River capital or Coast capital?

[Danei]

Quick question: my starting settler can place his city on the river or on the cost. Not both, and either way it'll be on Turn 1. Either way I'll have lots of coast tiles and either way I'll have lots of river tiles. I won't be getting more or fewer luxuries either way, etc.

So here's my question: Disregarding tile yields specific to my situation, and assuming I don't yet know the map type (it's random), and assuming I'm going for a cultural victory; is having my capital on the coast or on the river better? So just based on available buildings/wonders (e.g. sydney O-house), which should I choose?

And why?

 

[Kwami]

If the option is to settle on the coast or to settle one off the coast, then settle on the coast. You'll miss out on the Garden, but at least you won't be staring at a bunch of unusable ocean tiles.

 

[Atlas627]

If you are going tall (for culture), it is very helpful to have a bunch of tiles that auto-feed themselves (you only have to build one lighthouse)

On the other hand, if you are going tall you might as well keep your worker at your capital, because there aren't many other places to use him (and thus you can have better tiles than lighthouse-coast, and you can still make them faster than you will grow)

I would prefer the river. If the game didn't start you on that coastal tile, its probably because there aren't ANY ocean resources. You can probably find a better coastal site for your second or third city, and the SOH is not THAT important that it has to be built in the capital. By late game, your second and third cities will probably be competent enough to build it unless they are super coastal no-production fail cities.

 

[MisterSaturnine]

It all depends where the resources are. Generally, if you have to choose, go with river over coast. A little goes a long way in the early game, and the commerce from river tiles as well as the availability of the water mill give a river start a lot of power. But if that coast is filled with fish, crab, whales, or pearls, you won't want to miss out on them. The sooner you get an advantage, the more it will compound.

 

[WeaselSlapper]

Going ocean you lose the watermill and garden, but gain an extra workable river tile.

Going river you lose the ability to build a navy (if the map winds up having a decent amount of water), lighthouse, and work boats (if there are any sea resources).

For me given the choice I would take the ocean, but there's no one right way here.

 

[Civologist]

If I'm going OCC I would probably go coastal and try and build HG to replace the garden. but that might depend on your tech path for early UU/Lux and how many forests there are to chop

 

[Danei]

I ended up going with the coast, which I think was the right choice, as it ended up being an archipelago map.

 

[Bibor]

Quick question: my starting settler can place his city on the river or on the cost. Not both, and either way it'll be on Turn 1. Either way I'll have lots of coast tiles and either way I'll have lots of river tiles. I won't be getting more or fewer luxuries either way, etc.

So here's my question: Disregarding tile yields specific to my situation, and assuming I don't yet know the map type (it's random), and assuming I'm going for a cultural victory; is having my capital on the coast or on the river better? So just based on available buildings/wonders (e.g. sydney O-house), which should I choose?

And why?

One very important resource that people that go culture often forget is those damn 8-12 tiles for special improvements (religious and cultural) around your capital. If I can, I always choose a coastal start that's mostly surrounded by land.

 

[Arachnofiend]

River is much better unless you have a multitude of sea luxes. It's worth mentioning that if you manage to build the Sydney Opera House you are playing a very slow culture game.

 

[manu-fan]

Hmm. The only way I can see you being able to place a city on a river or coast turn one, is if the river spot would be one in from the coast, which is less than optimal. So, either go inland and waste a turn or two, or settle on the coast. If it has sea resources go for the coast start.

Cheers.

 

[Tachii]

If cultural, river all the way. Unless you have at least 2-3 sea resources or something. Coast tiles are vastly inferior to river tiles for obvious reasons and you NEED growth for a culture game.

Actually, there's another reason to prefer river tiles. Generally, the optimal tech path is go for Civil Society ASAP (after NC/Oracle tech) to try and snatch CI before your first Golden Age. And also to get the growth spurt ASAP. Then take some side path like Optics or Construction. In this aspect if you go for Optics first it's kind of a waste because you're wasting time to build work boats/lighthouse when you can be building Hanging Gardens, NC, Archers for defense, and so on. I suppose lighthouse can replace granary but like I said, unless you have 3 or more sea resources, it isn't particularly worth it.

PS: SOH is only possible in some very rare situations provided you kept science up along with culture. For an optimal win it's usually not necessary. Oh, and also you can just build HG in your coast city to get a free garden. But I also like river tile for the hydro plant.

 

[loserforsale]

I'd say coast generally; however, it also depends to an extent upon which Civ you are using. With Polynesia, go river so that you have the option of an unbroken line of Moai; on the other hand, if you're playing as England or Carthage, that's obviously going to skew it towards going coast.

 

[EditorRex]

When I play for domination, enemy coastal capitals are always a prime target. I don't see the AI being very effective at exploiting the ability to capture cities entirely by the sea. I haven't played multi-players, but I have to think this dynamic would quickly change there. So the coast may hold an additional liability in multi-player.

A completely different way to answer this question: You generated a random map and were left with a river or coast dilemma -- so re-roll.

 

[Hustapha Thool]

Coast is a slow build at the beginning of the game, generally i do not like it for my capital city unless it is exceptional, four resource tiles at minimum. To take advantage of those tiles going pottery/sailing then building workboats is a long process.

 

[Halcyan2]

I prefer Coastal.

On mystery maps, being coastal is really helpful if it turns out to be Continents or Archipelago.

Coastal gives you access to the Great Lighthouse and the Colossus. At higher difficulty levels, if your capital isn't coastal, you're pretty much giving up on both of these.

Coastal lets you make better use of sea resources. You can build work boats easily, and eventually get a harbor and seaport. Makes certain Religious beliefs more worthwhile as well.

In the midgame, having a coastal capital makes it much easier to hook up distant cities with harbors.

River is still nice, especially for the extra gold. Watermill is helpful early on but not crucial. Rivers for gardens aren't as necessary due to the revised Hanging Gardens. Hydroplant is so far away it's not usually a consideration. Irrigated farms is good once you hit Civil Service. But I'd still give a slight edge to coastal over river.

 

[Jelster]

Coastal. From your first post it sounds like the river tiles will be workable by your capital anyway (as it expands). Going coastal gives you an early ability to meet other Civs (ups your tech ability) and trade your lux's. You also get a chance to build a navy and take other coastal cities without the use of an army.

However, I do love using the sea in this game, and I'm trying to play more games NOT as Elizabeth....

 

[Matthew.]

If I am forced to settle on coast, I usually end up going wide[r] than I usually do. I simply don't like using half my tiles on ocean spots, so I take whatever decent tiles are on the coast and focus expansion inward with more smaller cities.

It was an archi map, so coast was the better choice.

 

[EditorRex]

Here's a different version of the same question:
If you can go River and Coastal OR one of them but not both on top of a luxury item, which do you choose?

 

[EditorRex]

Another factor worth considering -- I like making my capital an engineering city, so I try to avoid settling on hills and losing out on the windmill. You get so few early engineering buildings. This might trump the coastal/river question depending on the map. Also nice to be near desert and near mountains of course, but you can't have everything.

 

[MadDjinn]

move inland and stay by the river.

You can always build a 2nd city by the coast, but your capital needs land (not water) around it and, with a culture game, river start. Doing anything else just hurts you.