Role Play Challenge: Bismark the Master Builder

[madscientist]

Welcome to to my fourth role playing installment, Bismark the Master Builder. I was wondering if these challenges fit into strategy and tips and I think they do as they focus on a different style of play which I think can be helpful (at least I hope), and they come from someone who is not exactly a grade A player.

The past RPCs

The Mighty Kahn: Where Ghengis Kahn plays to a conquest victory using a "Raze all cities" economy.

SeaFaring Victoria: Where Victoira won a SPace Race using a strict Trade economy where no cottages were built and we did not run specialists much except for the GP farm in London.

Chivalrous Washington: Where honest George attempted to win diplomatically against 5 fine looking ladies and 3 dispicable male rivals. This ended in a draw as we got the UN built but found it impossible to get the UN votes.

So now we move onto one of my favorite type of games, Wonderspamming the capital and settling GPs there. This is a strategy that poster OBSOLETE posted in several threads and that ran into mixed responses. To me it works very well although I do modify the origional strat.

So what best civilization to best use for this but the Germans, masters of modern manufaturing!!! Bismark is one of those leaders I never cared for much in Vanilla but has turned into one of my favorites.

I love the Industious trait, 50% hammer boost to world wonder AND National wonder which we all build. Plus double speed on the Forge which comes fairly late compared with fast buildings for other traits (exception, philosophical universities). One of the best traits that abuse the metal casting oracle slingshot.


The expansive trait is great in BTS and helps from the beginning through the modern age, the +2 health bonus essentially gives you a free coal plant (as far as health). The cheap granery and harbor are big early on and the +25% worker production is nice although nerfed in BTS a bit.

The German UB and UU come late. The Panzer is THE dominant late age UU whether the enemy has tanks or not. In BTS there is no good counter as helicopters come very late with advanced flight and Panzers have an edge even against Modern armor. The UB gives an amazing head start in production over the AI, giving Germany a very powerful edge late in the game for domination/conquest wins (Blitzkrieg Baby).

So here we are on this RPC, the conditions are fairly simple.

Bismark loves to build great wonders, and he prefers to do it in peace. However, he is extremely jealous when an inferior civilization builds another world wonder and must gain access to it!!!

To win this game, Bismark MUST control every Wonder in the game before he can achieve victory. If he can build them all himself, kudos to German manufacturing, if an AI builds it he must take that city before the end of the game. Corporations do not count as I plan to settle every GP produced in the capital, and I already showed the benefits of corps in the Victoria game. Likewise shrines since Prophets will be settled, however if and AI builds a shrine Bismark must have it!!!!!!

Setting and rules

Monarch difficulty
Marathon Speed
Big and Little map
Temperate climate and medium sea level
Standard size maps with 6 random AIs
Time victory turned off
EDIT: Vassals have been turned off to avoid a vassal of Bismarks building a World Wonder

Rules

1) Bismark MUST control every wonder by the end of the game
2) Bismark does NOT have to declare war on an AI right away, he can bide his time.
3) ALL Great People MUST be setteld in the city of Berlin.
4) There is not rules about when or when not to declare war (I had enough of that in the Washington game).

That's it, very simple rules

So, here we go


Bismark the Master Builder

And the start

SO how do we proceed here?? I plan to start playing Monday night.
Germany starts with hunting and Mining.

PS: Before anyone asks, this was the first random start I got and did not regenerate the map. I will admit, it looks like an ideal startinmg map for this strat, landlocked with planty of hill but somewhat limited forrests.

 

[VoiceOfUnreason]

I would probably run my scout up the hill west of the settler, to see what is lurking in the dark over there. Should nothing interesting appear, I'd move the settler SE, settling on the riverside grassland hill. I'd try to time the worker to match with animal husbandry, then mysticism to start wondering.

Other locations I consider are the plains hill W of the settler (if the scout spies something interesting), or the plains hill on the coast (which makes fetching the lighthouse and colossus easier).

You might want to look at the game reports from Adventure 24.

 

[madscientist]

Good idea about the grasslans hill. I'll get 1 unworkable sea tile but gain the extra cow. More importantly I'll be on the river allowing us to build the levees.

I checked out the site, very nice games there although Bismark can be a little more agressive here.

Thanks.

 

[Darth Meanie]

I like the SE spot.

 

[Cabledawg]

Can you amend the rules and have an academy with the first scientist?

Can you post a starting save?

 

[madscientist]

Can you amend the rules and have an academy with the first scientist?

Can you post a starting save?

Good point, I'll build an academy in Berlin with the first GS.

The save has been added to the origional post, sorry about that.

 

[IPEX-731BA5DD06]

I like these challanges of your's mad Scientist, puts a different Light on the game and highlights some fun aspects...

I"d definately move to the Plains hill 1 SE you can't miss out on the levies for Berlin, and being industrial..it means an extra 6 hammers ontop of the levey bonus, Factor in Forges/factories with coal/oil (power) and your looking at?? 100% 12 hammers? Just from a levey Do I love rivers now or what.

As well, you pick up 2 cow's and swap a lake for a sea tile...losing 1 commerace...

 

[Scaramanga]

The Panzer is THE dominant late age UU whether the enemy has tanks or not. In BTS there is no good counter as helicopters come very late with advanced flight and Panzers have an edge even against Modern armor.

What about Anti-Tank Infantry (comes with Artillery)?

 

[madscientist]

I like these challanges of your's mad Scientist, puts a different Light on the game and highlights some fun aspects...

I"d definately move to the Plains hill 1 SE you can't miss out on the levies for Berlin, and being industrial..it means an extra 6 hammers ontop of the levey bonus, Factor in Forges/factories with coal/oil (power) and your looking at?? 100% 12 hammers? Just from a levey Do I love rivers now or what.

As well, you pick up 2 cow's and swap a lake for a sea tile...losing 1 commerace...

Thanks, I am glad these challenges are entertaining, that is what they were meant for.

I think I would still have the lake but loose the jumbos. By the time I can build war elephants though the cultural borsers would have popped.

 

[mice]

Have you disabled domination? It might be hard to get all wonders and shrines without taking more than 64% of the land. OTOH interesting. In the Crusades SG we spent a lot of time avoiding the dom limit before we could get our goal.

 

[madscientist]

What about Anti-Tank Infantry (comes with Artillery)?

I view the anti-tank unit as a desperation attempt to hold a city versus tanks. They are slower than tanks (compared with gunships which were faster than tanks), and are even money against tanks (14 at 100% against 28 for a tank) before the modifiers (anti-tanks get free ambush, +25% versus armored units). Also you can take anti-tanks units out with pinch promoted cavalry which usually have other promotion from previous combat.

I would prefer NOT to bring Panzers against anti-tanks but we're not talking the gunships of warlords here.

 

[madscientist]

Have you disabled domination? It might be hard to get all wonders and shrines without taking more than 64% of the land.

Not a problem, I can raze non-wonder cities. I'm pretty good at it

 

[IPEX-731BA5DD06]

I started playing the game from the down load initially to move settler etc, carried on through, to 580AD, and its 4 am.....opp's....

No knowledge on what's happened, it'll proberly change for you.

I'm really looking forward to your report, So I can compare my progress, I must admit I've reloaded twice...but who am I cheating, my self only..

I too enjoy marathon games, I like to play with my army.

I've been trying a Monarch wonder spam stratergy lately, Had a go with Roseavelt, got peed off when I tried to attack a 20% culture city of Vilhem, and lost all my troops..needless to say, aaarrrggghhh...got beaten to a few wonder too....Pyramids, on a SE kick....Mumble...Colossus......AND I DID METALCASTING SLING SHOT?? they must have self researched or bulbed?? Hmm

Enough of that.....No spoilers, just awaiting your game report...

 

[o-zoe]

Chivalrous Washington: Where honest George attempted to win diplomatically against 5 fine looking ladies and 3 dispicable male rivals. This ended in a draw as we got the UN built but found it impossible to get the UN votes.

Let's face it: there is no way you can keep 5 women happy and still come walk away winning the game. Sometimes keeping just 1 happy requires deity level diplomacy skills

Not being able to see the surroundings, I'd be tempted to settle on top of the piggies. They do make cute pets. Extra early food and production, access to fresh water and working both cows and the jumbos will get Berlin up and running in no time. We do want that wall. And the pyramids. And if possible, the oracle. But I'd rather have the parthenon.
City 2 or even 3 will can take care of the military once that wall is finished ^_^

 

[madscientist]

Let's face it: there is no way you can keep 5 women happy and still come walk away winning the game. Sometimes keeping just 1 happy requires deity level diplomacy skills

We did marry one and kept the other three happy (hatty really did like GW, just trapped in a war), but gotta beware of those damn Celtic woman.

Not being able to see the surroundings, I'd be tempted to settle on top of the piggies. They do make cute pets. Extra early food and production, access to fresh water and working both cows and the jumbos will get Berlin up and running in no time. We do want that wall. And the pyramids. And if possible, the oracle. But I'd rather have the parthenon.
City 2 or even 3 will can take care of the military once that wall is finished ^_^

These wonderspam capital games really rely heavily on food and production. That said I think we really need the pigs as Pork rather than pot-belly pig pets!!

So the Germans will have Snitzel, Saubraten, knockwurst, Goulash; a real carnivor diet to feed the dependable miners; no sushi or vebetables in this diet.

The Jumbos will get nabbed once out culture hits 300, pretty quick with those early wonders.

Now how to start tonight:

1) I will move the scout to the NW hill and make sure I'm not missing something like stone/marble or grains.
2) Settle on SE Hill (1 south of pigs). That gives us 3 unforrested hills (we can delay BW), 1 forrested (where scout is), maybe one in fog, and the pighill. The rest are farms/watermills/workshops.
3) Build a worker first. Got hills to mine and animals to corral (and eat!!!).
4) Tech, I agree with REASON. AH first, then mysticism. Depending on land and AIs, I may go archery before mysticism (commerce will be lacking for a while so we shoudl wait on BW). Wheel if we are lucky and get horses nearby. Also need the wheel to eventually hook up the jumbos for the happiness.
5) Getting Stonehenge/Oracle/GW will be tough, especially since I need to get at least one city up and going early. The oracle slingshot ot metal casting for early forges I think is a must, but requires alot of techs (BW/wheel/Pottery/Med/Priest).


Now let's see who our Rivals will be. Probably get people like HC, Louis, and Ramses.

 

[o-zoe]

What I don't like about the hill south of piggies is the coast tile you gain, you already have a lake as well. You could very well be right though, I'm not one for micromanagent... and there may be coast 2 east of the jumbos anyway.

I also agree with AH, Myst while building worker. Masonry while building Stonehenge and finish Great Wall before barbs become a problem. Being industrious you should be able to pull it off ^_-

But ermm.. wouldn't it be a lot easier to move that scout first, than decide on where to settle? ^_^

 

[madscientist]

But ermm.. wouldn't it be a lot easier to move that scout first, than decide on where to settle? ^_^

Yep, that's what I plan on doing! Should have mentioned it in the earlier post.

 

[obsolete]

If there is more than one continent, you may be in for a real tuff time trying to capture every city that holds a wonder, especially in non-coastal cities.

 

[madscientist]

If there is more than one continent, you may be in for a real tuff time trying to capture every city that holds a wonder, especially in non-coastal cities.

What??? No confidence in the German Blitzkrieg???

It's a big little map and I have located 4 or the 6 AIs so far. The post will follow, photobucket has been a pain today.

 

[madscientist]

Bismark The Master Builder: Part I

The master German Blacksmith looks over the land that his small band of settlers has come upon. "This place we shall build, and it shall be glorious and the envy for all others to see", he mutters under his breath, none better look like this. He twirls his giant Mustach and scans the land... Hills for mine, and fresh meat for his hard, dilligent workers. Yes this is good although the large creatures with the ivory tusks have other uses besides ffeding the bellies of his people. "Yes, this will do nicely" , he call for his scouts to move to the north west hill, finds rather uninspiring terrain then makes his first decision as the new leader "Our peaopl shall cross the river", so begins the German Empire as a small riverside community on a hill...

We I took Reason's advice, moved the scout NW, which produced nada and mover the settle to the riverside hill south of Pighill.

A near perfect wonderspamming capital! Three very powerful animal resources and ALOT of good hills (4 hammer guys) plus some forrested grasslands for farms.

Our scout was rather proficient, netting 42g, 40g, 74g, a warrior, 50g and scoped out alot of land before becoming lion food. The warrior did nicely scouting too and came back to Berlin a happy man.

We met two AIs fairly early

Not the best and not the worse. So far no industrious AIs but Chuckie is a zealot and needs some religious cattering to. Hamarabi I usualy stay at peace but I only trust those agressive AIs so far.

Techwise we started with AH, and started to build a worker. We find horses in a rather inconvenient place.

Near the coast but in a jungle. That northern jungle is good and bad. Tough land to settle but likely to keep Ais out for a while. Our delligent warrior popped from the hut is sent into the grassland to keep tabs on the horses.

Tech order: AH/Mysticism/Archery/wheel/Fishing/BW yes delaying most wonder techs to build up the empire. There is copper which is north of the jungle, egads! See how this played out

Build order: Worker/Warrior/Warrior/Warrior/Warrior/Stonehenge/archer/Settler/Archer/worker/warcher/settler. First settler went to western shore to claim fish/jumbos/rice and more beef. The other settler went to claim the horses. A long trek but I am firm believer in Snaaty's cutoff land approach (see how we do on this later) and that claims the horse and partly blocks the AI.

We explore to the south with one warrior.

Marble and sheep while keeping the wheat in that potential city BFC. Pork, Beef, and Mutton, what else does a good German worker need!!!


in 2500BC we get out first wonder

And the status of Berlin that got us this wonder that early

That is a class A wonderspamming capital. One of those cow pastuers can easily be rplaced by a 4 hammer hill to cap the population at 5.

We also struggled a bit with money and was at 40-50% science but still teching OK because we have several cities all connected because of a very decent worker force. One problem is that a barbarian city popped up just south of the German warrior guarding the horses (Bismark was not happy with this. However it did not interfere with claiming the horse city

We met two more AIs

Another Zealot and another agressive AI. Well I know what to expect with these two. I'll some good advice later on regarding what to do with the religions, buit let's continue

After BW I believe we went meditation/Pritesthood/Pottery and bam

MC slingshot at it's best. We take metal casting and start forges in Berlin and Hamberg.

We went to sailing, Masonry and agriculture (Finally!) Then iron working to desperate remove some of those jungles.

We built some chariots and went down to th barb city, note our pretty lame stack of three chariots, 2 archers, and a warrior (don't laugh)

I started off attacking with 2 archers, both got killed. Lost 2 chariots mad: ), last chariot defeated an archer and out old horse guarding warrior defeats the last barb archer (who had 0 HP) to capture the city, which we razed for 132 gold (really needed.

At this point we lost out on the GW to Justinian (Bismark is not amused and swears vengence) and start on the pyramids in Berlin, and the Colossus in Hamberg. We try a last ditch effort for the Great lighthouse but lose it, as I sort of expected with the landlocked Berlin (It was built by an anonymous AI).

In 690 BC we build the Pyramids,and 570 BC we nail the colossus. Commerce looks pretty good now even though Berlin is all food and mines.

I have used the lake and one coastal sea tile for needed commerce at times, which helped alot.

We built 2 more cities, one south to collect the marble, and another up north to take the copper. that's 5 cities, plus I'll settle one more north of Hamberg to collect the spices. AFter that we will see how the economy and rival AIs are.

I saved the game at 570 BC and will post a wrap up in teh following post.