If you go for luxuries, you aren't able to compensate the expenses by tax because you hit the slider cap...) and with a 70% cap, you are forced to spend 10% or 20% for reserach.Not a big deal IMO and not a bad thing, if you research the right techs.

 

[barka]

as usual, killer arguments.

 

[Zorn]

I noticed something weird. When I play with the mod, the "irrigation desert" graphic is used for all terrains. When I checked it with the unmoded game, everything is normal.
Any clue why this is so?
Btw, the longer I play the mod the more I like it. The mesoamerican flavor units are outstanding, especially jaguars and eagles.

 

[Jreijiri]

hey guyz ive downloaded this mod, and i was checking the civiclopedia and noticed that i cant build the army 4 bcz it need an advance and i cant get to know how to get it as its not in the tech tree and there is a "designer note" that i have to build a city imp orsomthing like that, didnt understand quite well wat it ment. So could anyone help me with this?

 

[barka]

but on the other hand: I am not arguing against the gov caps, but rather just the enforced sci research.

cant one be done without the other? sure its just for the more basic gov styles, but these are where flexibility is more useful.

did i miss something, again?

 

[Pfeffersack]

hey guyz ive downloaded this mod, and i was checking the civiclopedia and noticed that i cant build the army 4 bcz it need an advance and i cant get to know how to get it as its not in the tech tree and there is a "designer note" that i have to build a city imp orsomthing like that, didnt understand quite well wat it ment. So could anyone help me with this?

The armies II-IV are disabled for balance reasons and because they cause several bugs.The note with the improvement is likely outdated.If you descrice where you have found the note, I will have a look at it and take it on the civilopedia list.

but on the other hand: I am not arguing against the gov caps, but rather just the enforced sci research.

cant one be done without the other? sure its just for the more basic gov styles, but these are where flexibility is more useful.

did i miss something, again?

The enforced research is a common byproduct of the rate cap (in other words, the rate cap limits extrem spending in a sector to a certain percentage and enforces to distribute the remaining %s on the other sectors).The only way to make it gone is removing the cap.With the cap, you can only replace it by forced luxury spendings.

 

[barka]

well, thanks for the answer. guess thats the long and short of it.

 

[barka]

since Pfeffersack is a bit busy i thought I would drop this on Doc or whoever was around:

I am now in 1.03. well enough.

i have a slightly older system and it worked fine on normal sized maps at all levels.

i have just run about 50 turns on a large map at sid difficulty level. i am getting interval times of up to 1 minute and 10 seconds, averaging around 1 minute. its painful.

i turned off barbarians as i thought that might help but it wasnt sufficient. i am considering trying again with victory points off as well.

before i did that I wanted to ask you if you had any suggests that I could apply with the editor? i had a look at a Rhye's .biq rules and scenrio properties but am unable to be sure which would help.

thanks again!

barka confused03.gif

 

[Isak]

The primary source of system slowness in Civ3 seems to be the number of units - the more units in the game, the slower it gets. The best way to contain the number of units is probably to play with fewer opponents or .. my favorite ... go bash some enemies.


Btw, If you think 1 minute is bad, I sure hope you weren't around for the first Civ3, or PtW - it was not uncommon for some players to have 'inbetween turn periods' of 5-10 minutes.

I'm not sure what Rhye has done to his map, but I doubt that the effects would carry over. RAR & DYP generally sees more units than other mods, so it will be a bit slower regardless.
Some of us are old people - we like it like that..

 

[Landmonitor]

I'm in the middle industrial on a huge map with 14 civs left and there's probably around 1-1.5 minute delay while the computer does its turns. This isn't really a problem though, since with 4 seperate wars and a national railway to build across my home continent, my turns aren't exactly short either. Also, you might remember that my ships (apart from carracks) became mute for fighting. The sound just appeared again once I developed screw propellor. Really weird, and this was consistent between two computers loading the same saves.

I gotta say though, I really miss those craters! Why did you take them out? I also really like the Ironclad's inability to go into deep waters. Maybe the ironclad should cause craters while wooden ships don't, just to emphasize the firepower it has (note: I don't know anything about Ironclads historically other than that two of them fought without great consequence during the American civil war, so I may be sounding stupid here!). I'm glad you're putting craters back in for version 1.04.

 

[Salamandre]

I have some issues to submit:

My industrious workers have the same speed as normal ones, and they not improve over upgrading to laborers etc. I know there is a bug and that 1.03 clear it but here comes my problem: I have french version and using the 1.02 french patch. When I installed 1.03 the game crashed "worker.ini not found"
Is there a way that I do manually what 1.03 brings on?


The other issue is that the game crashes always when I switch my specialists. do I miss some files, is there a bug or what?

On the other side the mod is absolutely fantastic, but I feel that it works better on custom maps and at highers difficulties. If you play at emperor or more, then you can get up to 4 techs every 4 turn. Can become really boring if the AI is slower than you.

I like that is almost impossible to get both Clausewitz and Theory of Evolution. With the cascade the AI got one of them every game I played. I had to choose which one, and took Clausewitz, as I had Enciclopedia so didnt worry about AI advancing. Also, on sid level we got in modern era, without researching drama/literature, which is a bit strange.

 

[Pfeffersack]

@ craters

They will be back for later artillery in 1.04. For late ships, they are on the list...to be consequent and realistic we will have to add them for bomber planes, too.Since figuring out exactly for which units takes time, it have to wait until the next patch.If you die for them, add them yourself for the moment - should be done in less than a minute


@ effect of patch 1.03

Simply load the 1.02 biq, go to the units rules section and mod the worker strength of all the following units to these values:

Hardy Clan 25
Hardy Asian Clan 25
Cultivator 100
Hardy Cultivator 100
Hardy Pioneer 50
Hardy Asian Pioneer 50
Hardy Colonist 75

Worker 100
Asian Worker 100
Serf 100
Asian Serf 100
Peasant 125
Laborer 150
Engineer 175

Legionary 50
Elephant Rider 100
War Elephant 100

Slave 50

 

[barka]

Ill work on this Isak and Pfeffersack and if I make headway on load times and intervals ill let you know. trial and error me thinks.

speaking of age, none of us is getting any younger meditating 9 hours a day on civ! thanks god i dont have a 3d card! civ 4 would simply put me into retirement!