r_rolo1
King of myself
IIRC , no we haven't made NE, but we are not in danger of seeing it go to other civ 
RR13 - Hearts and Minds
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well, again, I will state my opposition to settling 1NW of the settler's current position.
I agree with LK that the TGL is not a prioirity. Parth would be nice though to boost up Gspies or whatever. MoM would be nice as well and has great culture output in a border city. We're bound to miss out on 1 of those, at least, but the fail gold would not hurt either.
I agree with LK that the TGL is not a prioirity. Parth would be nice though to boost up Gspies or whatever. MoM would be nice as well and has great culture output in a border city. We're bound to miss out on 1 of those, at least, but the fail gold would not hurt either.
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I wouldn't mind MoM - extra long GA help with production.
I'd be seriously tempted to start our first GA with the artist from music. Speeding up Sistine and more workers sounds really nice.
I'm really stumped for the city - that is why I stopped there. I'm tempted by one north to put in on the water, but not sure how good it is. Trouble is to much desert in the area.
I'd be seriously tempted to start our first GA with the artist from music. Speeding up Sistine and more workers sounds really nice.
I'm really stumped for the city - that is why I stopped there. I'm tempted by one north to put in on the water, but not sure how good it is. Trouble is to much desert in the area.
r_rolo1
King of myself
MoM is the one that we can most likely lose, since SB is making it as well ( 34 turns ). Not a biggie, but as lymond said, this is not a certain Japanese cartoon where we have to catch them all Parth is probably a bigger priority that MoM anyway
GA with the GA from music ? It is probably a good idea ... and we don't have to care about getting those for civic changes
The rice city will always be crappy, no matter where we put it. It will be surely one of those cities only good to have the EP buildings ... but we have to close that area to SB.
Parth is probably a bigger priority that MoM anywayGA with the GA from music ? It is probably a good idea ... and we don't have to care about getting those for civic changes
The rice city will always be crappy, no matter where we put it. It will be surely one of those cities only good to have the EP buildings ... but we have to close that area to SB.
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Very true - it will be one of those minimal buildings and permanent spy duty city later on. We certainly need those. "X" and Moai will both be those to.
r_rolo1
King of myself
I started the set by settling the rice site 1 NW of the the preious spot:
Later this proved to be a bad decision:
Zara was moving to the area ... and it was also a bad decision because there was a phant west of what was to be the rice city BFC that we didn't knew about at the time .
Anyway, we got music ... queued drama and CS after.
And burned the GA into a GA
BTW you can notice more stuff in there:
-Mound city is surrounded by our culture. Later in the set it would start showing revolt risk ( for a short while, unfortunately )
- As I predicted, Brennus was to attack SB. The war has gone nowhere during my set, but it putted SB in pure unit build mode.
Anyway, Zara settled against us:
Maybe lymond was right after all :/
The RNG gods smiled upon us and we were granted with a GP:
And settled city X
I made a lot of infra around and a major set of workers. I reckon that I have not made the best GPP arrangements in the cap, but I wanted to put out the x settler and all the religious buildings up before Sistine ... probably not the best course , though.
Anyway, the barb city will most likely not be barb for much longer:
Zara is moving a lot of units against it. It might hold this attack ( 3 archers + walls ), but it will break sooner or later. BTW, LK, this is part of the reason the scout got back to the east ( the other was to check if there was any movement of Shaka towards us, given that he is with hands full ).
Two end set screens:
SoZ is a place holder ... sort of. I am not optimistic on getting MoM in time and SoZ is a good culture pusher ( and a denial wonder as well ). If the team feels like trying MoM in Vij, feel free to.
Techwise we are not that bad ... and I expect to be able to trade stuff in some turns.
So , some sugestions:
- I think we can still put some extra cities. I'm eyeing the area north of the barb city, for a example: no resources , but a good handfull of grass tiles in between 2 cities of ours. As LK says a city against shaka is also needed ( those mountains ... ) ... not sure well.
- Techwise ... dunno. We have CS half teched and it is better to finish it , but after ... that depends of how the tech trades go . I would definitely prefer to trade for stuff like the lower side of the tech tree and for construction , but no AI has gone to to southern side so far ( except Zara, that has Feudalism and Shaka , that has MC ). So, do we go Paper->Edu ?
- Builds.... well, IMHO the thing to do now is to first get confu everywhere in our cities ( to get the org rel bonus and the shrine cash ) and basic infra. We should also consider to spread the jewish faith, since the AP will most likely be jewish ( the only civ that has theo is Pacal, that is jewish ... strangely Zara dropped going Theo in spite of being running missionary strat ( he has been using missionaries on us ). Besides that ... infra, workers , and some military
Spoiler :
Later this proved to be a bad decision:
Spoiler :
Zara was moving to the area ... and it was also a bad decision because there was a phant west of what was to be the rice city BFC that we didn't knew about at the time .
Anyway, we got music ... queued drama and CS after.
Spoiler :
And burned the GA into a GA
Spoiler :
BTW you can notice more stuff in there:
-Mound city is surrounded by our culture. Later in the set it would start showing revolt risk ( for a short while, unfortunately )
- As I predicted, Brennus was to attack SB. The war has gone nowhere during my set, but it putted SB in pure unit build mode.
Anyway, Zara settled against us:
Spoiler :
Maybe lymond was right after all :/
The RNG gods smiled upon us and we were granted with a GP:
Spoiler :
And settled city X
Spoiler :
I made a lot of infra around and a major set of workers. I reckon that I have not made the best GPP arrangements in the cap, but I wanted to put out the x settler and all the religious buildings up before Sistine ... probably not the best course , though.
Anyway, the barb city will most likely not be barb for much longer:
Spoiler :
Zara is moving a lot of units against it. It might hold this attack ( 3 archers + walls ), but it will break sooner or later. BTW, LK, this is part of the reason the scout got back to the east ( the other was to check if there was any movement of Shaka towards us, given that he is with hands full ).
Two end set screens:
Spoiler :
SoZ is a place holder ... sort of. I am not optimistic on getting MoM in time and SoZ is a good culture pusher ( and a denial wonder as well ). If the team feels like trying MoM in Vij, feel free to.
Techwise we are not that bad ... and I expect to be able to trade stuff in some turns.
So , some sugestions:
- I think we can still put some extra cities. I'm eyeing the area north of the barb city, for a example: no resources , but a good handfull of grass tiles in between 2 cities of ours. As LK says a city against shaka is also needed ( those mountains ... ) ... not sure well.
- Techwise ... dunno. We have CS half teched and it is better to finish it , but after ... that depends of how the tech trades go . I would definitely prefer to trade for stuff like the lower side of the tech tree and for construction , but no AI has gone to to southern side so far ( except Zara, that has Feudalism and Shaka , that has MC ). So, do we go Paper->Edu ?
- Builds.... well, IMHO the thing to do now is to first get confu everywhere in our cities ( to get the org rel bonus and the shrine cash ) and basic infra. We should also consider to spread the jewish faith, since the AP will most likely be jewish ( the only civ that has theo is Pacal, that is jewish ... strangely Zara dropped going Theo in spite of being running missionary strat ( he has been using missionaries on us ). Besides that ... infra, workers , and some military
>>Save here<<
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Additional details from looking at the game:
We have the Confucian shrine. The odds went in our favor.
More workers added, but we still need more with all this jungle.
Wow - the barb city is getting squeezed now.
Calcutta has snagged the pigs.
Library in 8 should help secure that.
4 turns to Sistine, should be locked since I still don't see anyone else with music.
6 turns to Parthenon in Varan. De Gaulle has Aesthetics, so a slight risk.
I am guessing Zeus in Vijay is a placeholder. That wonder has 0% value in my opinion. We need more military and workers.
How is Shaka the first person to Metal Casting? He usually sucks for tech.
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I am baffled why our scout is back in Ethiopia. Please turn him around toward Brennus. We need to know the lay of the land in the west.
IIRC Zara tends to spread all religions inside his borders. Do we want to confuse one of his cities?
We need Calcutta to continue to push culture buildings. We need a city to the 3 tiles east of it to have any chance to push against the Zulu. I don't want to make the mistake of waiting too late to get the border push cities built. Shaka sucks for culture, but right now it is impossible for us to push him.
3 south of Cahokia is 47% ours. I would like a settler and escort on standby to grab that spot. SB is our first target, so we need to be ready to jump on a border push chance.
"X" is built, so natural expansion phase is DONE. We now need start working toward an economy that produces enough EP to start on SB. Diplomatically SB is also screwed, really making him a target.
We have the Confucian shrine. The odds went in our favor.
More workers added, but we still need more with all this jungle.
Wow - the barb city is getting squeezed now.
Calcutta has snagged the pigs.
Library in 8 should help secure that. 4 turns to Sistine, should be locked since I still don't see anyone else with music.
6 turns to Parthenon in Varan. De Gaulle has Aesthetics, so a slight risk.
I am guessing Zeus in Vijay is a placeholder. That wonder has 0% value in my opinion. We need more military and workers.
How is Shaka the first person to Metal Casting? He usually sucks for tech.
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I am baffled why our scout is back in Ethiopia. Please turn him around toward Brennus. We need to know the lay of the land in the west.
IIRC Zara tends to spread all religions inside his borders. Do we want to confuse one of his cities?
We need Calcutta to continue to push culture buildings. We need a city to the 3 tiles east of it to have any chance to push against the Zulu. I don't want to make the mistake of waiting too late to get the border push cities built. Shaka sucks for culture, but right now it is impossible for us to push him.
3 south of Cahokia is 47% ours. I would like a settler and escort on standby to grab that spot. SB is our first target, so we need to be ready to jump on a border push chance.
"X" is built, so natural expansion phase is DONE. We now need start working toward an economy that produces enough EP to start on SB. Diplomatically SB is also screwed, really making him a target.
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I'm still trying to understand why we settled 1NW. No one has explained that to me. Settle further east like on the hill I suggested provides a far better city and still seals off the area - the current city has 5 desert tile and is 1 off the coast. It also would have made Zara's settle more interesting.
It's a shame we did not try to push out more GPs during the golden age. Delhi is not even running a spy. That is a lot of lost GPPs. Maybe even run Caste.
I agree that SoZ holds no value for the human, but it is one of the best denial wonders. Furthermore, it is one of those top culture output wonders. However, I would have gone for MoM before Soz, but it looks like SB may finish it before us unless we chopped it out somewhere
Once we get that CH and Theatre (possibly whip) in Patal, we should consider building culture there. The next pop on this city will actually start applying culture pressure on the Barb city - it currently has none. Patal is our best chance to flip this city and we should try to speed that along. Currently, building culture gets the pop in 18 turns. This would decrease quite a bit with a Theater whip. Try to get a mine on that plains hill and the pop will occur even faster.
It's a shame we did not try to push out more GPs during the golden age. Delhi is not even running a spy. That is a lot of lost GPPs. Maybe even run Caste.
I agree that SoZ holds no value for the human, but it is one of the best denial wonders. Furthermore, it is one of those top culture output wonders. However, I would have gone for MoM before Soz, but it looks like SB may finish it before us unless we chopped it out somewhere
Once we get that CH and Theatre (possibly whip) in Patal, we should consider building culture there. The next pop on this city will actually start applying culture pressure on the Barb city - it currently has none. Patal is our best chance to flip this city and we should try to speed that along. Currently, building culture gets the pop in 18 turns. This would decrease quite a bit with a Theater whip. Try to get a mine on that plains hill and the pop will occur even faster.
r_rolo1
King of myself
Updated the report.
I reckon this was not one of my best sets and that I have not made the best i could have done. But IMHO we are doing well enough for that to be more a bump than a catastrophe
I reckon this was not one of my best sets and that I have not made the best i could have done. But IMHO we are doing well enough for that to be more a bump than a catastrophe
Thy_Spellcraft
King
Got it! Will take a decent look at the save this evening!
Thy_Spellcraft
King
Here're some ideas:
Anything else?
- We're running OR without any religion --> Brennus is at war so we may consider to change religion to Jud. This would at least increase relations towards shaka
- I'd keep SoZ as it will hurt somewhen 'cause it won't become obsolete
- In case Zara shows up with another stack I'll close borders to ensure the barb city.
- As the city north of the barbs would need >5000
to put any pressure towards Qohaito I'll concentrate on more workers, some more units for maybe DoWing SB after getting some cats and some spies to start on PovertyPoint.. - Get culture towards the barb city as fast as possible.
- Techwise CS is a no brainer. But as Tao didn't fall I'd try for Philo to ensure lib later on..
- After CS I'd change to Bureau
Anything else?
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Not sure if this is in response to my comment or not, but again i would whip that Theatre asap in Patal and start building culture which will get the border pop very soon that will start putting culture pressure on the barb city. We may have a chance to flip it.
However, we should not keep the barb city and have a settler ready to settle 1S of where the barb city is, so as to make the best use of the land there.
Not sure about the religion switch, but it may not be a bad thing at least temporarily. We should get Jud spread asap though as we lose some culture in cities without it, plus we want to make use of OR everywhere. Start with key border cities first.
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I wouldn't go Jewish until we have it in a lot more cities. It will annoy SB, and waiting for the religious spread gives us time for an army that can fight SB.
How about building SoZ in Patal? Post GA the theater and SoZ total 22 turns. Once it grows in 4 turns and takes the hill above the FP (mined by then), the time would drop a lot.
An alternate plan would be to switch Calcutta to Jewish Missionary NOW. This would open up two more culture buildings for Patal to build.
Patal lacks Confucianism. We can build a Confucianism Academy as soon as that city is confused.
I really don't want a city just building culture. IMO we can't afford the city to be dead that long. It isn't just a question of getting culture into the barb city, but it going up each turn. 3 more CPT from the Jewish / Confucianism buildings works better for that. Plus we want to be able to build the +50% culture religious buildings at some point, and another temple helps.
I would like to build a settler with chariot for garrison for when we can an opening. Barb city, south of Chaokia or 3 east of Calcutta are all targets we are waiting one.
We do need to start thinking war with SB. However, I want to work on military first. "X" has NO garrison, and border cities like Varanasi have a warrior. Axes are good now why we wait for catapults. Cheap archers to defend cities well. I would like at least one in each city that borders SB before the war. Military keeps the AI away, spies don't. Let us get the troops first.
We are starting to get off-track IMO. We have one worker, and no military under construction. I don't want to wait too long to start war prep.
For tech I want to head toward Democracy. Jails, SoL and Rep is when we really took off last game.
How about building SoZ in Patal? Post GA the theater and SoZ total 22 turns. Once it grows in 4 turns and takes the hill above the FP (mined by then), the time would drop a lot.
An alternate plan would be to switch Calcutta to Jewish Missionary NOW. This would open up two more culture buildings for Patal to build.
Patal lacks Confucianism. We can build a Confucianism Academy as soon as that city is confused.
I really don't want a city just building culture. IMO we can't afford the city to be dead that long. It isn't just a question of getting culture into the barb city, but it going up each turn. 3 more CPT from the Jewish / Confucianism buildings works better for that. Plus we want to be able to build the +50% culture religious buildings at some point, and another temple helps.
I would like to build a settler with chariot for garrison for when we can an opening. Barb city, south of Chaokia or 3 east of Calcutta are all targets we are waiting one.
We do need to start thinking war with SB. However, I want to work on military first. "X" has NO garrison, and border cities like Varanasi have a warrior. Axes are good now why we wait for catapults. Cheap archers to defend cities well. I would like at least one in each city that borders SB before the war. Military keeps the AI away, spies don't. Let us get the troops first.
We are starting to get off-track IMO. We have one worker, and no military under construction. I don't want to wait too long to start war prep.
For tech I want to head toward Democracy. Jails, SoL and Rep is when we really took off last game.
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Whipping the Theatre and building Culture is the fastest way to get the border pop in Patal - it's a matter of a few turns after the Theatre. Once you get the pop, then the culture bleed into the barb city starts and usually goes pretty fast against a barb city. It does not mean Patal will have to build culture for a very long time and we can very much afford it. Not sure we want an academy in this city and SoZ is going to have a much great short term effect against SB.
Thy_Spellcraft
King
I too think building SoZ in Pata would be a waste as it would be of better use "against" SB. Building some more missionaries seems to be a good idea none the less.
Concerning raising or keeping the barb city: Does the rest of the team agrees on raising? In that case I'll need at least one more settler to be ready.. And just to start further discussion on city placement: Where should the other city north of the barbs get founded? I'd purpose 3N2E of the barb city..
Concerning raising or keeping the barb city: Does the rest of the team agrees on raising? In that case I'll need at least one more settler to be ready.. And just to start further discussion on city placement: Where should the other city north of the barbs get founded? I'd purpose 3N2E of the barb city..
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We will have to agree to disagree on this one. I would much rather spread two more religions to that city and build more temples / monasteries that will help us the whole game.
I agree to raze the barb city.
I can't judge the other city without seeing a proposed dot map. That is too hard to visualize from a post.
I think that wonder is a waste. We need troops, workers and infrastructure to get use to jails / SoL faster.
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Maybe we compromise and build culture off and on while getting mishes over to Patel. Whip temple/build culture/send mish/whip temple/build culture. The bottom line is let's get that border pop as fast as possible. Mishes will add culture anyway as long as we don't adopt a religion. I was never against spreading religion and building temples in Patal. My only concern is getting that pop asap. Academies though I'm not sure about. It depends if Patal will actually be a culture factor in an eastern direction. If not, it would be a waste of a religion wonder.
Yep, Thy, most definitely raze that barb city. As with many barb cities, they are often terribly located relative to our cities. If I recall my original dotmapping, the city would be placed best 1 south and matches well with Delhi as well as being able to work all the wines down there.
LK - I agree that we need some units and agree that SoZ is not generally the best wonder. However, it's a buttload of culture and we have a good chance at it. I think we are definitely at a point where we have enough cities to divvy up the responsibilities.
Delhi - Settlers/Workers/Units/Spies
Bombay - Units
Agra - Units/Spies
Vijay - Culture buildings and mishes
Calcutta - pretty much infra and culture for now - maybe some mish whips
Patel - 10 temples
^^^just an idea with all that, not saying that's the way to do it. The point is having our cake and eating it too. Organize a bit and you can have everything. One thing I don't think we need is a massive army yet, but we should be pretty strong.
Lastly, I think we should start hitting Mound City with a couple of spies. We want that city to flip to us soon.
Thy - I thought I laid down a dotmap for the jungle city above the barb one, but maybe not. I think I figure the best place would be such that it can share the cows with Vijay and be on the river. (edit: now that I've looked at it, I think that's exactly as you described 3N2E - the cows will help get the city running fast and then we just cottage all that green)
Thy_Spellcraft
King
^^ I don't think Mound City should be target of any mission.. It's kind of waste! We need to decrease the number of defenders.. The targets for our mission should be Poverty or Chaco!
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IIRC it has over 50% of our culture already. The city is already isolated.
