ROTM: Rise Of The Mughals

[Balam]

I agree with Rambuchan and Cabbit--maybe some more techs, a few more civs. Particularly Rajputs, Ceylon, and Golkonda in addition to the ones you already have, although too many and we'll never see that update out, particularly this time of year Gunpowder for Mughals would work; you could actually replace ivory with something else as a lux and then use ivory as strategic resource for elephants. Anyway, I'm in the middle of playing this and having a lot of fun (in between work, of course)...

 

[Rambuchan]

You cheeky devil Balam. tut tut.

 

[Luddi VII]

Here is a picture of the minimap. As you can see, there is alot more civs there than before.

 

[Rambuchan]

Now you're teasing us Luddi. When do you think you will be able to share it with us for play 'ahem' testing?

 

[Luddi VII]

I'm not meaning to tease you, I will only give you and the others who maybe visit this thread a preview of the upcoming scenario. Maybe in early June I will be able to share it with you for play 'ahem' testing. I cannot promise that the civiliopedia will be totally complete then, but after a while it will be.

 

[Rambuchan]

Hi and sorry I haven't responded sooner, real life you know.

Anyway, found this site which is a god -send. The maps are from slightly after the Mughal period but can be relied upon I reckon:

http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~poyntz/India/maps.html

One thing which is tricky with such a scenario is that Islam, Christianity and Hinduism were already present and were existing 'state religions' of the kingdoms in this era. The dynamic between the religions is best seen in the central region where the Persians and Mughals applied great diplomatic pressure and released great favours on Hindu kings taking up Shiism - the kingdoms of Golkonda, Ahmadnagar and Bijapur (from north of the Deccan plateau) all went to Islam. Your tech tree seems to give players that choice but will some be starting with Hindu Monarchy and others with Islamic monarchy?

What are the civs you've got in and what are their UUs?

I could go on but I am at work so will have to keep it brief but do ask specific questions if you have them.

 

[Luddi VII]

Yes, some will start with Hindu Monarchy and others with Islamic Monarchy.

The civs are: Vijayanagar Empire, Golconda, Orissa, Bengal, Gondwana, Berar, Ahmadnagar, Bijapur, Portugal, Gujarat, Malwa, The Rajput Confederacy and the Mughal Empire of course. I think that was all.

It's only the Mughal Empire and Portugal which has UUs. But the others can build almost as strong units as the mughals and the portugese.

This scenario is almost done, and I don't think it's needed so much work to finish it. But I have a question:
Was the Vijayanagars in war with any of the civs in South-India?

 

[Rambuchan]

Interesting Luddi. I like it. You've obviously been reading up!

Which of those civs will be playable? I don't fancy the chances of any of the central kingdoms against the Mughals.

In 1565AD, a temporary alliance saw the armies of Bijapur, Golconda and Ahmadnagar defeat Vijyanagara at Talikor.

Ajmir (Rajput) was also hotly under siege by the Mughals roughly around the time your scenario begins.

The Mughals (under Babur and Humayun, then the matter was settled by Akbar) also saw conflict with Bengal who was led by Sher Khan. This guy was a military whizz-kid and defeated Humayun as he tried to flee back up towards Afghanistan.

EDIT: Corrected my typo with the date.

 

[Luddi VII]

Thanks alot.

Right now I'm thinking to have the Mughal Empire and the Vijayanagar Empire as playable civs. As the Mughals you need to conquer as much as you can of India, and as the vijayanagars you have to win the war against Bijapur, Golconda and Ahmadnagar.

Do you think the mughals can start with being at war with the rajputs and the bengals?

 

[Rambuchan]

My personal preference in scenarios is that you can shape your own game, 'rewriting history' as they say on the Civ marketing material. So my personal vote is to not be at war with anyone. This way one can choose who to go for themselves rather than being thrust down a particular path to progress.

But if you are going for historical accuracy then yes they should start at war with both those the Rajputs and Bengal.

Somemore info - all of the Indian Civs you mentioned were Muslim Sultanates. Only Vijyanagara and the Rajputs were Hindu. They have been labelled "the last bastion of native Hindu culture" by V.S.Naipaul.

 

[Luddi VII]

thanks for your advice, I'll think of it.

And if only the Vijayanagara and the Rajputs were hindu, then I can set Muslim Monarchy on all the others?

 

[Rambuchan]

From your list of civs I think it breaks down as follows:

Hindu Kingdoms: Vijayanagara Empire and Rajputs.

Muslim Sultanates: Golconda, Orissa(?), Bengal, Gondwana, Berar, Ahmadnagar, Bijapur, Gujarat, Malwa, Mughal Empire.

Christian: Portugal.

 

[Luddi VII]

Thanks again.

 

[Rambuchan]

So will you be telling us about the UUs today Luddi?

Perhaps you'll break the news that other civs are playable?

 

[Rambuchan]

Also I found a good chronology of events in the subcontinent for the period of your scenario:

http://www.diehardindian.com/demogrph/historyi.htm

 

[Luddi VII]

Great work! I haven't done anything new on the UUs and civs yet.

 

[Balam]

Whew, finished this scenario (and grading papers, muhahahahaha!). Definitely looking forward to that update. Is it just me, or did the Europeans get settlers--could've sworn they founded a city or so during gameplay? Either way I kept fighting south until I got to them, eliminated them, then eliminated everyone else in the south and east, and saved the Persians for last. I actually thought the Persians and southern Indians (forgot their name) would have been tougher--as it is right now, the Europeans are toughest because of their muskets. I was playing on Regent and Persia folded within 3 turns (I had two armies attacking them at the same time), the Europeans in 4, the easterners in 5, and the southerners in something like 10-15 once I got to each. I imagine it would be harder on Monarch or Emp, but I always play a scenario on Regent the first time (never know what is coming at you).

I still think it needs more civs, and I'm glad to see the screenies. Must play more, need that update

 

[Rambuchan]

Hello Balam. Haha! I love it, you are such a scenario addict, just like me ! (Can only just remember the last epic game I played.)

I know Luddi should be telling you this but I'm told it's okay to let a little cat out of the bag. So let me please say: The update will be bigger, bolder and better than expected!!!

Here's what's happening. I fiddled about a bit in the editor, a bit too much actually. It happens to be the period of history I probably know more about than any other and have read endlessly on. I ended up with my own version of Rise of the Mughals. Anway, I made contact with Luddi and we are sticking the two versions together!

So you can expect some of this and lots more:

16 Civs, all playable and with their own UUs:

- 6 Indian Civs
Golkonda, Vijayanagara, Rajput, Bijapur, Ahmadnagar & Bengal. You might find some more but it gets a bit squashed!
- 2 Persian Civs
Mughals & Safavid Persians
- 4 European trading civs
East India Co. (English), V.O.C.(Dutch EIC), Vasco's Traders (Portuguese) and Compagnie des Indes (French).
- 3 backward local civs
Nepal, Burma and Ceylon.
- And 1 wildcard civ
The Andaman Pirates! Arr!

Some auto-producing wonders/improvements churning out things like Fakirs (Holymen) with invisible attack and Kerala Martial Artists which are super fast and hit hard but are weak in defence. More of these auto-producers are in there.

Resources of course include Elephants! For producing, yes, lots of Elephant units - which you'll need to take certain parts of India due to their jungle movement bonus. Cavalry just won't do it the same way. Lots of different cavalry and firearms units. Plenty of naval piracy. And the English with a 'Maxim Gun' UU which is one short of double the best defence around at the time.

Luxuries include things like cotton, opium and well incense and gems.

Wonders include things like 'Religious Tolerance', 'Deccan Tax', 'The Grand Hareem' and 'Lingum Worship' replaces The Pyramids. [lingum = phallus or penis]

It will have many victory conditions including conquest, domination, city elimination and victory points.

And I'm waiting to see the next bit of magic - Luddi's tech tree!

Basically the whole play of the scenario is pretty much worked out. We are now tweaking it here and there and adding the art and pedia text.

I can't say anymore or I'll be done by Luddi!! But here are some pictures to get you in the mood.

 

[Luddi VII]

You have made a nice description of the mod.

 

[LouLong]

hi guys !

since you might not need the Western part of my map, why don't you crop it with MapTweaker ?

New version starts to look good !

Two remarks about the tech-tree though.
1/ If someone can it would be better to use a personalized tech-tree, now it looks weird (you could have straight lines !)
2/ in my experience it is better to have mixing of the different lines otherwise you can just research in one branch till the end very quickly which will have strange results (very advanced units vs obsolete ones).
Just my 2 cents though...