Landmonitor
Prince
I guess I could add them myself, never thought of that, I've never modded CIV in any way at all before, but I'll fire up the editor and do that. Would that affect a game in progress?
Rise and Rule for Civ3:Conquests
- Thread starter Isak
- Start date
Pfeffersack said:
I have made the necessary corrections to my 1.02 version as you suggested and it works just fine now.
Just a question, however: I have Matt_G's excellent RaR game rules and data file and according to the unit list there, Cultivator and War Elephant do not have worker actions. Not remembering right now the exact real game abilities of these units, should I go ahead and enable worker actions for cultivator and add 'build road' and 'clear jungle' ability to War Elephant?
At first thought, enabling worker actions for Cultivator doesn't make sense while other 'non-hardy' units have no such capability.
About the War Elephant, there is a certain logic to making the above quoted changes, as the other elephant unit in the game (Elephant Rider) also has them. But on the other hand, the question is, would this be an overpowering of the War Elephant if you consider that it's already a stronger (knight grade) unit? What do you think?
Pfeffersack
Deity
Landmonitor said:
No, any changes in the editor only affect new started games.We modders sometimes wish we could change something for games in progress (would save a lot of time if it comes to testing late game issues), but on the other hand this rule gurantees more stability for the game.
Ancyrean said:
The differences are a result of the fact I have used the upcoming 1.04 biq. as reference
For the War Elephant enable build road, clear forest and clear jungle; for the Cultivator add all abilities except build colony.Jreijiri said:
That "tech" is so overloaded, because it is only in the game to disable some functions we couldn't get to work properly.You can't research it - thats the intention and thats why we call it "unavailabe"
We haven't took those things completly out of the .biq, because there was long a slight chance for another Conquests patch and sometimes we modders learn how to cope with some problems (for example, plantations and shipments - they might come back in future versions, since there is a work-around for the problem, but we need to test it and 1.04 was delayed long enough).OwieB2003
Warlord
Found something odd while I was playing as Spain, using the 1.03 basic biq. I built a few trebuchets, and on the main game view, they look like catapults. Pedia icon looks like a trebuchet, military advisor screen icon for them looks like a trebuchet, the icon for them on the right-click-on-city menu looks like a trebuchet, the icon for them in the units tab in Civ3ConquestsEdit looks like a trebuchet. But, the main game makes them look like catapults. Any ideas on how to fix this?
Pfeffersack
Deity
Thats one of the outdated graphics.Firaxis orginal trebuchet graphic will be back in 1.04.
Salamandre
King
Well, I dunno if you guys realized what kind of exploit could be done with your sacrificial "altairs" but I can say that modern warfare is a piece of cake, with so many foreign workers around. I take a town, sacrifice a lurker around, get instant 20 culture and can attack next city within 2 squares radius, repeat same thing; well, on deity took 35 towns from the siamese same turn with this trick. It remembers me Moonsinger settler exploit. It kills the game, but is welcome in modern era, when we are tired, 66 hours game till now and far from the end.
With this exploit, the fact that you gave 2 mvm to MKIV is completelly useless and not restricting at all. They come when the only defense AI can have is trenchmens, def 8 or so.
I think you forgot that culture is not only need for victory but for borders quick expansion.
With this exploit, the fact that you gave 2 mvm to MKIV is completelly useless and not restricting at all. They come when the only defense AI can have is trenchmens, def 8 or so.
I think you forgot that culture is not only need for victory but for borders quick expansion.
Pfeffersack
Deity
Hmm, a good point on sacrificing (but whats the problem with the Sacrificial Altar, it gets obsolete with Monasticism?).The problem is that the amount of culture you get for units is hardcoded, so especially foreign workers with 20 cp hit.I see no solutions except disabling it for workers (then the problem would be smaller, because you need tons of slaves to do it) or increasing the amount of culture needed for border expansion.If we balance the improvements/wonders with higher culture output, it might work.I will put it on the list.
However, the other side of the problem are the tanks which cut through the weak defenders like nothing...one of the main reasons why the AI gets less and less competitive in the last two ages.
However, the other side of the problem are the tanks which cut through the weak defenders like nothing...one of the main reasons why the AI gets less and less competitive in the last two ages.
Salamandre
King
Pfeffersack said:
The sacrifice should be disabled IMHO. Even if you increase the amount of culture needed for border expansion some will find another trick like let the AI capture your workers 2 tiles away from border so you can take them back but as SLAVES. So if you put border expansion at 40 or more instead of 10 I"ll just have to get more slaves and this is not a problem.
Another problem I experienced is with the usual popheads.pcx (smileys). It makes RAR crashes because it lacks the new specialists heads. Anyone has a smiley popheads which works with RAR? The original can handle it but I miss those smileys, helps a lot when scrolling with F1 to see the hapiness.
The power of the artillery also were overpowered in C3C, but here is insane. I remember in C3C I needed at least 3 artillery to redline 1 infantery and sometimes more because it failed. Here EVERY artillery takes out 4 HP, no matter how high is the defence. And rarely fails. Well, I like it but it takes out the challenge in late game.
Did you change something about AI delay contacting the human when at war? Because now its really LONG. While in C3C it took about 5 turns now I have to wait 10-15 which doesnt fit always with my strategy. Makes the wars more challenging, just wanted to know.
Doc Tsiolkovski
Deity
Sacrifices will stay .
Point is, I'm all for removing features the AI doesn't use. But this is one of the strategies the AI handles properly - if they capture a Worker with a city, you can be almost sure he'll get sacrificed.
Note you can never sacrifice your own people; so, if you capture back your workers it doesn't help.
Artillery:
I agree, it seems overpowered at first sight. However, there are oodles of "City Walls". And while the defence bonus isn't cummulative, the anti-bombard effect is. In my experience you need more artillery (and, don't forget you cannot simply capture it) to hurt an AI core city, if that AI is technologically on par. Plus, Ari requires Oil.
War length:
Nothing changed here deliberately. It's just that the AI considers itself to be stronger, I'd guess.
A general remark on RAR and human-AI balance:
In any successful game, there comes a point when the human gets the upperhand. The huge difference between RAR and unmodded is:
In unmodded, from that moment you start rolling downhill slowly.
In RAR, you can shove them off a clip.
(to loosely quote T_McC)
That's why I'm not concerned about Eurocopter Armies being possibly overpowered - if you made it there, you have long won anyway.
Technically, the human has won any Civ game where he's twice as big as the strongest AI. Or has a significant tech lead. I never liked that tedious work to actually reach a victory in unmodded. In RAR, you can breeze through the AI - but, the AI can do this as well if it gets the upper hand. If one AI really runs away, it can actually reach domination within a few turns, for the very same reasons. I've lost lots of OCC games that way (not because I was eliminated, but because there was no way to stop the leading AI.)
I'm not saying this is 'better'. But the entire unit balance in RAR is shaped that way. You won't win with the usual stacks of Inf/Cav/Ari if the RAR AI Civ is already modern.
.Point is, I'm all for removing features the AI doesn't use. But this is one of the strategies the AI handles properly - if they capture a Worker with a city, you can be almost sure he'll get sacrificed.
Note you can never sacrifice your own people; so, if you capture back your workers it doesn't help.
Artillery:
I agree, it seems overpowered at first sight. However, there are oodles of "City Walls". And while the defence bonus isn't cummulative, the anti-bombard effect is. In my experience you need more artillery (and, don't forget you cannot simply capture it) to hurt an AI core city, if that AI is technologically on par. Plus, Ari requires Oil.
War length:
Nothing changed here deliberately. It's just that the AI considers itself to be stronger, I'd guess.
A general remark on RAR and human-AI balance:
In any successful game, there comes a point when the human gets the upperhand. The huge difference between RAR and unmodded is:
In unmodded, from that moment you start rolling downhill slowly.
In RAR, you can shove them off a clip.
(to loosely quote T_McC)
That's why I'm not concerned about Eurocopter Armies being possibly overpowered - if you made it there, you have long won anyway.
Technically, the human has won any Civ game where he's twice as big as the strongest AI. Or has a significant tech lead. I never liked that tedious work to actually reach a victory in unmodded. In RAR, you can breeze through the AI - but, the AI can do this as well if it gets the upper hand. If one AI really runs away, it can actually reach domination within a few turns, for the very same reasons. I've lost lots of OCC games that way (not because I was eliminated, but because there was no way to stop the leading AI.)
I'm not saying this is 'better'. But the entire unit balance in RAR is shaped that way. You won't win with the usual stacks of Inf/Cav/Ari if the RAR AI Civ is already modern.
the gift that keeps on giving:
on RAR at deity level, found myself an age behind all the AI's (lets say at least 100 turns). Yet none of them researched humanism. I grabbed it and built the encyclopedie b4 any of them could. How if I was so far behind could I outrun them to this you ask? Well as soon as I finished the tech research I used 7 turns of military academy building and converted these shields to enyclopedie. Within 2 turns the AI had researched and was building this wonder but I beat them to it!
Why then do I complain? Encylopedie did not become obsolete with psychology and is the "gift that keeps on giving"! On deity level I shouldn't complain because the handicap to human players is so ridiculous anyhow and this finally brings about a parity
.
Doc, Isak, Pfeffersack, was this intentional???
barka
on RAR at deity level, found myself an age behind all the AI's (lets say at least 100 turns). Yet none of them researched humanism. I grabbed it and built the encyclopedie b4 any of them could. How if I was so far behind could I outrun them to this you ask? Well as soon as I finished the tech research I used 7 turns of military academy building and converted these shields to enyclopedie. Within 2 turns the AI had researched and was building this wonder but I beat them to it!
Why then do I complain? Encylopedie did not become obsolete with psychology and is the "gift that keeps on giving"! On deity level I shouldn't complain because the handicap to human players is so ridiculous anyhow and this finally brings about a parity
. Doc, Isak, Pfeffersack, was this intentional???
barka
Pfeffersack
Deity
Yes, prebuilds and a good shield production can work wonders if it comes to wonders
However, I'm quite adviceless about the non-expiring Encyclopedie in your game...what is the version of the .biq you have used for this game? I have checked the 1.02 and 1.03 .biqs and in all of them the Enc. expires with Psychologie.
When did you get Psychologie? With the first load of techs you got through the Enc. or later? If you have gotten it immediately, you might have get a couple of extra techs beyond Psychologie, because the Enc. expires not in the moment you get Psychologie, but at the beginning of the next turn.
However, I'm quite adviceless about the non-expiring Encyclopedie in your game...what is the version of the .biq you have used for this game? I have checked the 1.02 and 1.03 .biqs and in all of them the Enc. expires with Psychologie.
When did you get Psychologie? With the first load of techs you got through the Enc. or later? If you have gotten it immediately, you might have get a couple of extra techs beyond Psychologie, because the Enc. expires not in the moment you get Psychologie, but at the beginning of the next turn.
Salamandre
King
Can anyone provide a working popheads.pcx with RAR? The smileys one crash when I switch specialists, I had to return to original one and it sucks for riots, slaves markets and such. Please 
I'm thinking if the AI has a resource, but no tech to take advantage of that resource, they'll let it go cheap. I was getting uranium for something like 2gpt in my last RnR game....
Landmonitor
Prince
Did you guys notice that the Admiral of the Fleet unit can spawn prize ships by bombarding land units to death?
Pfeffersack
Deity
Landmonitor said:
Yes, noticed that before; we changed it for 1.04 (AoF has now lethal sea bombardment instead of lethal land bombardment).
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