RR14 - Wa shaa Allah

[LKendter]

Seeing as I screwed up, let me try again

We should just "hold the fort" against the Aztecs as we blow up China.

This is what I don't agree with. IMO we must stay active on all fronts. We can't afford to be idle. Even if we start with raze it all at this point, we need to be working all fronts.

No matter what, I would like at least one city South America also. Chichen is OK for the north...

I really don't want to be stuck in holding action anywhere. To many cities, and to little turns. The Euro battle took far to long...

 

[lymond]

Well, I basically agree with your aggressive approach. It is pretty much what I've been saying all along. However, I don't think we can put too many resources on the Aztecs at this point. The ex-Euros are far easier targets to get out to the way and really it would be nice to see them go for multiple reasons.

I think we can see-saw with the Aztec. Taking a bite out of China will probably make Monty break from him shortly after in which case we can get a temp peace while we finish China.

However, if we think we can reasonably attack the Aztecs then I'm not against it. I just don't think we should overextend ourselves. Go for small victories.

 

[r_rolo1]

So , how about this as a sketch of a plan ?

- Move all mainland Europe + Africa ( ? ... it depends of how much navy we can muster ... if we have enough of it at the time maybe it is better to ferry the African troops to S. America ) forces to the Chinese border.

- Give decent techs to GK. Let him do some decent buffer job for us ... say , Ass. Line, rocketry and Rails. Should be enough.

- Optionally make peace with the English after capturing Dublin. The rest of his land is in S: America so it will take surely 10+ turns to get there ( unless we ferry them from Africa ). That unless we want to start munching on the Spanish, that are a little closer ... we can use the troops currently in Chichen for that, if we put some ferry ability in the area.

- Finish Bizantium. Not that hard , really

- War the Chinese . Monty can't do a thing in the Americas since he has no OB with the HRE

- Try to beat out china enough for Monty to rebel. Optionally make peace with him ( better cease fire ). If Monty does not rebel, continue beating the chinese until they are not relevant and then proceed to the next item

- DoW HRE. Conquer ex-Aztec cities

- Dow Monty

OFC this is a bit wobbly, but I think the core idea is robust enough.

 

[nocho]

Sounds good, just beware of domination. How are we going to avoid that? Raze everything in the Americas, Oceania and possibly Korea and Japan? If we get mainland China we will be quite close to the limit already.

 

[r_rolo1]

Sounds good, just beware of domination. How are we going to avoid that? Raze everything in the Americas, Oceania and possibly Korea and Japan? If we get mainland China we will be quite close to the limit already.

We can give the captured chinese cities to our vassals. Neither of them is strong enough to be in risk of going away ...

 

[r_rolo1]

Ok, not a full report, just a middle stop to ask advice.

I played 6 turns so far. Pushed the brits out of Europe, finished Bizantium for good and started moving troops against S. America ( 1st wave should hit in 2 turns ) and China as planned. I also teched 40%ish of Adv flight, so thing in that regard are going well on schedule.

The issue is China.

Spoiler :

On in the first screen we can see that:

- China is making both Apollo ( not good ) and the Net ( even worse ). I have spies in place aging for the sabotage, so that is not a big concern.

- China is teching Robotics ( that, among other things, means mechs. Definitely not good )

- Mansa is running FR. I solved that after taking the pic

- China is gearing to war. I would be on Korea as target ( annoyed + border pressure ). They are not piling troops yet, so might catch hem before that.

On the second we can see that ex-french city ( now chinese ) incrusted in mongol territory. There is a significant chinese force there, so we have all the interest in killing it there. The issue ( not showed ) is that the confinement to 1 tile will not last long ( all the tiles west of the city give 13% mongol 12% chinese .. I doubt it will hold for more than 1 turn )....

BTW that city houses the UN ,so we definitely want it

My question is simple: should I start the war now ? I clearly worried with the fact that roughly half of our European troops are still en route and that the Mongols still haven't fully modernized their army or layed the necessary rails*. My plan was to get some troops in the Chinese-Mongol border in the way to Beijing and let a cleanup stack to deal with that city, but I do feel that we can't wait much longer to attack the chinese... OTOH there are areas where our vassals will have a rough time and we can't do anything for them now ( the Mongol cap and the khmer Australia ).

* I gifted up to arties, rails and ass. line to genghis and traded Ind + radio for fission with the khmer. Mostly to boost them, but also to have access to nukes as soon as someone makes Manhattan ( only the Khmer, the Liz gang ( the rest of the Euros ) except Louis and us have fission so far ... a nuclear conflagration is not likely so far )

P.S Monty running P.S with tanks and battleships is really not a reasuring sight

If someone wants to give a more detailed look, the save is here . I will waitfor some feedback , but i would like to play the rest of the set today .

 

[nocho]

Go for it!

 

[r_rolo1]

A little delayed, but here is the report ...

I started the set with a vote result ...

Spoiler :

Nothing serious ... as the AP vote that came in the same IBT. Chose embargo to Rags ( it passed )

Spoiler :

Next thing to do was to exile the brits to S. America :

Spoiler :

We got a GG in our cap for this. Still chiling out.

Then I started the operation " Make GK a decent vassal"

Spoiler :

It took the extra turns because of the prereqs for arties. I also direct his research away from Liberalism ( no FR for him ) . Anyway this is more than enough for now and GK , even being a AI , simply didn't had enough of cash to upgrade all the units in one sweep.

Anyway, next turn Sats came by. Adv Flight was slotted ( jets and gunships )

Spoiler :

Also we got to decrease the cultural nag in some cities ...

Spoiler :

The guy should had been killed ages ago, but we had our hands full .

I also decided to make a trade with out vassal...

Spoiler :

A little light , but the main objective was to buff the khmer to help us fend the chinese. That didn't worked out as good as I wanted , but more on that later.

At this point I decided to wait some more turns to attack QSH. I really wanted to attack them earlier , but it was far more safe to get some more troops in the loop ... it was also a good idea since it gave GK more time to upgrade his troops.

Anyway we still got a UN vote ...

Spoiler :

... that passed, and a event ...

Spoiler :

... before the main dish:

Spoiler :

Immediately I captured the UN city ... the ammount of troops there was quite big and the lost of the city made quite a dent on QSH power ( from 1.2 to 1.4 of ours ,even with a new vassal ( Louis changed masters ) )

Spoiler :

Two turns later i captured the city where QSH was making Apollo. It is also a city with quite big defensive bonuses ( rivers from every angle of attack + hill ), so the sooner it was taken, the better. I creamed all of our arties in the southern stack there, so we need some more.

Spoiler :

Our vassals are, for a change, being useful in the war. GK, after upgrading his troops , is putting quite a stack to attack the Chinese northern cities ( btw, we want that shrine city there .. don't let GK capture it ). Sury is doing some amphibious landings ( I don't see any being sucessful, but A for effort, like the yankees use to say ) and deprived the chinese of oil ( their only free source was a sea one ( he has land oil, so I assume he gifted all but one oil to his vassals ), that sury pillaged in t0 ).

In fact i would even be more happy if Sury had not sent his attack stack away from the chinese border at war dec ( it is currently near Samarkand, so i assume he targetted the UN city ). But anyway , that is my fault for not telling him what city to attack.... ( but really , he borders china .... )

The capture of Chengdu was a good stopping point for the set ( I moved most of the units out after the capture ,to not anger LK ). Some pics for military intel:

First, north China:

Spoiler :

Shows Yanjing garrison and our stack there. There are some other units moving around GK territory to his cap as gathering point ... I think that this front is pretty covered ,even if because we have GK also working on the case.

South China:

Spoiler :

In here the situation is far more complicated ( btw ,sorry for not showing the stack there ... ). We lost quite a bunch of units there, especially siege and the air cover is quite deficient. Also the fact that Sury moved his troops away from the front did not helped in here. Anyway , nothing that can't be fixed fast enough ...

S. America

Spoiler :

I avoided to talk of this front so far ( mainly because of lack of pics ), but as you can see I captured two Spanish cities in there, mainly for bomber bases/ airport. The units there need some healing ( the only doctor there landed only this turn IIRC ), but there is nothing really serious down there to face us... Also a good part of our Atlantic fleet is there healing as well ( really pesky brit battleships and subs ).

BTW the rest of the navy is mostly harboured in Corboba and in the Indian souternmost city ( don't remember name ). Our Indian fleet needs fighters fast. the chinese have quite a punch in there ( 2 task forces ( Battleship + destroyer + carrier packed with planes ) going towards India ) and I decided to not confront them until we have air cover....

EDIT: there is a lone infantry in a fort inside of Brit territory. That happened because that fort had 2 battleships + 1 figher there and it was a easy picking. Please take the guy out of there

Ok, points for the next turnset...

First, techs. I think that composites is a good choice ( for M. Armors ). We need a unit with high str to face the need to take Pro Mechs out ( they will come soon ). After that ... dunno. SS techs ?

Khmer made Apollo. To get things worse, I forced him to tech Superconductors :/ Keep a eye and don't let him to get a SS running .

The rest is pretty much planned out is previous posts: beat china some more, pray for monty to get out of vassaling, continue operations in S. America ( remember to keep a base for bombers to attack the incans ... even if by giving a city to one of our vassals ).

>>Save here<<​

 

[LKendter]

The big question is when do we start RAZING. We can't afford to many more cities unless domination is our goal.

 

[r_rolo1]

Well, the only cities that IMHO are to keep are the last 2 shrines ( both in China ) and maybe one or other wonder city ( say, Orleans, that houses Broadway ). The rest can be razed /gifted to vassals.

The cities I captured were mainly for strategical reasons: We need a bomber base or two in S. America ( can't put bombers in carriers .... ) , the UN is too valuable to raze and Chengdu is central for campaign proposes ( besides foiling all the hammers putted there for Apollo ).

 

[lymond]

got it...i'll take a look at things over the next day

@rolo

Spoiler :

"putted" works on the golf course, but "put" is a different word. "put" is the past tense of "put". Your English is otherwise fantastic

 

[LKendter]

"put" is the past tense of "put".

HUH?

 

[lymond]

Ok...I took a quick glance. Probably the big thing is figuring out where all the stacks are, especially the navy. Good to see GK helping out a bit.

I'll take a deeper look, but the first thing that stands out to me at this point that I think we should discuss is the end game. I want to make sure we are on the same page. First off, as discussed, with the exception of a few key cities we really have to raze most cities to avoid early Dom. Secondly, it seems to me that we will need to win by Conquest, as I think we will have to wipe every non-Muslim off the map. I just want to make sure I'm think straight on this deal.

Also, does every city in the world have to have Islam or just every civ.

 

[r_rolo1]

Updated the report.

I think that we will need to go Conquest/ last turn Domination in this game. Unfortunately we couldn't not attack China, that would had saved us from this bloodthirthy end ( i really wanted to make a more peaceful game ... ). This means that our warfare will need a lot of razings. i already stated that the only cities we wanted were the two shrines that aren't in our hands and maybe broadway city ( or similar ). The rest might be razed ... in spite of thinging that gifting most of the chinese mainland cities to the Khmer/GK to boost both and maybe some american cities to mansa ( to allow basing bombers ) would be for the best ...

BTW I already have a idea for the next game ... something out of this huge maps

RR15 - *witty name still to be decided*

- No farms, cottages or mines except in resources that need them to get the resource in the trade network ( that is: mines only in metals + gems tiles and farms only in cereal tiles . no cottages whatsoever )

- All of the above improvments that come with captured land have to be pillaged or bulldozed ASAP . If that is not possible ATM they can't be worked.

In monarch/emperor i think this is chalenge enough

 

[IdiotsOpposite]

I'd actually be willing to play that. It really plays to my favorite economy, i.e. the Workshop/Watermill economy. Once you get State Property, it really kills.

 

[nocho]

Good work! I hope lymond effectively neuters the already bruised Chinaman before it gets back to me.

RR15 sounds fine, I indeed can use break from world maps after this one and pigswill anti-barbarian razing crusade. It reminds me a bit of Miller Time, a SG classic! I actually have wanted to do something similar so I'll be definitely in.

 

[lymond]

Unfortunately for Lkendter, he has yet to delete his embarrassing post above...

RR15 sounds interesting. What type of map? I would think we would want some coast and seafood around.

I will play tomorrow. Sounds like we just keep chomping away at China.

 

[·Imhotep·]

I have interest in RR 15 as well. Never tried watermills and workshops pre-Industrial. The best way to try it is in a SG .

 

[r_rolo1]

Ok, IO and Immy. I'll remember you when the game stars Now we only have to finish this one first

 

[lymond]

Just an update that I am playing. Each turn takes forever, so it may take couple of days to finish. No real news as I'm still snailing my way across Qin's borders to reach his cities after a couple of turns played. However, I did steal computers and in the process of building the Net, not that we really need it. Monty is pestering England with his ships. (I do find it odd that most all our workers are just parked, still plenty to do) I expect to take a few Chinese cities and wipe out Spain.