Ron Paul Blames US for 9/11 attacks.

[Pasi Nurminen]

Did anyone see the 2nd Republican debates on Fox? I thought they were very well moderated. Fox must be showing it can be a real news outlet, it just doesn’t want to.

Of course, Rupert Murdoch and Roger Ailes are going to treat Republicans respectfully.

Anyway, the highlight for me was when Ron Paul said basically that interventionist US foreign policy contributed to 9/11.

Smart man.

I heard McCain afterwards cheering Rudy on. His explanation for 9/11 is that pure evil just happened to arise in the world and perchance decided to attack the peaceful and benevolent United States. It sounds likes a witch doctor explanation. Do these guys understand history, political science, international relations- they are all PhD level disciplines of study and might have some small insight to offer.

There are a lot of idiots out there who only want to be told that America is great, enemies are evil, America never does anything wrong, etc. They're just playing to the ******** crowd.

 

[IglooDame]

But he's anti-abortion, anti-gay marriage, and voted against a bill which would lead to anti-gay adoption measures too. Blah. I also don't know his opinion on federal funding of science, but if he's against it, that would would completely turn me off from him.

Be aware of his motives. On the abortion issue:

Roe v. Wade was wrongly decided, but not because the Supreme Court presumed to legalize abortion rather than ban it. Roe was wrongly decided because abortion simply is not a constitutional issue. There is not a word in the text of that document, nor in any of its amendments, that conceivably addresses abortion. There is no serious argument based on the text of the Constitution itself that a federal "right to abortion" exists. The federalization of abortion law is based not on constitutional principles, but rather on a social and political construct created out of thin air by the Roe court.

Under the 9th and 10th amendments, all authority over matters not specifically addressed in the Constitution remains with state legislatures. Therefore the federal government has no authority whatsoever to involve itself in the abortion issue. So while Roe v. Wade is invalid, a federal law banning abortion across all 50 states would be equally invalid.

I happen to agree with that, and also the libertarian concept that gay marriage should be opposed not because gays are immoral or whatever, but because it inherently concedes that the government has the power to decide who gets married. I'm guessing his opposition to federal funding of science is in a similar vein - it isn't the federal government's job.

And hey, if you disagree with his reasoning, that's fine, but just know that he's not secretly a closet Christian fundamentalist.

 

[Bill3000]

I happen to agree with that, and also the libertarian concept that gay marriage should be opposed not because gays are immoral or whatever, but because it inherently concedes that the government has the power to decide who gets married. I'm guessing his opposition to federal funding of science is in a similar vein - it isn't the federal government's job.

And hey, if you disagree with his reasoning, that's fine, but just know that he's not secretly a closet Christian fundamentalist.

Yeah, but in both abortion and gay marriage, he's still against both. And when it comes to federal funding of science, there's the necessary and proper clause; besides, I believe that scientific research is the most important part of humanity, so I simply cannot support someone who would want to stifle that for any reason. It just so happens that most of those are fundamentalists, but it's not necessary - I hate the anti-GM hippies too. It's just a matter of him being too much, yet at the same time too little, IMO.

 

[MobBoss]

In my opinion, Ron Paul got owned by Rudy G. and apparently the crowd thought so too.

Basically, Ron Paul helped Rudy G. out a lot by serving that softball up for him.

I dont think Ron Paul is going to win many votes from the american people by blaming them in turn for such things as 9/11. Its just a pure fact that we were not in either Afghanistan or Iraq when 9/11 happened, and our enemies hate us for far, far more than just our presence around the globe.

 

[Pasi Nurminen]

In my opinion, Ron Paul got owned by Rudy G. and apparently the crowd thought so too.

Basically, Ron Paul helped Rudy G. out a lot by serving that softball up for him.

I dont think Ron Paul is going to win many votes from the american people by blaming them in turn for such things as 9/11. Its just a pure fact that we were not in either Afghanistan or Iraq when 9/11 happened, and our enemies hate us for far, far more than just our presence around the globe.

But you're quite ignorant if you don't understand that America's foreign policy played a role in causing it.

 

[MobBoss]

But you're quite ignorant if you don't understand that America's foreign policy played a role in causing it.

No...I dont think its ignorant to realize that our enemies hate our perceived decadence, our freedom, our entire way of life enough to kill thousands of people in a single attack.

Are you saying that our foreign policy decision to help Kuwait remove Iraqi forces from its lands a bad foreign policy decision? Because thats one of the precise reasons Osama Bin Ladin ordered/planned 9/11 - because us infidels were on Saudi Arabian soil while executing our 'foreign policy'.

Perhaps you should read Osamas own words as to why they did 9/11. You might be surprised.

Also, I think its quite ignorant for someone running for political office attempt to pin 9/11 on the American People. Thats like being out to shake hands with people and then commenting on how ugly someones baby is prior to kissing it.

 

[mrt144]

But you're quite ignorant if you don't understand that America's foreign policy played a role in causing it.

you expect Mobboss to believe that?

 

[JollyRoger]

Its just a pure fact that we were not in either Afghanistan or Iraq when 9/11 happened, and our enemies hate us for far, far more than just our presence around the globe.

What other pure facts do you have about 9/11? What country were most of the hijackers from? What country did we have a military presence in on 9/11 but have cut and ran from since 9/11?

 

[Mr. Dictator]

No...I dont think its ignorant to realize that our enemies hate our perceived decadence, our freedom, our entire way of life enough to kill thousands of people in a single attack.

the "terrorists hate our freedoms" schtick is getting old.

why havent the terrorists attacked Amsterdam then, if they hate decadence?

We're talking about rifts that arent just opening up out of the blue. These people aren't born evil.

 

[mrt144]

I just want to point out that Mobboss was a soldier so the critical analysis of his own countries military adventures from a political perspective will not be viewed the same way.

Its a shame too. The belief that America doesn't do or hasn't done anything wrong, under any circumstance is where Mobboss sits and thats why he finds anyone who hates America for foreign policy decisions to be in the wrong.

 

[Pasi Nurminen]

No...I dont think its ignorant to realize that our enemies hate our perceived decadence, our freedom, our entire way of life enough to kill thousands of people in a single attack.

Are you saying that our foreign policy decision to help Kuwait remove Iraqi forces from its lands a bad foreign policy decision? Because thats one of the precise reasons Osama Bin Ladin ordered/planned 9/11 - because us infidels were on Saudi Arabian soil while executing our 'foreign policy'.

No, but it helped cause it. You see, when America does something in the world that some others might not like, that makes them angry. Do it often enough, and the anger will become intense enough for them to be able to justify for themselves action.

Perhaps you should read Osamas own words as to why they did 9/11. You might be surprised.

You're denigrating Ron Paul, but you're going to take Osama bin Laden's words as gospel?

Also, I think its quite ignorant for someone running for political office attempt to pin 9/11 on the American People. Thats like being out to shake hands with people and then commenting on how ugly someones baby is prior to kissing it.

He. Did. Not. Do. That. You see, when you do something, and that causes people to dislike you to the point that they violently attack you, you have to understand the causation behind their actions. In this case, America's foreign policy actions. He didn't pin it on anyone, he was simply stating that America's actions had something to do with the causes of it, among others. This is not rocket science, even you should be able to understand this.

 

[MobBoss]

the "terrorists hate our freedoms" schtick is getting old.

why havent the terrorists attacked Amsterdam then, if they hate decadence?

I give you the murder of Theo Van Gogh: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theo_van_Gogh_(film_director)

Demonstration at the Dam square after Van Gogh was assassinated
DemonstratorsMohammed Bouyeri assassinated van Gogh in the early morning of Tuesday November 2, 2004, in Amsterdam, in front of the Amsterdam East borough office (stadsdeelkantoor) on the corner of the Linnaeusstraat and Tweede Oosterparkstraat, while he was bicycling to work. He shot him eight times with an HS 2000 (a handgun produced in 2000 in Croatia), and Van Gogh died on the spot. Bouyeri then cut van Gogh's throat, nearly decapitating him, and stabbed him in the chest. Two knives were left implanted in his torso, one attaching a five-page note to his body. The note (Text) threatened Western governments, Jews and Ayaan Hirsi Ali (who went into hiding). The note also contained references to the ideologies of the Egyptian organization Takfir wal-Hijra.

I am sure they murdered him because of his foreign policy stance.

 

[mrt144]

thats a hate crime, not terrorism.

 

[MobBoss]

I just want to point out that Mobboss was a soldier so the critical analysis of his own countries military adventures from a political perspective will not be viewed the same way.

Its a shame too. The belief that America doesn't do or hasn't done anything wrong, under any circumstance is where Mobboss sits and thats why he finds anyone who hates America for foreign policy decisions to be in the wrong.

Ok, explain it to me. What foreign policy decisions would be the cause of a 9/11 style attack. Do you mean our foreign policy of giving foreign aid to middle east nations? Our foreign policy of buying oil from Middle east nations?
Our foreign policy of selling military hardware to such nations like Saudi Arabia or the UAE?

Please.....give me examples of our foreign policy decisions that would make us responsible for a 9/11 attack?

 

[MobBoss]

thats a hate crime, not terrorism.

Ah..wrong...didnt you read about the note left for western governments? Sorry, not a hate crime, per se...although hate crimes can indeed be terrorism as well. But lets say it were....why would a Muslim hate Theo Van Gogh?

 

[Pasi Nurminen]

Ok, explain it to me. What foreign policy decisions would be the cause of a 9/11 style attack. Do you mean our foreign policy of giving foreign aid to middle east nations? Our foreign policy of buying oil from Middle east nations?
Our foreign policy of selling military hardware to such nations like Saudi Arabia or the UAE?

Please.....give me examples of our foreign policy decisions that would make us responsible for a 9/11 attack?

You should know that the people who executed 9/11/2001 viewed/view most Middle Eastern governments as being run by apostate rulers. Hint: look up apostate in the dictionary.

 

[Mr. Dictator]

I give you the murder of Theo Van Gogh

btw, you have been pwned (tm pending).

how mature for a 40 year old church goer

an attack on a person is not an attack on a nation.

point out a significant bombing.

 

[MobBoss]

You're denigrating Ron Paul, but you're going to take Osama bin Laden's words as gospel?

Oh, I think both men were speaking what they believe......I just dont think Ron Paul did himself any favors in his choice of words. He basically jumped the shark there and his campaign is pretty much over, what little there was of it.

 

[IglooDame]

Oh, I think both men were speaking what they believe......I just dont think Ron Paul did himself any favors in his choice of words. He basically jumped the shark there and his campaign is pretty much over, what little there was of it.

This coming from one of the most blatantly politically partisan posters in OT. I'm sure you'll forgive us if we take your posted opinion with a few grains of salt.

 

[Left]

I give you the murder of Theo Van Gogh: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theo_van_Gogh_(film_director)



I am sure they murdered him because of his foreign policy stance.

Van Gogh rejected every form of religion. In the late 1990s he started to focus on Islam. He caused widespread resentment in the Muslim community by consistently referring to them as geitenneukers (goat-f*****s).

Thats probably why he got killed. Just sayin'.

btw, you have been pwned (tm pending).

Obnoxious. On the internet.