Role Play Challenge:Ramesses the Intolerant: Battle of the Builders

[mzprox]

other questions:
-can we build wonders in our other cities or only Thebes?

-back to my civics question above: i saw in your other topics that you said that we can be in free market as long as we dont have communism to get state p. But it's easy not to get communism... so do you have a rule here?

 

[madscientist]

other questions:
-can we build wonders in our other cities or only Thebes?

-back to my civics question above: i saw in your other topics that you said that we can be in free market as long as we dont have communism to get state p. But it's easy not to get communism... so do you have a rule here?

Wonders may be built in other cities however, I plan to show the power of getting as many as Possible in Thebes to generate GPs. The settled GPs (I hope mostly GSs, GEs, GPs) produce extra hammers which essentially increase production more.

The civic rules are in place to maximize production. Bureacracy has +50% hammers to Thebes, Caste system has +1 hammer to workshops (yes they can be built in Thebes), State Property for the +10% production boost, OR for the +25% production boost from Ramessesism. The Government civic is open as all those civics can help the WS/SSE game.

Thanks for following and I hop[e and answered your question(s)

PS: Your English is fine, probably better than my own

 

[madscientist]

Looking through the pre-game I saw " first GS used for academy, all others must be settled" and then saw "this city is going to be Wonderland: only farms and mines". Why do you need an academy?

Edit: I guess if you manage to nab the pyramids an academy could come in useful!

Yep, I am thinking of the Pyramids bigtime. Ramesses without the Pyramids are a big disappointment although I think the Oracle to MC slingshot for cheap forges is more important.

Settled GPs under representation can produce an enormous amount of beakers.

 

[madscientist]

Only farms and mines in Thebes no workshop or watermils?

I probably should clear this up. No cottages in Thebes, but any other improvement is allowed. Watermills/Workshops/Windmills/Forrest Preserves/Lumbermills are open.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Haha, I didn't realize no cottages in was a rule, but seriously if the objective is wonderspam in a city why would you make them when you need hammers?

I did put cottages elsewhere though, making this a kind of hybrid CE . The capitol turned into what I'd normally define as "gp farm" so every other city is built for cottages or hammers!

I know, I'm weird, but I seem to like cottages almost as much as DaveMCW. Almost.

 

[mzprox]

The civic rules are in place to maximize production. Bureacracy has +50% hammers to Thebes, Caste system has +1 hammer to workshops (yes they can be built in Thebes), State Property for the +10% production boost, OR for the +25% production boost from Ramessesism.

I understand this, but how strict is this rule?

A,: you can have these civics and nothing else

B,: as soon as you have the techs you have to switch to these civics but untill then you can have others (like slavery)

C,: like B, but the difference that you are forced to get those civics as soon as possible (hard to define). For example if i dont like state property i just dont research communism.

so A-B-C?

 

[madscientist]

I understand this, but how strict is this rule?

A,: you can have these civics and nothing else

B,: as soon as you have the techs you have to switch to these civics but untill then you can have others (like slavery)

C,: like B, but the difference that you are forced to get those civics as soon as possible (hard to define). For example if i dont like state property i just dont research communism.

so A-B-C?

First understand my primary RPC rule, HAVE FUN!

A) When those civics are available you must adopt them and stay in them

B) Slavery/Vassalage/Free MArket are acceptible up until you open the techs for the required civics. SO if desired you can delay CoL, Civil Service, Communism as long as you can/want.

C) Yep. Never tech Communism and then you never need to adopt SP. Understand according to the rules, since GPs need to be settled you can never get a corp unless you capture the HQ from another AI! If you manage to actually do that, conbgrats and perhaps you deserve the right to avoid SP!

 

[mzprox]

It's clear now, however i just wanted you to choose one from ABC
The fun is guaranteed.. i had fun with the barbaric mayans even tho i got crushed by the barbarians 3 times already.. i will try again.. not used to raging barbarians and i always tried to get some economic tech b4 military.. anyway its offtopic here.. maybe i will have better luck with this. especially since in my normal games i always do SE economy and i prefer to settle the GPs in my capital anyway (except first GS and engineers -when i can build a wonder)

 

[TheMeInTeam]

First understand my primary RPC rule, HAVE FUN!

A) When those civics are available you must adopt them and stay in them

B) Slavery/Vassalage/Free MArket are acceptible up until you open the techs for the required civics. SO if desired you can delay CoL, Civil Service, Communism as long as you can/want.

C) Yep. Never tech Communism and then you never need to adopt SP. Understand according to the rules, since GPs need to be settled you can never get a corp unless you capture the HQ from another AI! If you manage to actually do that, conbgrats and perhaps you deserve the right to avoid SP!

except that once you start capturing AI cities, SP is often the only way to pay for them! You threw so many IND leaders in that it's extremely difficult to build all the wonders (I sure as !@#$ couldn't), which means you might need to get them the other way...SP is almost mandatory (and certainly optimal) with these rules whether you want to tech it or not.

This is an interesting game because there's a number of ways to achieve the target results...ranging from founding a religion and spamming wonders to just getting a religion and buildings as many wonders as possible without killing expansion.

Careful not to take vassals and have them subsequently build wonders (or vassal them before capturing all their wonders) . Usually if you kick an AI around enough and vassal it, never giving it techs, it has almost no chance of building new ones. Fun in the RPC angle too, because you can force your religion haha.

 

[Feyaria]

As in this game the capital will be the most important city, the best thing about state property will be the +1 for watermills and workshops. I think the city can run without any farms while in SP and reach a size >20. With a levee and some settled GP, GE and GS the raw hammers will be about 80 to 100, realy a production monster.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

I'm testing out more lumber mills for the health to get away with more production buildings. I'm not sure how that will net out to SP watermills, but even if I knew I'd leave the decision up to our excellent RPC host in terms of how to do it in the "real" game!

 

[madscientist]

Intolerant Ramesses and teh Battle of the Builders: Part I

The Egyptian people fall on their knees in fear and adoration as their king and God (well, the aspect has not occurred yet) emerges from his tent to dictate what the Egyptians must do.

Ramesses looks from the hill and directs his entire magnificent military force of club-weilding brutes to move west

Nothing particularly interesting, However, Ramesses decides to move the settling Egyptian west

How to start here he wonders

Ramesses starts by researching AH/BW/Mysticism/Fishing/Masonry/Polytheism and start Priesthood.

His build order went worker/ 4 warriors/settler/Stonehenge/warrior/Settler/ start the Great Wall.

Very quickly the Warrior explores east and reaches the end of the land mass

Very nice, stone!!!

AFter exploring to the west we quickly find the shore and also

Across the sea!!! Yes ladies and Gentlemen, our God-King in fact has an entire land mass to himself to wonderspam! I should know by now that alot of spoilers means something like this!!!

The exploring Egyptian warrior was also pretty productive, getting 87 gold, experience and

Hence why we went after BW second. After AH and BW

OK, we have easy access to horses but no copper.

A view of the entire continent

Ramesses decides to quickly drop a very close second city to claim horses, yet positioned well to claim the seafood upon border pop.

A view of Thebes early on showing a strong Production base already

Which got us

Instant access to priests in each city!!!! We hold back from running priest specialists for now, preferring to push out cities and the Great wall.

And we get a great Random event, giving tin to one of our mines and +2 hammers

We drop our third city directly ontop of the stone while building a road to that city. Hopefully Ramesses can quickly nab the pyramids while the other 2 cities worry and empire developement and military.

I should note that my military approach is different than usual. I ignored hunting/archery once I found we had horses and saw that we are alone on the continent.

As we are building the Great wall in Thebes, I saved and here is the entire land.

Alot of what we do next depends on whether we get the Great wall. If we do then I say warriors are enough until we get war-chariots up and tech Iron Working!

City #2 looks pretty good so far and should be producing workers/settlers once we establish seafood and horses. Once we tech sailing we can try for the Great Lighthouse, but that may be a stretch. Ditto the Colossus especially since we are missing copper.

As far as Thebes I think we very quickly build the Oracle chopping it out if need be. The MC slingshot is too improtant to miss out on. After that, the pyramids!

A fantastic start so far, the only drawback is that there is no Ramessesism yet.

PS: PhotoBucket is having problems. I uploaded the screenshots but I am not sure they will come across right away. I can add the screenshots later once the website fixes it's problems.

 

[bestje]

looking good so far, thats a pretty nice bit of land you have available to settle

did you make a final decision about which religion you want?

the screenshots are up by the way

 

[D_almighty]

With Polytheism, aren't you one tech from Monotheism? Seems like the fastest way to go if you can manage it.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

To 1861 AD - Think I can pull it off though my approach made this kind of annoying .

Spoiler :

Made peace with Rome temporarily.

1365 Another artist . At least it's worth minimal money/beakers, which does get multiplied nicely.
1435 Inca gets Liberalism . Grrr. I have rifling now but will attack caesar with medieval stuff as I look to take all already built wonders and force capitulation except against inca, which is getting dogpiled last.
1450 DoW caesar. Rome and Antium are his only cities with wonders. Take and cap hopefully!
1455 America and France and someone's colony all chain declare on me .
1465 Rome is a hill city and it took some effort to bombard too . With 7 units garrisoned, it wouldn't be a cakewalk to down it. KEY POINT IN WAR - use units/promos wisely. I came in there with trebs, mace, knight, and 2 muskets. I lost 2 units taking this city. So far so good!
1495 I lose one unit to capture a 5 garrison Antium. 1 rifle used here, rest still musket/knight/treb. Great engineer settled in Thebes. I have all the roman wonders now and just have to force capitulation.
1510 His other hill city on this continent costed me 4 units . Not like I don't have over 30 on this side but still.
1520 China DoWs me. Oh well. Fight germany then you backstabbing idiot. I'll come for whatever wonders you've managed shortly.
1570 Rome won't capitulate because he's an idiot . I'm going to burn gaul and continue taking cities.
1605 I burn gaul with rifles/cannon produced entirely from my german captures and then I get a new vassal The war puts germany below the pop where it can break free!
1615 I shuffle my troops towards china while teching SP. Note that since I went the lumbermill route, SP mostly makes sense due to intercontinental forays, I don't really need it for hammers in the capitol. A lot of them are riverside for levies too and the capitol is +9 health ATM . Cuzco has spammed all of HC's wonders...I'm saving him for later though since he's pretty tough.
1655 Qin has rifles but no wonders. I will cap him anyway to avoid further trouble and to make sure HC is utterly surrounded. Thebes finishes ironworks .
1700 China is mine. HaaaaaaaaaaHAHAHAHAHAHA! Stalin is next, since he has the temple of artemis.
1704 Dow Stalin. Again, ToA and cap. Why so many caps? To keep myself away from domination while still getting wonders .
1706 Temple of Artemis belongs to Egypt.
1712 Artist event annoyingly in rome so I'll have to shuttle him over. Spy settled in thebes! Thebes now has 9 settled GP and an academy - 3 prophet 2 artist 3 engineer 1 spy. Soon another artist.
1714 FINALLY State Property. This civic powered me up a lot as I was being killed by distance maintenance. Stalin gets a roman city ^_^.
1716 Forgot I had a prophet and GG to shuttle to thebes, so I settled them. Stalin also caps this turn.
1730 I wanted HC next but he has infantry and I don't...so I am going to do something about America/france (and take the taj mahal from roosy, his only wonder)
1732 Finally settled that event artist in thebes
1748 HC is out-teching me. He even has the pentagon . I have 3 turns till assembly line. Fortunately for me, I can take him after this as he's going to get dogpiled by virtually everyone in the world, I'll be dropping a 50 man stack near cuzco, and moving another stack through china to the west...but first to get the last non-incan wonders. I can probably win AP immediately after capping HC if the little colony vassalings in the island chains don't want to fold.
1752 I DoW America...which is close to infantry but they don't have them yet! I won't need long! I land next to boston, his only city with a wonder.
1754 Every non-incan wonder in the world belongs to EGYPT and the GOD KING. DIE DIE DIE!
1758 I put down washington. Of course he won't talk due to his vassals, which is a poor feature. I have double the raw power of his vassals and him combined, and I have more and stronger vassals...!
1776 Another GG settled in thebes
1784 There are some elements of this game that are so !@#$ing stupid I HATE them. I took boston, washington, new york and Philly. I HAVE FOUR TIMES ROOSY'S POWER. FOUR TIMES. He won't capitulate. Since I have his wonder, he's behind in tech, and pretty much removed any ability for him to make more wonders since he has only ISLANDS with 2 CITIES MAX, I just take peace. Stupid moron. If I had time I'd nuke you to !@#$. Onward...
1784 again - French have broadway, necessitating a strike there. OK.
1808 A lavish wedding causes france to declare on me .
1830 My forces march into lyons to take cultural pressure off of the former american taj city.
1836 Paris falls.
1840 With 5x the french power, still no capitulation. All the better, I probably need to make sure this idiot won't make more wonders.
1844 I get to plastics first and can make TGD in 7 turns on epic ^^. 739 hammers 1st turn into it
1847 I capture every french mainland city. SEVEN cities with minimal losses. SEVEN. STILL not capitulation, because he has a colony with 3 cities off somewhere. I take peace. Again - no way this idiot is going to do anything wonder wise ever again. So annoying though. Ah yes...China is finally below a threshold where it can break free .
1857 HC had me beat to mass media. I beat him to the UN by building it in 3 turns in thebes .
1861 The stage is set. Egypt vs Inca. Wonders vs more wonders. I have forces to hit from the east straight @ cuzco, and a MUCH larger force massed at HC's SW border. I am over the domination pop but 20% under the land limit (this is why I vassaled everyone after crippling their tech/production, except for the colony idiots who can rot in hell over there). It's late though so I'm going to bed until tomorrow! Some highlights:

View attachment 189535

 

[mzprox]

Here is my game's summary so far :

Spoiler :

I went on a quite different approach. Settled in place started teching towards BW and masonry, founded a second city next to the stone and i have built the pyramid in Thebes and the great wall in my second city. B4 this i had to build lots of warriors since i couldnt build anything else . The exploration and the random events didnt give me any good :/. i always got disasters only..
Anyway after this i went for the alphabet, i wanted to trade the techs so i skipped important things like fishing pottery etc.
After that my goal was the great library. i have built it along with the Parthenon and national epic.
Next target was the bureaucracy. i was close to get the code of laws. and the religion along with it when Judeaism spread into one of my cities... well i have adopted it and by now i have spread it in all my cities.-BUT while my people love this religion they still dont really understand what monoteism means.. how could be only one God.. non-sense.. the date is 1250 AD now but we still dont have that tech
After civil service i went for pacifism and adopted it. This is actually a big difference, i wont use organized religion.. if only i could but the tech is still missing.
Next: education. My cities (i have only 7 and i dont plan to build more) were waiting to start building the unvercities so i could build the Oxford U.
From that point i could really research fast. In 860 AD i got Biology from liberalism
Now the date is 1250, i was in peace but in this year France and his vassal, England declared war on me.... my defense is quite weak. i have techs like Corporations, electricity (Broadway already built ), railway with steampower, but the French landed with their musketiers and my best is the granadier.. well i hope they wont bring many more units..

my plan is to get the tanks or even better the modern armors and get every important city almost effortless when the time has come. till then i try to build every wonder avaible. I will post picture of my capital later.

 

[Orzio]

QUOTE=mzprox;7275470]

Spoiler :

I went on a quite different approach. Settled in place started teching towards BW and masonry, founded a second city next to the stone and i have built the pyramid in Thebes and the great wall in my second city. B4 this i had to build lots of warriors since i couldnt build anything else . The exploration and the random events didnt give me any good :/. i always got disasters only..
Anyway after this i went for the alphabet, i wanted to trade the techs so i skipped important things like fishing pottery etc.
After that my goal was the great library. i have built it along with the Parthenon and national epic.
Next target was the bureaucracy. i was close to get the code of laws. and the religion along with it when Judeaism spread into one of my cities... well i have adopted it and by now i have spread it in all my cities.-BUT while my people love this religion they still dont really understand what monoteism means.. how could be only one God.. non-sense.. the date is 1250 AD now but we still dont have that tech
After civil service i went for pacifism and adopted it. This is actually a big difference, i wont use organized religion.. if only i could but the tech is still missing.
Next: education. My cities (i have only 7 and i dont plan to build more) were waiting to start building the unvercities so i could build the Oxford U.
From that point i could really research fast. In 860 AD i got Biology from liberalism
Now the date is 1250, i was in peace but in this year France and his vassal, England declared war on me.... my defense is quite weak. i have techs like Corporations, electricity (Broadway already built ), railway with steampower, but the French landed with their musketiers and my best is the granadier.. well i hope they wont bring many more units..

my plan is to get the tanks or even better the modern armors and get every important city almost effortless when the time has come. till then i try to build every wonder avaible. I will post picture of my capital later.

[/QUOTE]

Spoiler :

Poor people they are so confused that they belive in serval Ramses gods.

 

[vicawoo]

It's only monarch, great lighthouse shouldn't be that hard. Don't get iron working soon. Next priority should be mathematics.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

It's only monarch, great lighthouse shouldn't be that hard. Don't get iron working soon. Next priority should be mathematics.

Don't forget he littered the map with IND leaders and made it big & small. You can't screw around like that or they'll get your wonders . It's definitely still a monarch game but the wonders obviously go much sooner than normal because of the leaders. Think all 7 AI capitols aren't coastal?!

I agree on the IW though - if you want early wonders you can't screw around with which techs you pick up. There's no jungle to be chopped for key resources or precious land and IW offers no wonders at all! Math is good (opens up a wonder and is on the path to more). He can also consider aesthetics ----> literature. TGL is pretty huge in a WE/SSE capitol, as it's one of the higher GPP wonders, if not the highest, so he's going to want it marble or not (especially with all the multipliers that go into such a city...).

Mad, I'll be VERY impressed if you can get even 2/3 of the wonders in your capitol. Let's see the obsolete skills!

 

[Orzio]

I understand this, but how strict is this rule?

A,: you can have these civics and nothing else

B,: as soon as you have the techs you have to switch to these civics but untill then you can have others (like slavery)

C,: like B, but the difference that you are forced to get those civics as soon as possible (hard to define). For example if i dont like state property i just dont research communism.

so A-B-C?

Spoiler :

IN my shadow game I am paying 250 gold for distance and 500! colony express witout state propety so on this map mad probabl wana beline it