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Role Play Challenge: HC's 3CCC

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by madscientist, Apr 25, 2008.

  1. madscientist

    madscientist RPC Supergenius

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    This is good to know about Cathedrals. For a long time I played huge maps in Vanilla and Warlords but went to standard sized maps in BTS.

    OK, cathedrals a plenty!!! But I am limited in getting one of each religion because of the 3 city limit.
     
  2. siggboy

    siggboy Monarch/Epic

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    With the huge commerce you're going to generate any time soon, I don't think there will be a problem to found Confu, Taoism and Islam (if some other religion spreads to you before that you can skip either of these).

    Also you can probably do with only two cathedrals since one of the cities will be ahead of the others anyway.
     
  3. MyOtherName

    MyOtherName Emperor

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    I don't see why you're so pessimistic about your capital -- you can run 8 artists at size 13, when it comes time to do so!!! And it has a few hills to help you build the national epic / religious buildings.

    Your second city looks like its best used for mass cottages (with artists to eat the food surplus).

    So what about your third city? Ideally it should be one of two things:
    (1) Heavy food and hammers, so it can build Parthenon / Sistene Chapel, then run artists
    (2) Heavy hammers, and cottageable, so it can build Parthenon / Sistene Chapel, then run cottages

    Alas, neither seem to be available. Two of the spots I'm considering are:

    (a) 2 North of the southern cows.

    This looks like the best production site available: the cow can feed miners on four grassland hills. Then, when civil service comes, you can lay down enough farms to power the two plains hills. Alas, it's probably best used for wonder spamming, rather than going for nice, focused, cottage and great artist spam strategy.

    (b) 2 West of the southern cows.

    Lots of cottage potential there, although it doesn't really give much production. You will have a hard time building sistene chapel and cathedrals. But... maybe this site could be workshop-spammed instead, and then paved over with cottages when it comes time to push for the win?



    Teching all the way to Biology seems excessive -- after getting Liberalism -> Nationalism, it's a very long time before you get a new technology that helps produce culture! I would expect all of that commerce to be much better spent on :culture: rather than :science:. (Admittedly, I've only tried 3CCC on normal speed)
     
  4. siggboy

    siggboy Monarch/Epic

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    There is no "good" third city available (not enough food), but you can compensate for that with a National Park (1NE of the Wheat is good as mentioned above). The park alone will give you at least 10 artists, and with Sid's Sushi + some farms post-biology this can be a lot more.

    Put the National Epic into the National Park city and the Hermitage somewhere else. The number of specialists you can run in the National Park will be unparalleled. The alternative is probably Cuzco, but the city will not run that many artists in early to mid-game (the pop is needed to work the hammer tiles for wonder spamming). Therefore the Nat Epic might be kind of wasted there, probably better to save it for the National Park city.

    As far as my shadow game goes, read this...
    Spoiler :
    • Missed out on the Sistine Chapel (!), as I've waited too long with the build (couldn't decide where to put it ;-)
    • Wonders built: too many to list here, I did have the Parthenon, Pyramids, Great Library, Statue of Zeus, Versailles, Taj Mahal, Statue of Liberty and many more (80% of the early/mid-game wonders but none of the late ones except the SoL). Most of them in Cuzco, a handful in the Khmer capital and only a select few in the National Park city (Versailles and Statue of Liberty, for which I used two Great Engineers)
    • I got three Great Prophets, several Scientists and lots of Artists (obviously), but I don't have the exact numbers there. I settled three artists and bombed the rest. I also got two or so Merchants, one founded Sid's Sushi the other one researched Currency. Most GP came out of Cuzco, the late Great Artists came out of the National Park.
    • I could not found any religions myself (got beaten to all that I tried), so I ended up spreading the one that I got first. It was not the majority religion, but I could convert Wang and he signed a Defensive Pact with me which lasted until the end (see below...), also after he changed into Free Religion.
      Therefore I only built three temples, monasteries and one cathedral overall.
    • I did not research rifling (mistake, again, see below), I stopped after Medicine.
    • The National Park city was stagnating at size 17 at the end, running 19 artists. I liked that ;-).
    • Founded Sid's Sushi in the Khmer capital and spread it to Isabella to complete a quest. At the end I was running a nice little profit at 100% culture and each of my cities was generating 10f and 40 culture from the corp.

    Now here's the thing: I lost the game 10 turns before I would have won. Why? Ragnar declared on me in 1814 with a bunch of Frigates and a few Galleons full of cannons and medieval troops. Since I did have no defenses to speak of, I lost Cuzco and the game was over. He did the stupid AI way of attacking right off the ship without any bombarding, so probably with two or three riflemen I would have defeated his entire SoD...

    I'm a bit annoyed right now but, well, lesson learned ;-). The game would have been over at around 1835 with all three cities hitting the target at almost the same turn.

    Leaving aside that stupid mistake which in the end cost me the victory I would say that this was a very easy challenge due to the semi-isolated start and extremely easy defeat of the only contender on the island.

    Without the national park and a reliable ally (Wang) who also turned out to be the strongest AI civ this would have been a lot harder.
     
  5. siggboy

    siggboy Monarch/Epic

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    When going the cottage way (no National Park), it is better to save some money and then rush-buy all the missing infrastructure under Universal Suffrage (use Golden Age to get in and out for free).

    Wonders should be spammed in the capital, it is too good production wise for a pure GP farm, and exceptionally well suited for the Moai Statues as well.
     
  6. NintendoTogepi

    NintendoTogepi Noble Pacifist

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    I played a shadow game. It was surprisingly kind of frustrating. Somehow my economy crashed after capturing the Khmer city and then I missed out on like 5 wonders by one turn :crazyeye: (pyramids...statue of zeus...shwedagon paya and a few more over the course of the game)

    I gave up at like turn 150 with my crashed economy (How did I crash it, I only had 3 cities!)

    Maybe it's cause I was running an SE...would cottages have helped?
     
  7. BalbanesBeoulve

    BalbanesBeoulve Emperor

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    I cottaged the flood plains in the old khmer capital, and that was it, farmed the rest, got most of my science from rep artists and trade routes and a few settled rep great merchants, plus colossus powered coasts and oceans. was running at 100% science most of the game. Temple of Artemis + Great lighthouse in the capital is as you probably already know, a sick combo.




    Anyway just finished my game. Super super easy.
    Spoiler :

    Won in 1692. I never researched astronomy, never researched sci method, never researched constitution. Though i did manage to get combustion just from my artist specialists, though i never built a single boat beyond a work boat.


    Culture graph


    With only 3 cities I had double the GNP as the next closest civ. And i never even got to shrine my 2 holy cities. Even more amazing, i was #1 in population.


    Naturally got the top 3 cities.


    And finally the score, 28k.


     
  8. madscientist

    madscientist RPC Supergenius

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    Well, I would like to say I am updating this game. Unfortunately the computer has forgotten my photobucket account password and I had to have it emailed to me. Of course I used my work email when I signed up, so the full segemnt will have to wait until Monday night.

    I can say that the segment was long. We nailed alot of wonders in Cuzco, settled everyone. We met three other AIs, Wang/Isabella/Charlemagne. Although we founded Confuscism, we have not adopted any state religion. It is 500 Ad and only now have I started building any military besides the origional Quencha warriors!
     
  9. Krick19

    Krick19 Prince

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    I hate myself for doing this, but I am a spelling loser. It's Huayna Capac. And it is Quechua.
    Anyways, I think your last City should be somewhere to nail a lot of wonders.
     
  10. madscientist

    madscientist RPC Supergenius

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    Huayna Capac's Quechua! Got it ;)

    The last city was NE of the wheat, west of the dyes. My thinking is to farm/watermill while allowing ourselves to work those 2 dyes which are essentially instant villages.

    The capital has actually done well in wonders and Great People. The only issue here is whether I gambled too long with Quechuas and risk an immediate military attack even though we are tops in tech!

    Damn photoshop password!
     
  11. Johnpecan

    Johnpecan Warlord

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    I am in total agreement. HC has been my favorite as well!
     
  12. madscientist

    madscientist RPC Supergenius

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    Huayna Capac's 3 City Cultural Challenge: PArt II

    As I promised a long round!!!

    First of all we meet the next AI



    OK, an easy leader to get along with

    We proceeded to spam wonders in Cusco, getting Stonehenge, the Great Wall and finally the oracle




    We selected MEtal Casting as the free tech for fast forges and first crack at the Colossus.

    Here is the currect view of Cuzco, note we popped silver



    Our first GP



    We settled

    And finally we settled our third city, claiming the 2 dye and the wheat



    We built the pyramids and acutally founded



    We did NOT convert in hopes of diplomacy. We have yet to build anything besides the starting Quechuas

    And adjust our civics



    After teching IW we locate one close source of iron.



    Soon the former Khmer capital claims the iron. We are set for self defense providing we can build a decent army. We also built the Colossus. We also got a second GProphet which we settled un Cuzco and met



    Now this I DO NOT like, and she is located off the coast SW of us.

    Wemanaged to build the parthenon in Cusco but missed out on the Great Library in our third city by a few turns.

    And a nice backfill trades





    We do not need monarchy for HR but building wineries is a big bonus.



    We got the free GArtist from Music and settled him in Twianku



    In interest of peace we tributed alphabet to Issabella.

    We meet another Zealot



    And am I ever glad to have NOT adopted a state religion.

    And while we are still running arround with Quechuas, you can see our big tech lead.



    It would certainly be nice to have some military from this. I'lkl put it on the To Do List.

    Since Wang was "We Have Enough On Our Hands" I agree to this trade in hopes of getting him his favorite civic



    We also managed to build the Sistene CHapel.

    And finally at the save, let's have a look at the full three city area



    We are claiming some nice resources out side of the standard BFC's

    And a view of our three cities







    Sury's capital I am saving for the National Park and mass artists there. IOf we don't get that far, oh well.

    So right now I am trying to spam crossbows out quickly to boost the power numbers and avoid any unwelcomed visits.

    There are also 2 other AIs out there!!!

    Most likely proceeding with the game but looking for any comments.

    For completion, here is the tech path of the segment

    Pottery/Masonry/Meditation/priesthood/sailing/CoL/IW/Aesthetics/Polytheism/Lit/Drama/MAth/Music/Machinery/Calender/Currency start CS
     
  13. BalbanesBeoulve

    BalbanesBeoulve Emperor

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    Cuzco has so much food, it's ridiculous. -5 unhealthiness, no lighthouse, and you still have a surplus of 1. But yeah, get a lighthouse built there. I also used it as my national epic city, and was running a ton of artists.

    The religious situation is pretty unfavorable. I lucked out on my game and wang and isabella were the same religion. It spread to me and we were a happy hindu family. Unfortunately i think you're going to be stuck with confucianism, since the AI never sends missionaries overseas. Are Taoism and Islam still available? You should definitely try to get at least 1, if not both, because only having 1 cathedral is going to suck.

    Isabella and Wang should start sending settlers to your island soon, so maybe wang will spread a hindu missionary that way.

    Also it looks like Tiwanaku will be your slowest culture city, so if you get any great engineers send them over there to rush a wonder or two. And i'd settle any additional GP you get there too. Even a great prophet will add 2 culture with the sistine chapel.

    The Khmer capital was taken early enough to where it should have been able to get some early wonders, it was a mistake to build them all in the capital. For now i'd leave Cuzco on troop building duty and see if there's any wonders you can still build in your other two cities. And if not, at least get them monasteries and any other culture buildings you have access to. Neither of them has theaters, those are awesome when built early because they double to 6 culture.

    Trade resources with Isabella and Charlemagne. You can get fish, pigs, and rice. Plus you have 2 unimproved wheat tiles. That will drastically improve your health situation. You can also get ivory from charles, even if you have to pay gold, so you can build the statue of zeus quicker. Tons of culture and artist GPPs? Definitely go for it. Maybe in the Khmer capital, chop the hill forests to rush it, and so you can work those hills. Aim to win before biology. You still have a bunch of calendar resources that need to be improved, so maybe think about making another worker or two.


    And after checking your save seems that Taoism is out of the picture. So unless you can get divine right, you'll be stuck with a single religion.

    And after checking again Christianity is still up for grabs? holy crap. Holy crap. BULB CHRISTIANITY WITH YOUR ARTIST. The extra cathedral and culture and shrine culture will far outweigh the benefits of settling a great artist.

    Small spoiler regarding manually researching Christianity.
    Spoiler :
    Going full out on science, building beakers and assigning as many science specialists, you miss christianity by 1 turn. If you have a previous autosave, even by a couple of turns, you can still get christianity, and then get divine right. 3 religions would be a ridiculously massive boost. Either way, you definitely want divine right, so i would make that your next research priority.

    But you can still self research it if you starve your cities a bit in order to assign more scientist specialists. I'd do it as it's definitely worth it.

     
  14. madscientist

    madscientist RPC Supergenius

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    Huayna Capac's 3 City Culture Challenge: PArt III

    Cruising along, with a big decision to make at the end. Teching is insanely stronge, and we have a decent enough military to hopefully deflect some AIs, we hope. More on that later.

    First of all a view of our third city



    Within a few turns the barb city culture flipped to us and we disbanded it.

    We proceed with improvements and tech

    TEchpath for this segment went CS/Fuedalsim/HBR/Guilds/Paper/Philosophy/Education/Liberlaism/ start DR since Islam has not been founded yet.

    We had no shame this game, and gave into every single request from the AIs. With no religion we are now pleased with Charles and Issy, and Friendly with Wang. See, you do not need religion to establish good diplomacy.

    We did get an unexpected GP



    I saw no use for this guy so I started a golden age.

    We met one of the last 2 Ais who has been in somesort of war because of the GGs popping up.



    Given the techs he does not have and the inprobablility of trading with my collegues, I do not see him as an immediate threat.

    After being first to liberalsim



    We selected nationalism and started on the Taj. We have NOT adopted FS yet, preferring to get the Taj completed first.

    A surprise visit from Charles.



    And I got this message



    Which is where I saved!!!!

    Glance Diplomacy



    And victory conditions.



    We have several settled GAs in Tiwanka and we also used a culture bomb which sealed off any southern land from AIs settling..


    OK folks, the million dollar question, do we adopt Buddhism to cater to Issabella and Charles or maintain FR (which we can adopt as soon as the Taj is done). All three cities were converted at once (must have been a random event) so we can at least get another cathedral!!!

    As far as teching, I was planning to get through Biology at least for the NP. I was also thinking of Sid's with the Free Great MErchat at economics which we seam to have a lock for (as noone has education and we only need banking).

    OK, Buddhism or FR?
     
  15. Commodore Nate

    Commodore Nate Warlord

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    Maintaining FR is going to be the best-if you're already at pleased with your neighbors, you don't need to worry about them backstabbing you too much.
    That 10% science is also going to indirectly contribute to your military, as you can research military techs faster, giving you a higher power rating.

    Of course, you still need troops to ensure that power rating stays high enough :)

    But you need another religion to get that last cathedral, and unfortunately, you can't have religions autospread anymore since all your cities are Buddhist. If Christianity hasn't been dropped yet, definitely bulb theology to get Christian cathedrals up.
     
  16. BalbanesBeoulve

    BalbanesBeoulve Emperor

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    Blah, my advice was useless and too late. I can't believe an AI actually shipped a missionary overseas. That never happens to me. That makes up for missing out on Christianity.

    Personally i'd go Buddhist as to switch to pacifism. Wang should stay at least at pleased even if you switch to buddhism.
     
  17. goldenhero

    goldenhero Warlord

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    Add a vote for FR. You're already pleased and up with 3 of 4 neighbors. Right now you won't have too much to worry about..although I don't know how far away Ragnar is. He's cautious, and tends to like war >.>. So I guess my idea is to stay with FR, but start building up the military and getting the power graph up..but culture buildings should take precedence over a unit (at least I think so, as that is the point of the RPC) btw that tech rate is amazing...300+ beakers lol
     
  18. madscientist

    madscientist RPC Supergenius

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    Yep. Pyramids for representation/Wonderspam/settled specialists!!!!

    Regarding Ragner I'll like have infantry by the time I see any Beserkers!!!

    Keep the votes coming, I am split myself between FR and Buddhism.
     
  19. Mesousa

    Mesousa -8.38 -6.67

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    Having the Sistine Chapel when going for cultural, but not adopting a state religion seems like such a waste ... I'd go with Buddhism, it'll give you a huge boost with Isabella and Charlemagne, maybe enough for defensive pacts later on. As long you don't totally neglect your military, you should be safe enough from Wang Kon.
     
  20. Bandobras Took

    Bandobras Took Emperor

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    Have to agree. You need some sort of State Religion or you're completely blowing the Sistine Chapel.
     

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