Role Play Challenge:Ramesses the Intolerant: Battle of the Builders

[vicawoo]

Light. Oxford you can build at your leisure, and it takes awhile since you have to wait for your 6th, often low production city to finish its university. Notre dame is engineering, which you have to grab much earlier. Hagia is theology, much earlier

There's a large time gap between nationalism and paper. After you finish off hagia sophia (most likely), you have some time to build sankore, and you certainly won't beeline divine right, you get it when other people are starting to tech it. Meanwhile the AI is busy teching guilds/banking/gunpowder/paper/education

Compare that to mathematics (wonder) aesthetics (2 wonders) code of laws (wonder) calendar (wonder), parallel techs that you will have to trade for, with 4 different special resources and no bureaucracy bonus, coming on the heels of two very expensive wonders (parthenon/temple of artemis).

 

[UncleJJ]

I'm pretty sure Currency will boost your economy so much that actually it will speed up your research such that most other wonder techs will be available earlier. The possible exception being the one tech you would research instead of it. You need markets for happiness in your capital as well as the +25% bonus, you'll get an extra trade route (foreign trade too) and your other cities can build wealth when nothing else is worthwhile to help push the slider higher still. Avoiding Currency is a false economy

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Oxford is NOT a *gimme* in the capitol. You might not want it there. If tech rate is already good, then what's the point? I'd recommend ironworks then, to really take advantage of the hammer advantage granted by all the settled specialists.

How close are the AIs to wonders that you haven't built tech wise? If not very go currency, otherwise get those wonders. It's a *lot* less annoying to build the wonders than go hunting them.

 

[madscientist]

How close are the AIs to wonders that you haven't built tech wise? If not very go currency, otherwise get those wonders. It's a *lot* less annoying to build the wonders than go hunting them.

This is part of the issue. I have avoided Currency to chase techs for teh wonders (CoL, Calendar) which looks to have worked. Music I am aiming for the free GA, just so Ramesses has a permanent musician to sing his priases!

 

[madscientist]

Intolerant Ramesses and the Battle of the Builders: Part IV

A rather strong round. Alot of tech power and production power here although we have stayed at peace and are content on our lone island, for now.

We solved the Currency issue by quickly finding someone willing to trade it

Agustus is very limited is terrain, having only 3 cities. Yet the annoyingly got one of the wonders.

Before we go on, the techpath: Paper/Divine Right/Construction/HBR/Fuedalism/Education and saved.

As of the save we nailed alot of wonders, but have lost a total of 6 so far

GLH: HYuna
Parthenon: Qin
Ankor wat: Hyuna
Chichen Itza: Qin 9We missed it by 4 turns)
Schwedagan Paya: Rome
Notre Dame: Hyuna

We finally met FDR who soon after spun off Victoria as a colony

And once we got paper, I traded for some maps

First with Lou

Which showed

Mostly island regions there.

We made this trade with Bismark

Who by the way gave us a map for free. This trade was essentially to shake thinks up amongst the Buddhist brothers. Qin also dogpiled Bismark, but nothign really came of it.

After Bismark's map

You see how cramped Rome is. Hyuna's land does not look that great either. I am thinking of striking navally later at Rome, then moving an army up from German lands. Bismark right now is pleased with us but I cannot bribe into adopting Ramessesism. The only leader with true Ramessesism vision is Lou and Victoria, neither of which are particularly strong.

So once Bismark went to war, I made this trade.

In my experience, leaders are very reluctant to attack once we are trading a valuable military resource.

After DR

Founded in the Ramessesism holy city!

Wonders, we built the Hag Sophia and

We started Versailles in the Ramessesism holy city, to give our God-King and summer residence!

DR provided valuable in trades.

And very quickly we built

Another excellent trade with Qin

Followed by yet another wonder

So we managed the 4 religious economy wonders: AP/US/SM/SC. Between them, settled GPs in Thebes, and the shrine we are running at 100% science!

Once we got to Civil Service we revolted to Bureacracy.

And Bismark offers

The companion to CS for macemen. A very good defense here of Crossbows/Longbows/Maces with war elephants thrown in.

At this poinbt we started to swing Thebes towards a little more SE that pure production.

Too bad we missed out on the Angor wat.

Finally, we teched education and saved

So it seams obvious to hit liberalism first, take nationalism for the Taj and perhaps beeline towards constitution/democracy for the SoL wonder. After that, time for military such as rifles/cannons/grenaders/astronomy. Byt hat point we should be built up enough to launch some major world attacks, to spread Ramessesism arround the world!

A view of the World

Our cities

And techs

So that's it. Some more wonderspamming, Gp settling, some diplomacy. Techrate is amazingly strong.

That's it for tonight!

 

[DanF5771]

Bismark right now is pleased with us but I cannot bribe into adopting Ramessesism.

You should switch your dll to Dresden's unofficial update to Solver's unofficial patch. After that Bismarck will consider to follow the one and only true faith of Ramessesism. Right now the Attitude-bug will always let him deny that even if you'd get him to friendly.

 

[vicawoo]

I think you should have gone CS sooner and delay divine right/paper and philosophy sooner.

Huayna has nationhood and is probably building the taj mahal as you speak. No AI has education, I don't think you have to race for liberalism that fast.

Are you doing horse whisperers?

 

[DanF5771]

^Yes, I'm afraid the Taj Mahal is lost.
One of the best espionage features in this game is the espionage screen itself. The cost for the "Sabotage Production" mission for Cuzco is 5170 which means that HC has already put some 700 towards the current item in the build queue. It could be something else like Globe Theatre or a Cathedral, but he is HC ...
Note that he only needs 1974 to complete Taj (94% due to AIPerEraModifier).

 

[madscientist]

Intolerant Ramesses and the battle of teh Builders: Part V

A short round update although we went through ALOT of techs! Amazing techrate here with a smallish continent. A lesson to be learned, larger is not always better! Ramessesism has developed in peace and isolation so far, however I think it is time to explode and bring the world to their knees to pay homage to the Great God-King!!!

The only downside of this segment is that we did in fatc lose out on the Taj to Hyuana. A very annoying wonder to lose as it's worthless once captured. But still, Ramesses MUST have it.

Techpath went: Liberalism/Compass/Optics/Printing Press/Engineering/Guilds/Banking/Economics/Astronomy and saved!

Our first GP this segment was greatlty awaited

Yes a GS, we built the academy in Thebes which boosted our already sizeable techrate ALOT! Also we are building universities all over, and need one more for Oxford which shall go into Thebes. The IronWorks is overkill there and frankly Ramesses simply does not care for the pollution in his grand city!

we do have control of the AP and tried to drive this through twice

But simply not enough support there!.

We easily get to liberalism first

I opted for nationalism as it's worth the most AND on teh path to the next wonder SoL.

Speaking of which we got Ramesses summer house built in the Ramessesism holy city.

Which had essentially NO benefit to us!

Once we teched engineering, we observed this

Tech superiority!!! Qin and HC got astronomy soon, but by the end we are again tops in tech!

At this point we saved.

The question is what to tech next????

1) constitution/democracy for the SoL?
2) Scientific Method/Communism/physics for the Kremlin and 2 free GPs.
3) Gunpowder/chemistry for sea supremacy.

or do we simply target rifling/Military tradition for for military supremacy and rip into the world!!!!


Our standings right now

Techs after Astronomy

The limits of Ramessesism in our Empire

Civics

I see only Sp needed here.

Now we do need to start flexing our military muscle. SO I am thinking of hitting Justinian, then Agustus

And use Rome as a springboard into HC's empire. Qin can wait and hopefully the German behaves.

Or, we could simply start an assault of the mainland starting with Bismark.

I hope everyone can appreciate the wonderspamming/settled GPs here. The tehcrate is nuts, and we have been generous in building military here. Those wonders provide definite bonus' yet produce GPPs which allow faster GP production.

 

[cheffster]

I hope everyone can appreciate the wonderspamming/settled GPs here. The tehcrate is nuts, and we have been generous in building military here. Those wonders provide definite bonus' yet produce GPPs which allow faster GP production.

Having your own continent with an Industrial Civ coupled with stone is an amazing gift and really does show the strength of wonder-spamming/settled Specialists.

Very entertaining Game Mad-Scientist, this sort of map/strategy is my favourite strategy in Civ, I couldn't help testing a shadow game and the /turn that's potentially possible get out of a map like this is early on is really, really absurd.

As far as the question of what to do next.

I would very STRONGLY recommend making 2-3 knights and a galley to take over the 2 barbarian cities to the southwest of the main continent. I know the antarctic climate here does not appear friendly but it does have something very usefull: COPPER!

And why might copper be usefull?
If you tech Constitution->Democracy (which won't take to long with a strong science rate) then you can start building the Statue of Liberty. SOL is extreamly powerfull but can take aeons even with industrial bonus and a high city without copper so I would get right on that.

I noticed in your save you started researching gunpowder - but I don't think that's really needed right now, because we know at least Bizmark is researching gunpowder so we could easily just trade for it while teching to Democracy for SOL.

 

[madscientist]

A very long update coming. Lot's of warring finally, with some interesting results. We are doing exceedingly well, nailing all the available wonders, putting ourselves on the path to capture all the remaining ones, and TAKING one of those lost wonders that Ramesses justifiably deserves!

 

[madscientist]

Intolerant Ramesses and the Battle of the Builders: PArt VI

The true power of the WS/SSE economy has started to materialize. As I mentioned, alot of warring and unhappiness can be controled easily with the slider at little or no loss in techrate.

Before I start, the techpath: Gunpowder/Chemistry/RP/Communism/Democracy/Rifling/Physics/Electricity.

We got to Communism/Physics first nabbing both free GPs. For the record, we got all 4 free GPs available so far!

Now to the game!

First I took the advice and captured that Antartic Barb city for the copper.

Qin made a very good trading partner

As you will see later we may be regretting this.

And once we mad that trade, wher eis the oil???

Great. And that Antarctic Barb city also has one.

Another trade with Qin.

Which allows us to start out-teching HC.

And once we tech Communism we adjust our civics for probably the last time.

While emancipation may be an issue later, I plan to get those three modern happiness wonders and the broadcast tower early which should offset the happiness problems. Also I am very willing to run the slider at 20% culture to alleviate "We demand Emancipation" issues.

We decide to finally initiate hostilieis, and while this got us into some hot water, it overall helped us by the end.

My plan is fairly simple, take Justinians island, wipe our Agustus, and use it as a launching pad eventually for Hyuna while utilizing Bismark from the south. I must say this has worked fairly well!

Oh yes, we are getting ahead of ourselves. First Justinian

Yes now we can continue.

We decided to get Bismark into things as he generally can be bribed into war by most leaders, and I really do not need another front from that side.

Also HC declared war on us, but never say any units!

We attack the closest Byzantine city.

Then proceeded to capture the entire island. Bismark took that one jungle infested city, which is OK by me.

The idea is to split the island in half first

And during this time we popped another wonder in Thebes.

A useless wonder as I do not plan to use US, but rules do allow government changes so perhaps some quick buying for 1 turn once we get the Christo Redentor wonder.

And as we are moving along, taking care of business

We get a visit from our tech-trading partner.

Gotta love Qin!!!! Just such a classic back-stabber.

As we finish with Justinian's island and start teching rifling (since Qin has it), I decided we need to change diplomacy a bit.
First

Then

Bringing up our only Allie in tech while eliminating an avenue of attack from Qin (which is why I never say any of those protective Chinese rifles!).

At this point, FDR decided to join in the dogpile.

A very good thing I got Bismark preoccupied.

Did I mention I had only one Allie? I keep forgetting this trash.

Pretty week, but still a way to keep FDR busy until I can get peace.

And we finally meet Stalin

Who is the Hindu founder, appears isolated (or was), hates us all, and way behind in tech although I am sure he will finally acquire Astronomy once we build the space elevator. Basically a nice accumulation of land preventing us from getting an Accidental Domination win.

To BE CONTINUED!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[UncleJJ]

Looking good.

You said the Kremlin was not useful to you. Did you know that the Kremlin also boosts Slavery? So you'll effectively get 135 base hammers for each popinstead of the usual 90 on marathon. I've found that very worthwhile in a SE even if I never use US for rush buying.

 

[madscientist]

Intolerant Ramesses and the Battle of the Builders: PArt VI continued

At this point we got a potential AP vote

We opted for war against Agustus, however it got voted down!

We finally got peace with HC, FDR, and Qin

Qin turned pleased with us again and we resumed trading with him.

We also finally got our act together after taking Justinian out and assaulted Rome.

Ramesses is quite pleased, acquiring the Shwedagon Paya wonder, although we already have access to the religious civics.

At this point Agustus had 2 remaining cities, both right up against HC.

The first was simple

Which we razed not wanting to deal with Incan culture pressure at this point.

And since HC may be concerned seeing Egyptian armies coming close to him, we decided to ask our good German friend for help who had just gotten peace with Qin.

After this we got

OK, there are no World wonders until we get electricity, right??

The AP vote came up again.

I really find Qin incredibly funny! Still voting for us, what a guy!

And finally, after screwing up the first assault, we take out Rome's last city.

Bye Bye Agustus, your Prats did not do much good against rifles!

I see no use for Justinian and his few cities so we simply get peace.

We saved here, with about 10 turns left on electricty.

A view of our lands

And a look at the future Egyptian lands, I mean the Incan lands.

I am looking at going right up the eastern coast eventually, leaving some Incan cities as a buffer between us and Qin. Qin I am planning to take out later depending on how strong Bismark is at the end.

And the tech situation.

I say we probably want steel and military tradition before taking on HC even though he does not have rifling. Bismark seams to be doing a good job of taking out his teching abilities. The big question is whether to go radio/mass media first, or steel/MT?

And the Glance screen.

Considering the Buddhist lovefest, I think I have done a decent job in getting them all into some decent wars!

And even though the world does not like Ramessesism too much, we are still able to make some good trades.

Our cities are doing pretty well.

Note the production and beaker output from our land-locked capital! By the way we build Oxford in Thebes.

And diplomacy

And finally demographics

OK, I say we are heading along real well here! I think we need to begin thinking of hitting HC and establishing a stronger foothold on that continent.

So I say after electricity

MT
Steel
Radio
MM

We alter this if we need to get RR/Combustion faster for the navy.

 

[madscientist]

Looking good.

You said the Kremlin was not useful to you. Did you know that the Kremlin also boosts Slavery? So you'll effectively get 135 base hammers for each popinstead of the usual 90 on marathon. I've found that very worthwhile in a SE even if I never use US for rush buying.

This is good to know although in this game I am stuck in caste system due to RPC rules.

 

[madscientist]

Intolerant Ramesses and the Battle of the Builders: Part VII

Moving right ahead with this round. One thing only, Ramesses demands access to The Incan's wonders (and he ahs quite a few!.

Techpath went: Electricity/Military Tradition/Corporation/Steel/Radio/start Assembly line

We exclusively build rifles/cannons/cavalry except for when Thebes was building Broadway.

The early part was rather stagnant with few things to report except perhaps a minor trade.

Getting some cash to upgrade trebs to cannons.

In no time we get

Adding to our happy resources.

We deem the time right

Move our troops out of Rome.

And start ripping apart Incan lands! Those two close and new Incan cities we simply razed, not needing them.

Quickly we move onto the first prime Incan city.

The second

And moved right up the coast

Here we had to regroup our troops a bit so we made some useful trades.

Yes Qin is next on the Ramesses hit list, however he is teching Assembly line already and we do not want him getting the Pentagon before us.

And to prevent any undo advantage to Qin in the Chinese-German wars.

Soon we land another invasion force plus move out recouped main force north.

We capture Tiawanka

Which nets us the Christian Shrine.

And we finally nail Cuzco showing.

WOW! That's some well spread shrine there! While Not the Ramessesism shrine, our God-King is no fool and will gladly accept additional tribute!

We razed one last northern city of HC's

And dragged him into the God-Kings presence.

Yes we took capitulation here. His remain ing cities offer a great wall between us and Qin. Between HC and Bismark we should be able to strike at Qin with little chance of counter attack. We just have to speed along on teh wonders and prevent HC from any techs. Since we can direct his research that should NOT be a problem.

Saved here, waiting as we tech towards AL

Our status:

Wonders

We need both Bejing and Shanghai. Stalin has the Hindu Shrine and while not required, perhaps we can help ouselves to it by the end of the game.

A view of Qin's core shows only a few cities.

Should be easy to take them out.

And once Qin is out of the way, we should have even more of a tech advantage than

WS/SSE!


And alot of the assorted heathens are still fighting amongst themselves while Ramessesism continues to increase!

And finally

Still no way close to domination.

OK, where do we go from here

I say we tech AL/MM/RR/Comb/IND and lay the tank smackdown on Qin.

Wonders are dropping fast in Thebes. Rock and Roll should be done just before we open up the Pentagon. Next Eifel/CR/Hollywood etc...

Victory?

Well space is pretty easy, but I like the idea of Ramessesism going for the Diplo win and seeing all the lands bowing down to the Great God of the Egyptians!

EDIT:

I am adding apicture of Thebes before playing the next segment!

 

[D_almighty]

CONQUEST CONQUEST CONQUEST CONQUEST CONQUEST CONQUEST CONQUEST!

 

[BakingTheArt]

CONQUEST CONQUEST CONQUEST CONQUEST CONQUEST CONQUEST CONQUEST!

This. 10 characters

 

[UncleJJ]

It would be nice to see a picture of Thebes which I guess is a production monster and is producing myriads of GPP. Unfortunately I can't open your savegames yet.

 

[BornSlippy]

It would be nice to see a picture of Thebes which I guess is a production monster and is producing myriads of GPP.

Seconded!


(whatever the number of characters)