RR13 - Hearts and Minds
- Thread starter r_rolo1
- Start date
Thy_Spellcraft
King
It's reporting time:
IT:
The usual MM at the beginning..
And as I already mentioned I closed borders with Zara to prevent his strack to reach the barb city:
And we succeeded: His stack won't reach the city anymore!
620:
Tao founded by Pacal..
640:
Sold some resources:
660:
It's time for hard desicions:
After quite some minutes I decided to refuse it, as we won't gain anything from accepting than a pissed off SB. In case he's already preparing for us this would not have stoped him nor did this change his opinion in case he's preparing for SB.
700:
Both Sistine + Moai finished. I'm sorry but both pics got lost..
720:
Finally we finished CS and as tao already fell I went on with paper as the alternative to philo. And of cause I changed to Bureau!
Furthermore this deal came up, which I naturally took:
740:
The Parthenon got finished.. But thy to the
: I missed SB's stack headding towards the barb city.. 
So this happened:
I'm deeply sorry..
780:
Finished the set because of this purposed deal:
I'm tempted to take it, as we could make a good use of the money in the run towards Lib.. But this should be decided by the team!
IT:
The usual MM at the beginning..
And as I already mentioned I closed borders with Zara to prevent his strack to reach the barb city:
Spoiler :
620:
Tao founded by Pacal..
640:
Sold some resources:
Spoiler :
660:
It's time for hard desicions:
Spoiler :
After quite some minutes I decided to refuse it, as we won't gain anything from accepting than a pissed off SB. In case he's already preparing for us this would not have stoped him nor did this change his opinion in case he's preparing for SB.
700:
Both Sistine + Moai finished. I'm sorry but both pics got lost..
720:
Finally we finished CS and as tao already fell I went on with paper as the alternative to philo. And of cause I changed to Bureau!
Furthermore this deal came up, which I naturally took:
Spoiler :
740:
The Parthenon got finished.. But thy to the
: I missed SB's stack headding towards the barb city.. So this happened:Spoiler :
I'm deeply sorry..
780:
Finished the set because of this purposed deal:
Spoiler :
I'm tempted to take it, as we could make a good use of the money in the run towards Lib.. But this should be decided by the team!
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A few things stand out --
1) SB took the barb city.
2) We need to agree on the plans for Varanasi. This city is already very food heavy. We are building farms?
3) Calcutta got screwed and LOST the pigs. After the court we need to go culture happy. This city can't afford to lose its only food source.
4) While I'm not a big fan of SoZ, I hope it can get those cows under Vijay control. While I understand why the farms were built short-term, long-term farms suck for our WS city. We need get the food under our control.
5) I'm not sure what the spy being built is for. We aren't generating a lot of EP yet, and don't have the military to risk a war.
1) SB took the barb city.
2) We need to agree on the plans for Varanasi. This city is already very food heavy. We are building farms?
3) Calcutta got screwed and LOST the pigs. After the court we need to go culture happy. This city can't afford to lose its only food source.
4) While I'm not a big fan of SoZ, I hope it can get those cows under Vijay control. While I understand why the farms were built short-term, long-term farms suck for our WS city. We need get the food under our control.
5) I'm not sure what the spy being built is for. We aren't generating a lot of EP yet, and don't have the military to risk a war.
Thy_Spellcraft
King
Finished the report!
1) Yepp he did.
2) I thought this would become our NE city.. In case I missed something I'm sorry!
3) Tried to keep it with the Lib-whip but it came too late it seems.. But we'll get it back soon!
4) We need to grow right now.. After we got the food I agree on changing tiles!
5) There's no hammer invested yet.. But we've got abou 4000
on SB and the last time we decided too late to start with missions.. And as long as he's at war with brennus and soon will be with shaka as well he won't declare on us!
A few things stand out --
1) SB took the barb city.
2) We need to agree on the plans for Varanasi. This city is already very food heavy. We are building farms?
3) Calcutta got screwed and LOST the pigs. After the court we need to go culture happy. This city can't afford to lose its only food source.
4) While I'm not a big fan of SoZ, I hope it can get those cows under Vijay control. While I understand why the farms were built short-term, long-term farms suck for our WS city. We need get the food under our control.
5) I'm not sure what the spy being built is for. We aren't generating a lot of EP yet, and don't have the military to risk a war.
1) Yepp he did.
2) I thought this would become our NE city.. In case I missed something I'm sorry!
3) Tried to keep it with the Lib-whip but it came too late it seems.. But we'll get it back soon!
4) We need to grow right now.. After we got the food I agree on changing tiles!
5) There's no hammer invested yet.. But we've got abou 4000
on SB and the last time we decided too late to start with missions.. And as long as he's at war with brennus and soon will be with shaka as well he won't declare on us!
I rather have SB take the barb city than Zara...
Anyway, I think I'm up so got it. Friday afternoon I'll leave for a week of holidays, so I'd like to play within 24 hours.
First, I've been staring at the map and by LK's gospel I think we could squeeze in some more cities to make optimal use of our lands.
I'm thinking C01a or C01b for more cottages. Could initially borrow a food resource to get going. It'd also put pressure on Polynesian, especially C01a. This option is also better for Zara's city to the north, so I would prefer this one. C02 is marginal by itself, but I think it's a key city to start to work on Shaka at some point, so we better get it up and running soon. It might go 2NE, though that could be asking for trouble.
Then I'm thinking when eventually Polynesian flips, we could raze it to have two other cities in place. P01 and then a city on any of the 5 tiles if you draw a line from P02a through P02b to P02c. That'd be later though.
Oh WAIT! I just realized we can already settle 3N of the cap for a 3rd city right away! Ain't too bad either. Then later P01 and P02c after razing Polynesian.
So plan is to get at least 2 (3) settlers out for C01a and C02 (if you agree of course) and send some confu missinaries with them.
I indeed would build NE asap in Varanasi. As the GP pool in Delhi is polluted anyway, I'm inclined to hire one or even two scientists here (after growth next turn) to speed up this great person. A GSpy would build a SY in Varanasi (or Vijay?), a GS could be used to speed up education. You guys seemed to think academies weren't needed, but an edu bulb is always okay I presume.
Tech, paper-edu. Possibly self-tech philo next for the lib-run?
I think we can safely do the aesth/cash deal.
Some border cities (Calcutta for instance) can use theatres. Some more military won't hurt either.
We might want to think of the FP, especially if we settle more cities now. Varanasi maybe after the NE?
Anyway, I think I'm up so got it. Friday afternoon I'll leave for a week of holidays, so I'd like to play within 24 hours.
First, I've been staring at the map and by LK's gospel I think we could squeeze in some more cities to make optimal use of our lands.
I'm thinking C01a or C01b for more cottages. Could initially borrow a food resource to get going. It'd also put pressure on Polynesian, especially C01a. This option is also better for Zara's city to the north, so I would prefer this one. C02 is marginal by itself, but I think it's a key city to start to work on Shaka at some point, so we better get it up and running soon. It might go 2NE, though that could be asking for trouble.
Then I'm thinking when eventually Polynesian flips, we could raze it to have two other cities in place. P01 and then a city on any of the 5 tiles if you draw a line from P02a through P02b to P02c. That'd be later though.
Oh WAIT! I just realized we can already settle 3N of the cap for a 3rd city right away! Ain't too bad either. Then later P01 and P02c after razing Polynesian.
So plan is to get at least 2 (3) settlers out for C01a and C02 (if you agree of course) and send some confu missinaries with them.
I indeed would build NE asap in Varanasi. As the GP pool in Delhi is polluted anyway, I'm inclined to hire one or even two scientists here (after growth next turn) to speed up this great person. A GSpy would build a SY in Varanasi (or Vijay?), a GS could be used to speed up education. You guys seemed to think academies weren't needed, but an edu bulb is always okay I presume.
Tech, paper-edu. Possibly self-tech philo next for the lib-run?
I think we can safely do the aesth/cash deal.
Some border cities (Calcutta for instance) can use theatres. Some more military won't hurt either.
We might want to think of the FP, especially if we settle more cities now. Varanasi maybe after the NE?
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We had talked about it, or GT. Did we actually come to an agreement? I thought that was still up in the air. Are there any comments from the team?
If it is NE, then we should add a sign to that city.
IMO the key for the extra cities is do that claim new tiles? I'll try and propose a few. What we don't want to do is choke our good cities.
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These are the cities I see in the north
"A" is the new location for the barb city.
"B" is the flip point city I want. Please mark this on the map.
"C" is the type of location I'm talking about. Varan as a NE city can afford to lose the cows. "C" can be marked as spies. That would be it's only duty except for EP building start with courthouse.
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"A" is the new location for the barb city.
"B" is the flip point city I want. Please mark this on the map.
"C" is the type of location I'm talking about. Varan as a NE city can afford to lose the cows. "C" can be marked as spies. That would be it's only duty except for EP building start with courthouse.
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"D" is the flip city for SB capitol, and Mesa. I want it settled as soon as we hit 50%.
"E" is questionable. It would be a courthouse, then spies the rest of the game. I don't think it would ever be strong enough to even build the more expensive EP buildings.
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"E" is questionable. It would be a courthouse, then spies the rest of the game. I don't think it would ever be strong enough to even build the more expensive EP buildings.
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I think C is stronger 1W (what I marked as C01a) if only as it's better positioned regarding flips (north and south).
I think your B is long ways off still and I doubt if we can even settle there. By the shape of Zara's borders there may be a city 2E1N.
I don't see the big idea behind A tbh, especially comparing it to Polynesian itself. If it goes 1S we can settle my P01, if it goes 2S yet another city (my P02c).
D looks great, once we get hold of that tile.
E, yuk.
I think for now settlers are better spent elsewhere.
Any input on what I marked as C02? IMO we need it to start on Shaka some day.
I think your B is long ways off still and I doubt if we can even settle there. By the shape of Zara's borders there may be a city 2E1N.
I don't see the big idea behind A tbh, especially comparing it to Polynesian itself. If it goes 1S we can settle my P01, if it goes 2S yet another city (my P02c).
D looks great, once we get hold of that tile.
E, yuk.
I think for now settlers are better spent elsewhere.Any input on what I marked as C02? IMO we need it to start on Shaka some day.
r_rolo1
King of myself
Your C02 is not bad and we definitely a city in that area... and as you say , LK B IIRC is illegal
The city north of the ex barb city would IMHO be roughly equal regardless of going either option... one has more overlap, the other more tile grabbing. Hard to say what is better.
D is ok, but how close are we of getting control of that tile ?
I'm not exactly convinced on razing the ex-barb city and resettling it ... just becasue of the lost time. OFC that A is far better
E is utter crap.... typical last resort location and only after Bio and food corps will do anything useful IMHO
The city north of the ex barb city would IMHO be roughly equal regardless of going either option... one has more overlap, the other more tile grabbing. Hard to say what is better.
D is ok, but how close are we of getting control of that tile ?
I'm not exactly convinced on razing the ex-barb city and resettling it ... just becasue of the lost time. OFC that A is far better
E is utter crap.... typical last resort location and only after Bio and food corps will do anything useful IMHO
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I prefer my "A" a mile over the "P02" variants. My "A" recovers the row 3 north of Delhi with forest grassland and wine (nice income).
"B" is the future flip city. We can't build right now, but I would like it marked. If "B" and 1 south of "B" are illegal, we need to adjust now. Can we send a Confuse missionary into Zara and check that area? If so, 1 NW of stone if a must city now if we ever to flip Shaka long-term. That mountain range really screws us up.
To answer "C" vs. "C01" / "C02" (my 1 NW stone is same), we need to know make a call about "B". I will switch to "C01 / C02" if we concede "B" is impossible. I can't tell at this point.
We *already* have culture into Chaco Canyon. SoZ will increase that. "P01" doesn't help culture push.
Replacing the barb city with a city 1 south works better with any variant of "C" placement.
"D" is 47% Indian IIRC and Bombay puts our more culture that SB does.
I've seen one clear vote for NE in Varan - Nocho. Thy_Spellcraft seems in favor. If R_Rolo confirms agreement, then I 100% veto "P01" as I don't want to steal more food from Varan. We already need to steal the cows to make "C" or "C01A/B" work.
I don't want to play next turn until we have agreement on cities.
IMO we want to settle at least one during the next turn set.
"B" is the future flip city. We can't build right now, but I would like it marked. If "B" and 1 south of "B" are illegal, we need to adjust now. Can we send a Confuse missionary into Zara and check that area? If so, 1 NW of stone if a must city now if we ever to flip Shaka long-term. That mountain range really screws us up.
To answer "C" vs. "C01" / "C02" (my 1 NW stone is same), we need to know make a call about "B". I will switch to "C01 / C02" if we concede "B" is impossible. I can't tell at this point.
We *already* have culture into Chaco Canyon. SoZ will increase that. "P01" doesn't help culture push.
Replacing the barb city with a city 1 south works better with any variant of "C" placement.
"D" is 47% Indian IIRC and Bombay puts our more culture that SB does.
I've seen one clear vote for NE in Varan - Nocho. Thy_Spellcraft seems in favor. If R_Rolo confirms agreement, then I 100% veto "P01" as I don't want to steal more food from Varan. We already need to steal the cows to make "C" or "C01A/B" work.
I don't want to play next turn until we have agreement on cities.
IMO we want to settle at least one during the next turn set.
Thy_Spellcraft
King
About settling:
C02 --
I totally agree that we'll need it to push towards Shaka!
C01a/b -- I don't think we'll really need it against Zara's city to the north as it's 4. ring but against SB it seems to be a good idea so I'd vote for C01a.
barb city -- I too would raze it and resettle it 1S (in case we argee on not settling P01) or inbetween P02b and c to gt all three wines into BFC. The plainhill of P02a I'd rather use for some more production of the resettled barb-city.
P1 -- I agree to LK about the food.. and in case we keep Chaco the city would stay even less than crap.. So
for settling P01.
D -- No brainer..
E -- In case we've got too many settlersand won't keep them hanging around..
Techwise going for paper Edu seems ok for me. And I'm pretty sure we'll have to self-tech philo as noone else will go for it in time. Maybe we should go for it directly after paper so we could use the scientist for the edu bulb...
C02 --
I totally agree that we'll need it to push towards Shaka!C01a/b -- I don't think we'll really need it against Zara's city to the north as it's 4. ring but against SB it seems to be a good idea so I'd vote for C01a.
barb city -- I too would raze it and resettle it 1S (in case we argee on not settling P01) or inbetween P02b and c to gt all three wines into BFC. The plainhill of P02a I'd rather use for some more production of the resettled barb-city.
P1 -- I agree to LK about the food.. and in case we keep Chaco the city would stay even less than crap.. So
for settling P01.D -- No brainer..
E -- In case we've got too many settlersand won't keep them hanging around..
Techwise going for paper Edu seems ok for me. And I'm pretty sure we'll have to self-tech philo as noone else will go for it in time. Maybe we should go for it directly after paper so we could use the scientist for the edu bulb...
I didn't mean to steal food from Vara with P01, just to get some farms up and have a small extra spy town that could potentially contribute a bit to pushing SB's city. The whole setup with P01, P02 and the unmarked P03 (3N of Delhi) was to cater to LK's idea of many small cities, ICS-style. I think that's not a bad idea, but I'm fine with having one city at A instead of 3 if that's what you all prefer.
C02 seems to get the nod, so I'll go for it. Will check the mystery Zara-city and the feasibility of B first (though obviously C02 and B are not mutually exclusive).
Probably go for C01a as well, with C02 where it is we don't get extra tiles from C01b vs C01a and then C01a is better positioned. I'll probably cut those forests from underneath it before settling on it.
If/when D becomes available I'll try to get a settler for that one as well.
I'll build the NE in Varanasi, unless it'll be voted away within the next 10 hours. The only alternative for NE would be Delhi itself, but it's not ideal (not great food and wants to work its tiles).
Philo vs edu: do we dare to go pacifism/confu? If so, I might go for philo next, otherwise I'd take edu. As a GS will only bulb half of it, don't worry about overbulbing it if we get one in the 1st place.
C02 seems to get the nod, so I'll go for it. Will check the mystery Zara-city and the feasibility of B first (though obviously C02 and B are not mutually exclusive).
Probably go for C01a as well, with C02 where it is we don't get extra tiles from C01b vs C01a and then C01a is better positioned. I'll probably cut those forests from underneath it before settling on it.
If/when D becomes available I'll try to get a settler for that one as well.
I'll build the NE in Varanasi, unless it'll be voted away within the next 10 hours.
The only alternative for NE would be Delhi itself, but it's not ideal (not great food and wants to work its tiles).Philo vs edu: do we dare to go pacifism/confu? If so, I might go for philo next, otherwise I'd take edu. As a GS will only bulb half of it, don't worry about overbulbing it if we get one in the 1st place.
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Agree - that site seems liked by many. I would label the city "spy".
As long as we take cows from Varan we should be able to get it up and running soon. Production looks challenged long-term, so even though it may build a bit of culture I would label it "spy".
Please label Varan "GP".
I like these labels so that the team is in clear agreement on the cities goals. We had some odd building the last game.
Agree
UGG+
With the way the religions fell this game the only practical choice is Judaism. And that is only after we have enough military to keep Brennus away. He has taken as least two cities from SB already.
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WAIT - "D" is also to eventually touch Mesa.
Agree with waiting, especially as Moai will help out a bit in 2 turns from now. I even already farmed the grass the settler is standing on right now in anticipation of settling D.
r_rolo1
King of myself
Ok, looks decent ( must see save ... )
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Okay...got it.
Basically, there's a couple of concerns I have here. Everything is looking good in general and Nocho did a great job with his turnset. Overall though, i dont' think we are being aggressive enough and falling into the same trap as last game. I think we have to ask ourselves, with all the EPs we have in SB, why are we not using them. Heck, if SB goes down to Brennus, all those EPs will be wasted. I think they will probably make peace before that, but still we need to start expanding our borders and honestly, Mound city should be ours as well as that barb city. Despite my strong recommendation we still don't have the next border pop in Patel and therefore not bleeding culture into Poly. If we had don that sooner, I guarantee you SB would have ceded that city to us.
I think we need to start creating spies and put those EP to work.
I assume the goal is to Lib either Constitution or Demo. Obviously, getting to Demo would be ideal. One way we might do this is to run Caste for a short bit, trade for Theo, and try to pop a Great Artist in Varan to bulb Nationalism. If we get lucky, in 4 turns when Edu comes in, we can bulb Nat, tech Lib to 1t, finish Constitution and Lib Demo. Worth a shot I think.
Otherwise, I will finish current builds in cities and start on spies. I will also work to get that border pop in Patal so we can start working on that barb city. I will try to accelerate tech as much as possible. Oh...and more units.
Basically, there's a couple of concerns I have here. Everything is looking good in general and Nocho did a great job with his turnset. Overall though, i dont' think we are being aggressive enough and falling into the same trap as last game. I think we have to ask ourselves, with all the EPs we have in SB, why are we not using them. Heck, if SB goes down to Brennus, all those EPs will be wasted. I think they will probably make peace before that, but still we need to start expanding our borders and honestly, Mound city should be ours as well as that barb city. Despite my strong recommendation we still don't have the next border pop in Patel and therefore not bleeding culture into Poly. If we had don that sooner, I guarantee you SB would have ceded that city to us.
I think we need to start creating spies and put those EP to work.
I assume the goal is to Lib either Constitution or Demo. Obviously, getting to Demo would be ideal. One way we might do this is to run Caste for a short bit, trade for Theo, and try to pop a Great Artist in Varan to bulb Nationalism. If we get lucky, in 4 turns when Edu comes in, we can bulb Nat, tech Lib to 1t, finish Constitution and Lib Demo. Worth a shot I think.
Otherwise, I will finish current builds in cities and start on spies. I will also work to get that border pop in Patal so we can start working on that barb city. I will try to accelerate tech as much as possible. Oh...and more units.
