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RR12 - A perfect spy

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Succession Games' started by r_rolo1, Apr 17, 2011.

  1. Brian Shanahan

    Brian Shanahan Permanoob

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    Yeah I meant other East not East. Sorry bout that.
     
  2. r_rolo1

    r_rolo1 King of myself

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    Ok, time to get it :p

    I'll give it a look tomorrow with a fresh mind. I've been reviewing some papers up to half a hour ago :(
     
  3. Brian Shanahan

    Brian Shanahan Permanoob

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    Studying is for losers, playing games is for winners.
     
  4. Ichabod

    Ichabod Gaucho

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    Brian_Shanahan asked me to post this in his profile and current SGs.

    He wants you all to know that he won't be coming back to post in this site. If anyone is interested in knowing the reason, feel free to contact him.

    That being said, he also wants to inform you that he is resigning his spots in all the Sucession Games that he's currently playing.

    Regards,

    Ichabod
     
  5. r_rolo1

    r_rolo1 King of myself

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    Too bad ... Brian must have his reasons.

    Ok, I take this chance to apologize for the fact i haven't posted anything in the weekend. I had 2 very stressful months in terms of work ( I basically had no weekends since early March ) and this weekend I basically took the foot out of the gas pedal. So, basically I haven't done anything from Friday to Monday morning, including playing civ ;)

    Ok, so it is time to drop a plan to play the worse tomorrow.

    Tech wise I don't see any reason for not going CS at this moment. Unless we want Lit for the GL ...

    In terms of new settling I would prefer to settle against Mansa, since it is clear he is the more acessibble to attack of the AI players. But we simply have no spot to put another city to attack mansa due to the settling by Monty of the dyes spot. Anyway i think we can definitely afford atleast one more city, so I think that we should settle against the Koreans. The issue is where ... going to next to Seoul would help us put some pressure to the Koran cap, but I think that we would gain more settling near that gold/FP in our east ... maybe 1E of the gold ? Anyway we still have to make the settler, so I would not be surprised if we will not settle before the next set ( 4/5 turns to make it + the time to move it to place )

    We also need to discuss how we are going to fuel our research ... we are not hiring specs, but also not working cottages. We need to discuss what the the plan from now on. I would favour cottages, mainly because we don't want to pollute our GPP pool with scientists :p , but I'm open to counter arguments.

    In city build terms, I think we could make more courthouses, but we have some libs and granaries to make as well. We can get some wonders, but, besides the Mids that should be almost done somewhere, i don't see much of case of even trying one of the list we can get now ( Mids, HG ( needs aqueduct ), Chichen, SoZ and Paya ). And besides that we need more workers :p and most likely some archers, so we have more to do than wondrous things.

    So, all in all, most likely a boring set. But anyway we need to decide if we want to run a SE or a CE ( yeah I know, misleading and never defined terms, but only used to shorten the sentence ), even if because we might want to try mids if we want specs.

    Will try to play after hearing some comments. if no one does I'll play tomorrow.
     
  6. nocho

    nocho Chieftain

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    Yes to cottages! That way using the spy slider at some point will make more sense too.

    I'm okay with CS first, but wouldn't discard a run to Music afterwards.

    1E of gold makes most sense in terms of city placement regarding flipping (also Tarsus), though unfortunately it's on the FP. But well, that's the sacrifice we'll have to make. Good thing about going CS now is that at least we'll be able to farm those grassland tiles to its south.
     
  7. LKendter

    LKendter Chieftain

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    CE IMHO is a must. At some point we need the money to spend on EP.

    I did try and start getting some cottages going on my turn, but we need to get more happiness to use them. That is the one reason furs and silver in the south look good. Hopefully our scout finds some good seafood down there. My turn was very empty on the oceans...
     
  8. r_rolo1

    r_rolo1 King of myself

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    So we are debating if we settle the :) in the ice or the FP spot ? ....

    Well, we really need the :) , but the fact is that we don't have much more time to settle in a spot that aloows to block Wang. So IMHO it is better to block the Korens and then settle the ice for the goodies ...
     
  9. nocho

    nocho Chieftain

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    Definitely block first, backfill for happy later, imo!
     
  10. LKendter

    LKendter Chieftain

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    I think silver should hold a round. I agree with the cow - deer area first. Without a map, can't say exact spot

    EDIT - we also have wines heading toward Korea. That will also help with happy.
     
  11. Thy_Spellcraft

    Thy_Spellcraft Chieftain

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    I also vote for CE. It's a way stronger in the the game and as we won't finish this game in the middle ages this seems the way to go.
    On settling I too would rather go for the blocking site. As long as we won't loose being first to music I agree on CS as well!

    BTW: I'll be out of town until next Monday, so I'd ask for a skip this time!
     
  12. r_rolo1

    r_rolo1 King of myself

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    Ok, pretty boring set ... only 2 pics worth :(

    Basically we are in cruise control. Settled one city:
    Spoiler :

    This one needs to be connected to our main trade route system, but as soon as linked will conect us to both the Korans and Persians.

    I did a little more of exploring:
    Spoiler :

    Another place to settle in the future.

    Besides that things were pretty much unchanged from LK set.

    As Thy asked for a skip and Brian is not around ( I received express orders from the mods to not talk in public about brian reasons to quit CFC since it involves mod actions, so if someone is interested, PM me ) , lymond is UP. Thar is on deck.

     
  13. lymond

    lymond Rise Up! Hall of Fame Staff

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    Got it ....I will review tonight
     
  14. Thrar

    Thrar Chieftain

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    After CS, my favorite would still be Monarchy for the :). Music won't fall any time soon; WK doesn't even have Poly and we can see what MM is researching. Sure the GA is useful, but it's about 25 turns away at current research speed, while Monarchy is just 8. We can slot that in and it will still be early enough for Music I expect.

    Regarding next city, the marble/wine/deer from my earlier SS is still my favorite to start backfilling. Alternatively, we could settle somewhere SE of Adulis to completely block Persia. The grassland next to the cow is the best spot for pushing culture, although the tundra hill south of it would be better food-wise, having two more grasslands.

    That blocker is poor food-wise, and most southern settlements would be even more so. I wouldn't settle in the south yet, Monarchy and that wine will be good enough for happiness for now.
     
  15. LKendter

    LKendter Chieftain

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    We should have silks and banana soon. Where do we want to put calendar in the tech queue? Banana will give Debre the food source it needs.

    I think we want another city soon - either double crab furs or silver whales. I want to start growing our cities up to allow for more cottages.
     
  16. lymond

    lymond Rise Up! Hall of Fame Staff

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    Okay, a bit of a plan:

    I'm a little torn on where to settle. The spots to the south are mediocre to bad. The 2clam/horse site will be somewhat productive though. Other than resources - one of which will not be available for a while - silver/whale does nothing for us.

    My thinking here is that we need to get out a couple of settlers and be ready to commando settle in the AIs faces once are culture pushes them back. For instance, once Lali pushes Wang back we can plop a city down 3 spots to the East - in the vicinity. I think this may be the way to play it. EPs and spies are only going to do so much for you when you are so many rings away from their cities. The city near Mansa has the only reasonable shot at doing something, but will take time.

    I'd like to build SoZ in Lali simply for the tremendous culture it provides. We have a bonus on the wonder and can chop it out with a chop or 2 quickly. The market in Lali is a waste, although it may just be a placeholder. Monastery in Gondor seems unneeded too.

    I'd still like to settle up the site I marked earlier as A, which would grab marble/copper and share pigs. However, it is safe so no hurry there. The spots near Persia are pretty lame but we could plop a city close to the cows.

    We are in woeful need of workers and that will be a top priority. I will whip or chop out 3 or 4 workers pronto.

    As for tech, I'm really surprised no one has Monarchy yet. I really think we should go ahead and get Monarchy now as the happiness would be nice indeed. Drama would not be a bad tech either. I know it was mentioned that culture was not the focus, but honestly you need some culture to put us in a position to push these guys back and settle in their faces.

    So, I think before I play, we need to discuss future settling sites. I can get out a couple of settlers or 3 this turnset.

    Also, I guess we should start popping out some spies.

    As for cottages, Aksum and Debre can work several - and share them so that Aksum eventually becomes a great bureau cap. Addis could take some cottages, but it will need some chain farming, especially when it takes on that rice, so I don't so it as a cottage city.

    Monty is in fist mode. Looks like he will attack Mansa, but we need to be wary and build more units in case we need to defend.

    So, quick down and dirty:

    1) Build more workers - like 4 or 5
    2) Build 2 or 3 settlers - not necessarily settle - need to discuss sites
    3) Build SoZ in Lali (Lali should already have a stele)
    4) Start cottages near Aksum and Debre
    5) Build more units
    6) Tech Monarchy>CS ...look for trade ops
     
  17. Thrar

    Thrar Chieftain

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    Do you want to switch to researching Monarchy immediately? I don't think CS is that urgent right now, but since we already researched half of it, it's not far away any more. Either way is fine with me I guess.

    SoZ in Lali is an interesting idea. However, I'd prefer building it in AA as Lali only needs to gain one more ring before we can settle another city and push further. That desert tile is already 35% ours. Lali is too far away from Seoul to have an impact there. AA, on the other hand, can directly culture-attack Teotihuacan (at 500) and needs a strong culture output against Tenochtitlan as well.

    I don't quite understand why you want to share the pigs with a new city when there's an excellent spot not far away (the marble/deer/wine). Sure, that way we could use the deer and wine to fuel another city, but what for? There is no decent terrain around (not even resources), so I'd rather have one good long-term city than two mediocre ones.
    If we want to settle somewhere near the cow in the east to block Persia we should do it soon, IMO that should be priority for the next city.

    We can trade for Calendar at some point, but I think we should research the prereqs ourselves to avoid WFYABTA. Maybe after CS and Monarchy but before going for Music, unless we see someone else heading down that path?
     
  18. r_rolo1

    r_rolo1 King of myself

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    The best spot to settle now in terms of productivity is really the 2 clam one. We need fishing for it though :p Well as we need calendar soon enough, it would not be bad to go there.

    SoZ is a power move indeed and should be done ASAP. I skipped it because we still had a lot to do ( we still need more archers for garrison for example ). Maybe AA is a better play overall, but I think we are more well positioned to push against Mansa. Not sure on this one.

    Besides that I'm with Lymond plan ... except in tech terms. I think we should divert a little and grab fishing before anything else and then trade up to Calendar if possible, regardless of what tech we pursue ( I gone CS because mainly of the irrigation. Most of our cities need badly of it ... but I can see the case for Monarchy, in spite of being a tech that the AI will surely tech in their track to Feudalism )
     
  19. nocho

    nocho Chieftain

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    In general agree with the plan. Personally I don't see monarchy as extremely urgent. I think we can trade for it in a not very distant future. Besides, if you're busy with a lot of workers and settlers there's less risk of going over the happy cap. ;) And we'd need a whole bunch of units now for it to be immediately effective.

    I'm not overly excited by the double crab site, though it's not bad obviously. But maybe I'd rather pick up the happies. Maybe fur-iron-crab. Maybe 1SE of the eastern wine is an idea to pick that up and have a half decent city with deer/cow and some hills.

    I'd also feel slightly safer if we move some units to AA. Curious Monty hasn't declared yet.

    Silly micro suggestion, switch Lali to a worker, drop 1 tile for a turn in favour of a specialist and 2-pop whip the worker next turn with max overflow into SoZ. You get one of your workers quickly, get rid of an unhappy face and a head start on SoZ.
     
  20. lymond

    lymond Rise Up! Hall of Fame Staff

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    Yeah, I would whip some workers out for max OF. I guess the question begs whether to go SoZ in Lali or AA.

    We can trade Med to Monty for Fishing and gold. Despite him being WE of many, I doubt we would get a hit from this trade after knowing the AIs this long - and several of these guys are more amicable types. We would then need sailing for Calendar. I agree that Monarchy can be traded for later - I was just surprised that no one had it. Maybe it is best to just finish up CS and backfill the other techs we can easily trade for. Calendar may be an option after CS comes in as I'm sure we will have Sailing by then. We can hold off our next Civic switch for a double HR/Bureau switcherooski

    I would like that marble hooked up and still very much like the original city A I had mapped out. Plenty of food for that city and Lali once CS is in - even sharing the pigs as needed. However, I've mapped out some potential cities in the screenshots below. I like Nocho's plan for the next city next to the wine. It's not great, but the culture should eventually allow us to commando settle another city closer to Persia. There are some gaps in the land in that area, but most of the land is crap and will be covered over in culture anyway.

    Spoiler :


    Spoiler :


    Nocho - The reason I don't like iron/fur/crab is that I think 2crab/horse makes a better city in the long run and the spot B I designated makes better use of the land around there. All those hills can be windmilled later. We'd have a better spot here if we didn't settle Gondor so poorly, but B will be fine.


    So, Soz - AA or Lali? Either one works well IMO. Lali might get it up faster, but we can chop it in AA.

    Gondor should go primarily to unit production for a while. We need to up the power.
     

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