Rising Tide - First Impressions

[Ryoga]

Yeah, safe, easy... and boring as hell.

Shouldn't be too hard to, instead of testing if the building is "unlocked" like it currently does, test if the city is a valid city to build that kind of building and have some alternative buildings that doesn't have a requirement to fallback to.

Really? I think it's more fun when you know you'll have to settle another city in more favorable conditions in order to complete a quest rather than having the game picking the most fitting building for you.

 

[aguliondew]

With all of the buff you get from diplomacy and artifact, I am getting a victories ~35turns earlier then when I was getting before the expac on Soyuz. In my first game I had a full might virtues I still got a earlier victory. Never felt that the Ai had a chance even in my Apollo game.

 

[Alkaid]

It's fun having a reason to run around and explore the map, but artifacts and marvels don't have to be so stupidly OP to encourage that. The bonuses could be toned down a fair bit and they'd still be rewarding. Sub-t200 win times are going to be the norm with all the stuff they've added, and Apollo is back to feeling like CiV's emperor difficulty.

They certainly could, but they're not truly outrageous enough to really bother me. It seems OP is the theme with RT though, which has contributed greatly to even the faster win times. That plus agreements and most affinity's new insane bonuses have added so many ways to get yields, science, health, etc. I would usually win standard apollo games around a pretty consistent range of 290 turns before. I would try to play pretty safe rather than attempt to rush and don't go for the 100% time-optimal path besides gunning for cognition before turn 100. Yet even I shaved off nearly 100 turns in my very first games of RT even with messing around and trying new stuff.

They knew the new stuff would make make things more faster, but their attempt to move victories to 15 as the only real compensation for that really just isn't enough. Even pushing victories to 18 might not make games last as long or at least much longer they did before RT. I hate to say tone down most of the bonuses all over the place, since they're very fun to have, but for the sake of game length they may have to.

We already cried for longer games before but now they're even shorter instead. The fact there's more to do now just makes me want the games to be longer even more than before, so it's doubly heartbreaking.

 

[Ryika]

Really? I think it's more fun when you know you'll have to settle another city in more favorable conditions in order to complete a quest rather than having the game picking the most fitting building for you.

In theory I could agree with that and I'm not sure why I used the word "boring", because it doesn't really fit what I meant to say - but what would it really look like? You get the quest and then you scroll all over your land to find out if you meet the prerequisites somewhere. Don't have the Resource? Well, highly unlikely that the Quest is actually worth the effort of settling another City if it's later in the game. The "proper" reaction would then be to abandon the quest.

Maybe a mixed version would work - get a quest to either construct building X somewhere in your empire OR construct building Y that specifically gets unlocked for the quest in City Z, but it costs like 3x as much as the other building. The player would be encouraged to find his own solution while still having a more expensive backup if there is no feasible way of solving the situation, basically "capping" the maximum investment costs so a quest should never have to be abandoned.

...but of course that would be a rather complicated solution to a comparably tiny problem.

 

[Manannan]

They knew the new stuff would make make things more faster, but their attempt to move victories to 15 as the only real compensation for that really just isn't enough. Even pushing victories to 18 might not make games last as long or at least much longer they did before RT. I hate to say tone down most of the bonuses all over the place, since they're very fun to have, but for the sake of game length they may have to.

We already cried for longer games before but now they're even shorter instead. The fact there's more to do now just makes me want the games to be longer even more than before, so it's doubly heartbreaking.

It isn't just a matter of game length though; it's a matter of it feeling like the AI never has a chance. All these bonuses are making the game way too facerolly, and quite frankly it doesn't need to be like that. Again, they could tone a lot down without making it feel unrewarding which I think would go a long way to making this playable. Don't need the kind of nerfs we saw with affinity units from launch (RIP battlesuits btw, I still see no reason to build them ) but they need to do something.

Guess they shoulda done some alpha testing before starting the beta.

 

[Arkangelus]

So far, I basically love the design elements... but the actual balancing is just off the scale broken. Everything that's been added adds a lot of value to it, but it really, really needs a full on polishing and balance pass. In the long term I suppose it'll be a fantastic game, since Firaxis haven't let us down yet on supporting their games, but the rush to get the game out really shows.

 

[ptoss1]

Balancing is broken.

So many bugs it feels like alpha.

Does Firaxis even play their own games?

 

[poom3619]

Balancing is broken.

So many bugs it feels like alpha.

Does Firaxis even play their own games?

Depend on who will answer you, You will get answer somewhere along to line of "Yeah, they don't even playtest their game" and "The dev don't have to good at their game"

If you ask me, I would say they don't have to, as their business model decide that it is better to crowdsource their alpha/beta testing and get 20-30 USD from each tester

Review score so far :
User Metacritic : User written review 10-10-8, User score 6.3 from 23 rating
Steam : 92% positive (Wow) 3 of most upvoted commenter would want a middle button of "yes" and "no" through. 4 out of top 6 upvoted thumb-up mention about Firaxis "business model" IMO.

 

[omniclast]

Right, so I just got a wonder unlocked by artifacts that gives "technologies cost 30% less science." What. The. Eff.

 

[Acken]

I've finished my first game (apollo) on T195 without even trying.

My verdict/opinion:
Rising Tide is a bit like the base game. Some cool ideas that weren't polished before release and then thrown in hoping to make a good game.
Sadly it doesn't work like that. The result is a fun game exploring the new mechanics and then a sentiment of disappointment because of no interest in trying a new game. It's too easy, too unbalanced, too buggy for me to care.
I had fun with the water cities. The game is pretty to look at. But then the last 100 turns are the same unchallenging grind of affinity points. The warscore system is broken. Trade routes are back with a vengeance. You win even faster than before, I can easily predict people caring will get wins in the 160.
And then the expansion still has to deal with the problems of the base game that were never addressed ! Wonders suck, specialists suck, the virtue tree was not changed, health is still irrelevant etc.

 

[Alkaid]

It isn't just a matter of game length though; it's a matter of it feeling like the AI never has a chance. All these bonuses are making the game way too facerolly, and quite frankly it doesn't need to be like that. Again, they could tone a lot down without making it feel unrewarding which I think would go a long way to making this playable. Don't need the kind of nerfs we saw with affinity units from launch (RIP battlesuits btw, I still see no reason to build them ) but they need to do something

That's why I'm nervous to see them "correct" the imbalances. It might just make things underwhelming or useless like what early affinity units had happen. It's like they swing between making things far too strong or far too weak. And saying it that way sounds like more whining at the devs but it's true. They go between extremes like Polystralia's ability vs. Brasilia's. The best balance change example I can think of right now might surprisingly be academies, since they're still "good" but I don't feel like I'm totally missing out if I don't rush them anymore.

Right, so I just got a wonder unlocked by artifacts that gives "technologies cost 30% less science." What. The. Eff.

Does the AI get to do artifacts? My instincts tell me no, but it'd be hilarious for the AI to get that one.

 

[Natura]

Right, so I just got a wonder unlocked by artifacts that gives "technologies cost 30% less science." What. The. Eff.

Well people were saying Wonders weren't strong enough....

Reckon I might wait until the Christmas sales from what I'm reading here.

 

[Manannan]

Al-Falah just got very mad at me because of my aggressive expansion that they have deemed intolerable. I have only one city.

Nice diplomacy system Firaxis.

 

[rastak]

Depend on who will answer you, You will get answer somewhere along to line of "Yeah, they don't even playtest their game" and "The dev don't have to good at their game"

If you ask me, I would say they don't have to, as their business model decide that it is better to crowdsource their alpha/beta testing and get 20-30 USD from each tester

Review score so far :
User Metacritic : User written review 10-10-8, User score 6.3 from 23 rating
Steam : 92% positive (Wow) 3 of most upvoted commenter would want a middle button of "yes" and "no" through. 4 out of top 6 upvoted thumb-up mention about Firaxis "business model" IMO.

The business model is mainly developed by 2k games, I wish people would get that straight. It's not the most difficult concept.

Be interesting to see if the general public who buys games, doesn't write reviews and just plays the game are as dis-satisfied as one would assume given the level of tantrums being thrown on forums like this dedicated to hard core players who view games as a mathematical equations.

 

[Westwall]

No equations necessary.

I'm not a "hardcore" player, but I have been playing Civ games long enough to know what I like and don't like.

BERT's diplomacy system feels like one of the most limited I've ever experienced in terms of options and ways to interact with other factions.

 

[Lucius_]

So I've finally gotten to put some time in to this game.

I'm on Soyuz difficulty, playing as Chungsu. The water gameplay makes the world feel huge and far more alive. Right now I have 5 cities on standard size, and I could probably easily hit 10 cities before being close to a neighbor. I may have to up the sponsors in future games. I'm playing on Atlantean map, so with so much water, very little mountains and canyons, that may be part of the reason.

The other thing about playing on a water map, I'm harmony/purity, 4/3, and realized, there is pretty much no point in going a hybrid affinity on a water map. There's the extra affinity bonuses, but I don't think that's worth any side tracking to go hybrid. At this point, I will just focus on harmony victory and try a hybrid game another time on a land map. That said, getting 3 off affinity really didn't take significant side tracking to reach.

Diplomacy I have pretty much used just to get bonuses. I've only bought one or two agreements. At least this particular game, I'm not seeing many options that are worth buying into. Spending my capital on my own traits so far have seemed far better, but this could be luck of the draw with AI's not buying traits that I need. I do not have ARC or Polystralia in this game, so their agreements aren't available to me, which is unfortunate because I could use both of those as allies.

It's really fun to play, but in a way I don't want to continue. There is so much that needs nerfed, and I'm afraid post-balancing it will feel watered down. I mean, I've got workers building improvements in 2 turns. If I wanted to go to war, I could field a tier 2 navy from scratch in about 10 turns. The artifact rewards, I love them, but they are so ungodly OP. Combine that with OP diplo agreements and traits, and there we are. I hope they can find a way to balance the game without taking away any of the fun.

 

[Galgus]

Gotten some turns in on the early game, and it really feels like there are too many Kraken in the seas early game.

It would be nice if they were forced to only roam the oceans, at least at lower aggressive level.

It would also be nice if there were some water uniques for affinities.

 

[ptoss1]

Gotten some turns in on the early game, and it really feels like there are too many Kraken in the seas early game.

It would be nice if they were forced to only roam the oceans, at least at lower aggressive level.

It would also be nice if there were some water uniques for affinities.

If you finish the alien skeleton quest you can use military units to "leash" the krakens, essentially creating an unstoppable gamebreaking armada of ocean going tanks. I have three krakens so far.

 

[Halbbruder]

Well, I for one, do not have the expansion but I spent time analyzing the first impressions. Initially, it seemed like it was not worth it and then at around page 5, quite a few people had positive impressions, and then it mellowed slightly as the pages progressed.

So, with all these impressions, is it worth getting? If I do get it, I currently see myself doing at least 10-12 games (I probably will skip Brazilia) on soyuz. If soyuz is too easy, then shifting to Apollo. Then if SP is too easy, then shifting to MP, where I presume I will have the most fun, providing it is still stable and not so buggy. I would imagine different players trying different builds and affinities + hybrids, but I still predict players aiming for harmony and going for an easy transcendence victory, just as quill had achieved.

I've noticed a few things lacking in impressions:
- does AI know how to win in final stages? And I mean the purity and supremacy victories?
- If AI is going hybrid, what do they do to win?
- Is it easy to have a sea city floating around capturing a huge line of territory?
- MP experiences (probably not for some time, understandably, but still)?
- Devs reported minor changes to virtues, namely synergy bonuses, what are those changes (unless they're mistaken or I misheard)?

 

[Willburn]

I really like the game is faster now so a meaningfull mp session can be played in one evening. So in that regard I am actually loving the power curve changes. But I can understand from a sp persoective it feels ai is even worse and for some sp feels too fast. But for me this is a great expansion. As a long time 4x fan it is great to see firaxis back on track. We need all the good 4x games we can get