RR17 -Team B

[r_rolo1]

This is the thread for the Team B of RR 17

nocho
astre
pigswill
lymond
strijder20

Just to remind the OP of the now common thread:

Here is our variant:

- Industrial era start

- Space and time win disabled. Only military victories allowed for the human player ( Conquest or Domination )

- Can't declare war before turn 50

Map options

Spoiler :

Leader

Spoiler :

Start

Spoiler :

Tech tree, for those not used to non ancient starts

Spoiler :

(...)

>>Save<<​

 

[nocho]

Hello team! Just mentioning I'll go on holidays on Saturday but I should have time this week. I hope to take along a civvable laptop with internet access but not sure about it yet. At least I'll stay in touch through the iphone while away.

 

[lymond]

Enjoy your time off, Nocho! Where you headed?

I'l take a look at things more closely later and give more thoughts. First thing to think about is Civic switches (wish we were playing with a SPI leader), city placement and builds.

Serfdom is actually a good civic to use for a bit on late starts. We could start with it or start with Slavery and quick whip some workers - we will grow back quick. HR, Bureau, Merc and OR being other obvious choices. I think Slavery vs. Serf first will be a good argument.

 

[astre]

report for duty here.

we need a roster, a tech path and more important: 3 starting locations.


first analysis: the leader is ok (at least, he is usefull)
If nothing major is revealed with our armies first city could be put in starting location
For research, i propose steam power (all IA will go for physic anyway and we will not win that race)

EDIT after seeing Lymond post:
I forgot about civic

I agree with bureau and OR but propose the good combo representation/merc (we start each settle with a forge), for serf/slavery, i prefer serf as we have a lot to terraform to do and workers are 25% off..
but slavery is also very good

 

[lymond]

Ah...forgot about Rep. Just came off some HOF Ren starts where Rep is not available yet. Yeah, Rep is certainly bodacious.

Ah, yes we are EXP, so we can chop 3 or 4 workers out asap - we want a lot at first. Going SERF first means less civic switches. (we may never need slavery). Nationalism and Caste may be better later for production and drafting.

SIP is ok, but I'd like to move the Explorer south and hopefully find more food below the cows. This would allow us to settle on the river south somewhere and settle another city north for the corn, again with rivers and the lovely Levee. It may be a pipe dream though.

Speaking of which, Turn 0 unit moves is a good topic.

Steam sounds ok, but I need to look at the techs more closely and the fact that we will likely pop a GE first.

 

[nocho]

Don't we want to settle on the PH NE of the settlers if nothing is revealed by explorers? I'd go SE-SE with the eastern one and SW and then either SW or SE with the western one.

Agree with bureau, rep, merc, OR, undecided about slav/serf. If we don't settle the first turn, anarchy is less of a "problem"... You can switch civics without a city yet, can you?

BTW, do religions get assigned after 5-ish turns just like renaissance starts? We don't get culture buildings upon founding new cities...

 

[pigswill]

Another civic option might be caste which would certainly combine with merc and rep. If we swop civix on T0 then we can explore and move settlers while anarchy subsides without losing anything.

 

[lymond]

Definitely switch civics on the first turn. We want Serf first for several turns to chop more workers and get up improvement fast, then switch to Caste. It's the best play on later era starts.

 

[astre]

+1 for switching 1st turn

for religion, yes, we will get one soon.
we don't get building culture for free but we can build culture

for moving armies:
the obvious are the 2 explorators and NW riffleman goes on close hill while NE riffleman goes NE.
with a new picture, we can decide more after that

 

[nocho]

Given my closeby holidays (I'm headed to Galicia in the NW of Spain btw, lymond. Great food there. ), I'll take the liberty of claiming the first set. I moved the explorers and riflemen as proposed by astre.

Lots of possibilities here as there's nothing that really screams as the most obvious to me. The PHs NE and NW are possibilities but not riverside and if we go steam, levees are not far away. Maybe a city SW of cow with rice and another 2E of northern copper with gold, copper, silk, corn and some FPs. Third city needs more exploring, obviously the FPs might be interesting enough.
South of the horses seems to be coast. Something coastal with rice and horse is possible too.

By the way, I noted that if we take 4 of 5 civics now, it's only 1 turn of anarchy, the 5th costs another turn. So especially if we consider another civics switch soon we might postpone the 5th civic now, if not immediately beneficial (supposing that the double switch later is also 1 turn) and if we settle on T0 or T1.

 

[pigswill]

We can omit OR for now which is slightly pointless without a religion, on the other hand it looks like 2-3 turns before we settle cities.

2E of copper/1N of silk looks a decent site.

Maybe 2N of rice is an option, gets cows and hills for a production city.

No very obvious site for city3 however. Down south looks a bit jungly.

 

[nocho]

I guess gold city should be the bureau capital and hence the first city to be settled. Hence we'd have until T2 and can do all switches anyway. I think SW of cow has a hill more if we look for prod, though a dye less. Food in first ring would be good though. SW of cow could be settled T1 but maybe it should be postponed a turn... Both cities would go worker first? I'd head NE with 3rd settler.

 

[astre]

2E of copper/1N of silk is very good but can't be settled before T4 :/

I'm for T2: SW of cow for the capital to gain turns

for last settler, go west

proposed production order: worker, then culture if necessary, then library, observatory/bank, university...

 

[nocho]

There's only 1 turn of difference, not 2. Counting this is T0, gold can be settled T2.

 

[lymond]

Nocho, can we get a save so we can plot the cities.

I'm surprised 4 civics is not 2 turns. I guess we can omit OR but we might get a religion in a few turns. Although we may change civics again fairly soon. 2t of anarchy is not that big a deal when you are moving 3 settlers around.

Not a big deal, but it is very possible we won't run Bureau very long or even build cottages in the first cities.

Currently, I like 1 city 1N of silk and another 1SW of Cow. Not sure on the 3rd city as I don't see another good spot for food. Maybe somewhere around those horses or up near the FPs in the NE.

2E of copper/1N of silk is very good but can't be settled before T4 :/

T3 actually


workers can start prechopping city 1 and 2 to get out more workers. We want at least 5 or 6 workers asap

 

[nocho]

Not at the civ comp right now, so save will have to wait a bit... Figured it wasn't needed yet, how wrong I was!

Btw, is there any point in cottages with such a modern start? Farms and specs especially with rep seems much more rewarding. Bio won't be far away either.

 

[lymond]

Btw, is there any point in cottages with such a modern start? Farms and specs especially with rep seems much more rewarding. Bio won't be far away either.

Yep, that's my point on the cottages. They do very little for you at this point unless we go Emanc later. It's best to watermill/workshop or farm those FPs - even better with levees. The hammer economy is best at this stage.

We can probably cottage up some cities later that we capture (mainly to offset maintenance as we take more cities), they will probably have some cottages anyway, but our core cities should go for mass production and food. Even GPs are of limited value at this point except maybe to speed up one keep tech like Steel with a GE and then Golden Ages.

I think we seem pretty set on City 1 and 2 and they will be decent cities. Concerned about city 3 and where to move but it is not urgent. I'd rather hold off for some additional scouting in each direction to find the best spot. Getting one coastal city may be a good idea on Fractal, but not critical....we can capture one later.

 

[nocho]

A save and the 2 proposed sites so far.

 

[lymond]

Yep, totally cool on city 1 and 2.

Those FPs up NE offer some possibilities that our Rifle might see. We could even settle on that desert hill next to him. At least it will have some food and production albeit at least 2 peaks in the BFC.

I propose moving 2 Settlers to the City 1 spot (turquoise) and the other settler to the red spot. Reason to move 2 Settlers to blue spot on Turn 0 is that the second settler has an easy 2 move either NE or SW depending on what we find around the horse or FPs and how we feel we should settle. Basically the point is we are not totally committing settler 3 to a direction and giving him flexibility to move in either direction. It basically then leaves just 2 moves to either a NE or SW spot potentially.

 

[astre]

ok for settlers move given by lymond.
I sence that west have more potential (too mutch desert and jungle in the est) but that's the way to go.

for settler action, i'm also in favor of watermill/workshop with farm to keep the workshop alive (caste system as soon as all is terraformed?).

isn't there is a speed bonus for industrial start for cottage growth?