The Islamophobia Network

[Flying Pig]

Just looking at Trafalgar, Nelson was responsible for the death of several hundred French and Spanish, whose ships he then proceeded to plunder and take as hostage.
Seems like something a terrorist would do.

Well, that's somewhat less morally ambiguous in that he was responsible for the deaths of several hundred French and Spanish volunteer soldiers, who were there with the full intention of killing his men and accepting the risk of death or injury to themselves. It's more like the Romans at Watling Street overrunning and slaughtering the British wives and children who had come to watch their menfolk defeat the occupiers - civilians, yes, but in the eyes of those doing the killing guilty by association.

 

[kochman]

In WWI Britain implemented a blockade that would fall hardest upon civilians, women and children. Germany implented aerial bombardment against London which resulted in the deaths of women and children. In WWII Germany specificaly targeted London for civilian bombing. The UK retaliated by carpet bombing Germany. America went on to firebomb Japanese cities comprised almost exclusively of women and children, along with two nuclear weapons. In Vietnam American troops (and earlier, French troops) would round up entire villages and execute anyone suspected of being a collaborator with the Viet Cong.

Wow... I can't even dignify this with a response.

Moderator Action: Trolling. Also, the tone you have adopted in this thread is lacking in civility. Please improve it.
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

 

[Ajidica]

I wasn't being completely serious with that post, just illustrating the wonders of perspective.

Wow... I can't even dignify this with a response.

So you post anyways? Anyhow, I don't consider the British blockade to be on the same level as intentionaly targeting civilians which some modern militant groups so, but I was simply showing how 'targeting civilians' has been used, quite repeatedly, by nations we like to think of as civilized.

 

[Flying Pig]

Wow... I can't even dignify this with a response.

How about 'fair enough, things that look atrocious can look perfectly reasonable if you view them through completely different eyes, and vice-versa'?

 

[kochman]

How about 'fair enough, things that look atrocious can look perfectly reasonable if you view them through completely different eyes, and vice-versa'?

Since you're asking for my thoughts by way of telling people what they should be, I will give them.
Apples and oranges... AND, I find most of it atrocious to boot! I mean, Nazi Germany, hello!
Also, some distortion... not entirely unexpected...

In Vietnam American troops (and earlier, French troops) would round up entire villages and execute anyone suspected of being a collaborator with the Viet Cong.

 

[Flying Pig]

Also, some distortion... not entirely unexpected...

I cannot believe how long this has taken. Isn't that exactly what the terrorists are being fed? Is it really so hard to see how the modern world can be twisted into evil westerners who all deserve to be killed?

 

[kochman]

They need little more than our support for Israel... I doubt there is much focus on the Vietnam War or WW2 going on.

 

[Traitorfish]

They need little more than our support for Israel... I doubt there is much focus on the Vietnam War or WW2 going on.

I think that Israel would probably do it, to be honest. The fact that their list of grievances goes way beyond that doesn't help.

 

[Squonk]

Sharia, or Muslim religious code, includes practices such as charitable giving, prayer, and honoring one’s parents—precepts virtually identical to those of Christianity and Judaism. But Gingrich and other conservatives promote alarmist notions about a nearly 1,500-year-old religion for a variety of sinister political, financial, and ideological motives.

I don't know what Gingrich guy's written. But the quote that was posted by the OP looks like a manipulation. Yes, obviously shari'a includes charity, prayer and honouring one's parents. But it also includes some very bad stuff. Not that judaic law or church canons and papal bullae (since MA at least up to Vatican I at least) don't. They do. But judaism is an insignificant religion, and no catholic even dreams of putting Lateran IV's canons into actions. To just say that shari'a is all good, all religions are good and in general the same is a great manipulation and avoiding a problem.

And it's funny to find Zuhdi Yasser, who's a muslim preaching compatibility between islam and democracy, among the devil circle of "islamophobia network".

 

[Formaldehyde]

It is merely pointing out that not all Sharia is "evil", much like the Torah, which literally means "the law", or Canon law aren't either.

And you removed the most important part of that particular quote:

... a conservative audience at the American Enterprise Institute that the Islamic practice of Sharia was “a mortal threat to the survival of freedom in the United States and in the world as we know it.” Gingrich went on to claim that “Sharia in its natural form has principles and punishments totally abhorrent to the Western world.”

Casting Sharia in such terms is quite equivalent to antisemitic and anti-Catholic rhetoric which was quite prevalent in the US until the 60s. It was even frequently insinuated quite similarly that if we were not careful that the US would come under "Canon law" and the whim of the Pope.

What is particularly ironic is that the portions of Sharia that some Muslims in the US wish to live under have no "evil" aspects whatsoever. That they are perfectly willing to follow US laws when they contradict aspects of some Sharia law only practiced in a handful of backward countries.

And what is so surprising that a handful of American Muslims themselves are now taking up the cause to warn the world about the supposed evils of their own religion? Fear, Inc. in particular is just as Islamophobic as anything that Geert Wilders has produced. And as mentioned in the OP, it was actually used during NYPD training sessions to warn about the supposed evils of Islam.

Gretchen Carlson Validates Dr. Zuhdi Jasser's Attack On Muslim American Society

In its report, "Fear, Inc.,The Roots of the Islamophobia Network in the United States," Fox News is cited as a place where those promoting Islamophobia have a comfortable platform from which to advance their bigotry. Zuhdi Jasser, the president of a seeming one man organization devoted to fighting Islamofascism, "The American Islamic Forum for Democracy," is mentioned as one of the "validators" in the "Network" as his claim to have inside knowledge of radical Islam allows him to "validate and authenticate manufactured myths about Muslims and Islam." As such, it isn't surprising that he makes frequent appearances on Fox News where he frequently bashes the Council on American Islamic Relations and any other group or individual whom "the network" has identified as suspect, including President Obama who is seen by the Islamophobes as "pandering" to Islamic groups. As noted in the report, he "dangerously and incorrectly labels mainstream Muslim American organizations as subversive, disloyal proponents of a radical-Islam takeover." Fox "News" has allowed him air time to support the Islamophobic/Fox News attacks on the "Ground Zero Mosque." He validated GOP Rep. King's hearing on American Muslim "radicalization." And last week he was back to play the fear of radical Islam card in smearing the Muslim American Society on Fox's morning show for "coffee, smiles, fear, and terror."

The discussion, hosted by Gretchen Carlson, centered on a recent conflict at a Westchester County amusement park over Muslim women being banned for safety reasons from certain rides because of their head scarves. Tempers flared and there was an altercation between the police and some Muslim youths who were arrested. CAIR accused the police of engaging in excessive force. The deputy commissioner of the County Parks Department said that the Muslim American Society, which organized the outing, had been told about the hijab ban. Enter Dr. Jasser to opine on the issue.

Gretch framed the propaganda right away with the description of the conflict as a "wild brawl." She said "more than a dozen people were arrested." (Actually, only 13 but saying more than a dozen leaves it open). She asked Jasser "if safety comes first" and noted that all headgear is prohibited on the park's rides. Jasser did his moderate Muslim shtick when he said that many in his family wear the hijab. So far so good. But then he did his duty to defend those who are defending us from "radical" Islam. He claimed that there is no evidence that Muslims were discriminated against. Then came the smears with his comment about as a person who wants Muslims to "assimilate in a free society," he "looks at groups like the Muslim American Society and see the way these youth react." He accused the society of "conditioning their youth to react viscerally and inappropriately" He claimed that this group has "been discussed as being a Muslim brotherhood front group by the Chicago Tribune." He accused them of creating a melee and "calling in ambulance chasing civil rights groups" He said "this has to stop."

Comment: Once again, Fox & Friends takes "a tempest in a teapot" and elevates it to suit their anti-Islam propaganda meme. Not only did Jasser get to scold the Muslim American society for not being, as he is, a good Muslim; but he also, in a not so subtle manner, included what appeared to be "evidence" that the Muslim American Society is a "front" for the radical "Muslim Brotherhood." The actual 2004 article is a history of the Muslim American Society which is an offshoot of the more radical group. The article provides different perspectives of the somewhat secretive group and notes that while the group is being investigated, no terrorism charges (as of the publication) had been filed. The group also does a lot of charity work but Jasser didn't mention that. The audience was left with one piece of information that contained no further context other than accusations that the Muslim American Society is encouraging lawlessness by Muslims who aren't as "devout" and "moderate" as Jasser whose devotion and moderation allows him to be used by those who hate Islam. Nice.

 

[Masada]

I wasn't being completely serious with that post, just illustrating the wonders of perspective.

The World War One British blockade of Germany was a war crime though under rules that the British had pushed for and signed up for.

Anyhow, I don't consider the British blockade to be on the same level as intentionaly targeting civilians which some modern militant groups so, but I was simply showing how 'targeting civilians' has been used, quite repeatedly, by nations we like to think of as civilized.

It was though. The British knew that the people suffering the effects wouldn't be the troops on the front-line, who are always going to be fed, but the women and children at home. That was all part of the cunning plan to sap German morale.

 

[Quackers]

The German Kaiserliche marine were too scared to take on the Royal Navy after Jutland '16. They deserve it

 

[AL_DA_GREAT]

Islamophobia is something that has become way to mainstream.

One thing that I have noticed with islamphobes is that they tend to be very ignorant about the situation of muslims. They think Iran hates the west because they are muslims and not because of the anglo persian oil company, they think muslims bomb moscow since they are evil, not because the muslims have been forced into Russia/Sovjet union and been treated horrendously.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

Copied from my latest random ranturing Sunday school today (I've been attending my father's class as our family's church really doesn't have anything for 20-somethings), someone asked a question about why the terrorists would want to attack the United States given how benevolent a presence we have always been around the world. I began to explain how Al Qaeda's mission began with the goal of trying to get the US to withdraw support from the cruel and corrupt monarchy of Saudi Arabia, but was interrupted by the Sunday school teacher. He just went on about how he believed that Satan is using the "so-called religion" of Islam to try to harm this Christian nation, and about how a comparison of the end times prophecies of Bible and the Koran shows that the devil set up Islam in order to convince a large portion of the world to follow the antichrist. People also started going on about how intolerable it is for Muslims to try to build their "victory Mosque" near the site, even after I pointed out that it was like banning a Quaker church because of an attack by the Catholic IRA. The teacher than made a major point of his lesson how much better the nation was back in the 1950s, before removing prayer from school led to generations of children raised to think that it was acceptable not to attend church every Sunday and thus led to an extreme mortal and spiritual degradation.


In the main service the preacher (we are without a real pastor at the moment, so the guy filling in was a seminarian who beneath his rather condescending polite surface seems to have real anger issues) spoke out against corrupt leaders, but the only specific example of wickedness that he gave was how intolerable it was for Obama to cancel the day of prayer and celebrate Ramadan in the white house. He seemed to strongly imply that the president is a Muslim dedicated to destroying the nation's heritage. He also strongly commended actions like his own decision to join the army after 9/11 to get back at the terrorists.


With all the talk about the heroes who gave their life 10 years ago today, I was quite disappointed to hear not one word about forgiveness or loving one's enemies. Christ's explicit commandments to love our enemies, to turn the other cheek, and to not resist the evil one, and to forgive those who trespass against us if we wish to be forgiven our own trespasses are the main thing keeping Christianity from being used to justify similar acts of violence, and they have been going completely ignored.

 

[classical_hero]

You are seriously fooled if you really think that their goal is just to remove America from Saudi Arabia and then remove the Monarchy. Many Muslim groups have stated that they see America as the sole nation that supports the "Zionist" regime, whatever that means. Some aren't even that subtle and out rightly call for the extermination of Israel and say that only the Palestinians should have the land. Every where there have been Muslim presence, their has been trouble. Go to Philippines, Southern Thailand and Lebanon. Lebanon was once a peaceful majority Christian nation until Syria imported Islam into the country and we know how Lebanon is now. The history is there, but if you are not going to pay attention to it, then problems will arise.

 

[Tee Kay]

Lebanon was once a peaceful majority Christian nation until Syria imported Islam into the country

Syria didn't "import" Islam into Lebanon, whatever that means.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

Sure, Al Qaeda talks about America's support for Zionism now, but they did not do so originally. For the first several years of the organization's existence it never made any mention of Israel. It was not a major point with them at all until after 9/11, although other more influential terrorists groups like Hezbollah had been focused on that from the beginning. Al Qaeda had to broaden the range of their propaganda to get broader support across the region when the US came after them.


I have no illusions that the type of government that Osama wished would replace the Saudi monarchy would have been in any way an improvement, but they never really had the influence required to take over and toppling the regime could very well have led to a better outcome.

 

[Verbose]

Lebanon was once a peaceful majority Christian nation until Syria imported Islam into the country and we know how Lebanon is now. The history is there, but if you are not going to pay attention to it, then problems will arise.

Want to historically blame someone for Lebanon being a mess? Blame the French. They were the ones who as colonial overlords harbored romantic dreams of a Christian crusader state in the Mid East to support them, and so arbitrarily lopped bits of the old Ottoman administrative divisions to end up with a someplace with a Christian majority (relatively tenuous), calling it Lebanon. Then demographic trends (birth rates and immigration — besides, the dominant Muslim group is Shiite, and have little to no truck with Salafist crazies, Hezbollah regularly fingering them to authorities) overtook it. The Syrians (their government being Alawit dominated, and arguable not Muslims in the Sunni Salafist play book) really had nothing to do with it — beyond making the argument that the high-handed French meddling once upon a time should be undone...

 

[Masada]

You are seriously fooled if you really think that their goal is just to remove America from Saudi Arabia and then remove the Monarchy.

Well that's how it started. Their goals have grown more expansive as time has gone on.

Go to Philippines, Southern Thailand

Yeah... those were the Muslim's fault. Riiiiiiiiight.

 

[Tahuti]

Many Muslim groups have stated that they see America as the sole nation that supports the "Zionist" regime, whatever that means.

Many Muslims view America as a province of Israel. However, that has nothing to do because of their religion, may I add.