Ruff02 - Concurrent Succession Game

[chriseay]

Spoiler :

Ok, my goals for these 15 turns are as follows:

- Get a darn lighthouse in Delhi. We have the colossus, and a ton of pop, and we still don't have the ability to work sea tiles in our capital without sacrificing growth. (I'm fairly certain I've built a lighthouse here in each of my turnsets.)
- Settle 2 to 3 new cities, while trying to stay close to even on finances at close to our current science rate.

Turn 1 - Monarchy comes in, revolt to HR to allow Delhi to grow larger. It is at the happiness limit right now. CoL is next for research, as we obviously could use the courthouses.

Turn 2 - Hatty cancels open borders with us, stranding a missionary. I also start the GL in Karakorum. I assume everyone will get this, but we'll see.

Turn 3 - Found first new city, Calcutta on the iron corn spot south of Karakorum. Second will be founded on the island north of Delhi, and a third south of Turfan.

Turn 5 - Lahore is founded at aforementioned second spot. Two workboats are ready to fish it up, and a third is coming in 3 turns. Plus, religion will spread there on the first turn it exists.

Turn 6 - Hatty offers Construction for MC. Seems like an ok deal to me, as we've long had a monopoly on MC.

Turn 8 - CoL comes in, and we finish the Great Library in Karakorum. Calendar is the next tech in the line. Once it is researched and resources hooked up we should be good on happies for awhile.

Turn 10 - Starting courthouses in every city as current builds finish.

Turn 11 - Settler heads to the southern tip of the continent, almost directly south of Delhi to settle the fourth new city of my turnset.

Turn 12 - Karachi is founded, and again religion is spread immediately. Great job by mutineer in having lots of missionaries around and in production.

Turn 13 - Calendar comes in, and I immediately start hooking up resources. Next up is currency. We need more money, and I did go sort of expansion crazy, so....

Turn 15 - And that's it. 4 new cities. Currency in 3 turns, at 50 percent science losing 4 gpt. Many courts coming in soon though. Great Library in Karakorum, and religion in every city except the newest, Kolhapur. Score is 839, Bismarck 672, and Hatty 621. Here's some pertinent screens.

EDIT: Just realized that I played 15, and at least one other person played 20. I don't know if everyone played 20 or not. I don't have time to play the last 5 right now, but just keep it in mind in evaluating my turns.

 

[Mutineer]

everyone else played 20.
WE might even increase this amount, as otherwize we will finish this game next year or we need to do 2 turns per week. But by some reason you folk allways late even for 1 turn/week.

 

[chriseay]

everyone else played 20.
WE might even increase this amount, as otherwize we will finish this game next year or we need to do 2 turns per week. But by some reason you folk allways late even for 1 turn/week.

You piss me off. You constantly look down on every one else in this game. You might be better at CIV then we are, but please try to be somewhat civil. I'm not late. The parameters for the game were play by Wednesday, post, discuss Thursday, and vote Friday. That's the way it's been the whole time. If you can't deal with this, then please drop out. I know I would be happy, because all you've done the whole game is offer insults on other players. Never any constructive criticism.

On this set, I think my save loses because I was under the impression we were playing 15 turns. That being said, because of the expansion I did in my turns I vote for Mutineer's set. He accomplished the same amount of expansion I did, though I would have probably had one more city, in 5 more turns. I think at this point expansion is paramount. We need to take complete control of our landmass.

 

[Mutineer]

You piss me off. You constantly look down on every one else in this game. You might be better at CIV then we are, but please try to be somewhat civil. I'm not late. The parameters for the game were play by Wednesday, post, discuss Thursday, and vote Friday.

Escuse me, you post your game Mid Day thursday. But I suppous US is the centre of the world?
I am often bisy on week days, that why I post on satarday.
To be late is disrespectfull and demiring to others. For god sake, you asked to do it only one's a week.

 

[ruff_hi]

Its Voting Time!
pholkhero
bobrath
Mutineer
chriseay
Spinoza - mia
knupp715
Ruff_Hi
radiopill

 

[ruff_hi]

Escuse me, you post your game Mid Day thursday. But I suppous US is the centre of the world?
I am often bisy on week days, that why I post on satarday.
To be late is disrespectfull and demiring to others. For god sake, you asked to do it only one's a week.

Obviously we have different time zones involved in this game. I, for one, know that the US is right at the end of the time zones - it is basically behind the times all the time - and I can say this because I have lived in a number of -widely spread - time zones.

timing - I was thinking 4 days to play and write up, 1 day to post, 2 days to decide which save is 'best' (maybe play / write Sat-Tue, post Wed, discuss Thur, vote Fri)

I am fairly sure that I said 'local' time in another post but I cannot find it at the moment. So, someone posting Wed US time, will *appear* late to someone in Asia or Australia but they are NOT ACTUALLY LATE.

So - anyone - got any comments on the game options?

 

[ruff_hi]

Hmmn - a couple of very similar turn sets from Radiopill and Mutineer (you guys must have discussed that reseach path. Mutineer appears to be two turns in front - prob more scientists. Radiopill has 1 less city but his are bigger (less whipping?). Bobrath is again similar but differs in the last research going for Machinery instead of philo. Chriseay only played 15 but looks to be heading in a very similar direction.

Interesting.

 

[Mutineer]

Well to be true, what is plan behind researching Machinery?
I would explain my reason behind Philosofy.

We have a lot of food ritch cities, which can not work cottages because they do not have land to work on.
Any specialists produce 3 units of somethig + GP points.
So, I plan to revolt to pacifism, from there I can go 3 ways.

1) Hire a lot of merchamats and speed up research Machinery by using them to help research Machinery.
IN current research state Merchant will offer paper-civil service-Machinery-guilds-Banking
If I remember correctly. I might miss some order somewhere.
So, I can manially research paper why speed up Civil cerviceand machinery with GM.

2)Hire lot of scientist.
Scientist will offer-paper-education-Free press-

So, I can manially research Paper why waiting for GS to speed up education-research liberalism-(nationalism)-Gunpowder and go on occupation spree.

3) Hire bunch of artists
Artists will offer divine right-Nationalism-paper(or constitution)

Or I can try to generate mixture of them in different cities in order to choise some path if any drop rundom.

As you can see, philosofy offer wide range of posibilities to fly try next few technologies and we can go civil service/machinery way and start warring very soon with Maceman/cats combo, and continue go in direction of banking and republic using merchant.
Or we can go stright to liberalism shot to nationalism/gunpowder and fight with mixture of Muskets/cats. Pacifism is extrimelly powerfull sci oriented civic.
that research path.

Other comments:

I found National epic in Karokorum a bit questinable, as it is our strongest production town with not big food excess. Natural thinks to put there would be hiroic epic/west point, as we really do not have any other good production cities. 2 scientist from GL do not justify National epic in my mind.

 

[bobrath]

I'm interested to know why the other three picked the city site they did for our far south holding. So much desert included in its radius. That's the biggest reason I moved mine NE from that spot.

 

[Mutineer]

Is has cow/floodplance+gold in radius and coastal. With farmed floodplance and cottages else it will be resonable city and gold provide income stright away. I do not warry about desert.

That is if I undestand question correctly.
IN my mind ocean = desert. 1 commerce does not justify working ocean.

 

[radiopill]

you guys must have discussed that reseach path. Mutineer appears to be two turns in front - prob more scientists. Radiopill has 1 less city but his are bigger (less whipping?)

No, we didn't, but as I get Theo for free, I could have gone for Paper, and perhaps win the race for Liberalism. We know an AI already have Philo, but it doesn't mean this AI goes for Lib directly, and Paper is always good for trading, most of the time (IMO) AI delayed this research, and the we could go for education. that's my mistake I think... I should have go for Education before Philo as Taoism was already been funded, nevertheless Pacifism could be really usefull as Mutineer had explain us (thx for this strategy).

As you have also noticed Ruff, I didn't make a lot of (once in Madras, Turfan and calcutta...)

I have one less city, but a settler is due in 3 turns (less with), and Karak and Bangalore finish their production next turn, so it is still possible to go for one/two more settler(s).

For the tech, compare to Mutineer, I already have Paper, Philo in 5, but it could be 4 if we raise a little the research slider...
Machinery, IMO, isn't really necessary right now, unless we'll go for bank, but in this case we'll probably loose liberalism...

I'm interested to know why the other three picked the city site they did for our far south holding. So much desert included in its radius. That's the biggest reason I moved mine NE from that spot.

For me two reasons, first maintenance cost, and second one this city have a lot of food and so we can work some sea tiles and benefit from our colossus...

I found National epic in Karokorum a bit questinable, as it is our strongest production town with not big food excess.

I agreed, for the moment, I don't think we have a good city for National Epic, we should wait for Thebes...
In Dehli, we should build Oxford (and perhaps WallStreet...) IMHO.

So here is my point of view... I wait for the vote, to see all the opinions and strategical options, we'll discuss...

 

[bobrath]

That is if I undestand question correctly.
IN my mind ocean = desert. 1 commerce does not justify working ocean.

However, Ocean can provide food (lighthouse) and more commerce (colosuss) whereas desert will never provide anything. I've always considered desert (unless they pop a resource or contain an oasis) to be the same as mountains. They do nothing to help your city.

As far as maintenance goes, I believe my city site selction will have the same cost as its straightline distance to the capital is the same. My city also provides gold, cows, fish, and fresh water... I just don't understand how its a lesser site then the desert/ocean one founded by the rest...

 

[Mutineer]

I actially believe more wipping is a strong point of my save, as I allredy have Markets in food ritch cities in preparation to Nationalism Draft and more city grow. When cities still small it is more profitable to whipe, as it cost less food to regrow. Anyway, health are main limit on size city right now, as unhealth limit specialist hiring.
Yes, my cities a bit smaller, but now main infrustructure done they can grow freely.

Radiophil, I do not think you researched paper. Your report and tech tree does not show paper researched and you did not had time.
Paper is relativelly cheap tech, btw.

 

[Mutineer]

Bobrath, I think you city in = location. I would put next city there.
My logic in choising current position is cimply nearer/more compact.

 

[radiopill]

Radiophil, I do not think you researched paper. Your report and tech tree does not show paper researched and you did not had time.

Yes, my mistake... I researched "Papier" if you look to the screenshots of the tradeable tech you can see it...
And if I say, I have done something, than it's true... We doesn't play poker, I don't want to bluff other people, I just report my turns.

I just don't understand how its a lesser site then the desert/ocean one founded by the rest...

It's not lesser, but in the moment I play, the other looks better to me, with more whipping opportunities, and it was closer (less turn for the settler to reach the place to settle) and there was less chance to find an barbarian. But for me the next place I would settle, is the one you choose, and not the one in the south of Dehli...

Bobrath, I think you city in = location. I would put next city there.
My logic in choising current position is cimply nearer/more compact.

I just notice this post... what can I say... I agree.

 

[chriseay]

It's not lesser, but in the moment I play, the other looks better to me, with more whipping opportunities, and it was closer (less turn for the settler to reach the place to settle) and there was less chance to find an barbarian. But for me the next place I would settle, is the one you choose, and not the one in the south of Dehli...

I wanna interject something here about city placement. While I said last night, and still believe, that rapid expansion to fill up our landmass is what we must do, rather than possibly losing it, the order of cities built doesn't matter much. My plan is to have the entire landmass filled ASAP. The being said, I used the settlers from Delhi to settle closer to that city, and built a settler in both Turfan and Karakorum for the more southern spots. Then, we can build more from there and focus Delhi on other things to settle the rest of the south. Also, the fishing villages, since they will rely on the whip, need to be up as soon as possible to come to maturity in a timely manner.

 

[radiopill]

I wanna interject something here about city placement. While I said last night, and still believe, that rapid expansion to fill up our landmass is what we must do, rather than possibly losing it, the order of cities built doesn't matter much. My plan is to have the entire landmass filled ASAP.

I agree, we need to fill our island ASAP... but I really didn't worry if an AI settled on the spot in the south of Dehli, as it will be really quickly cultured flip (IMO), and it will saves us a settler. A contrario the south peninsula is more sensitive, as Bismark has a small island for himself, and would probably expand in that way, and it will be harder to flip it because of the distance with the other big culture cities...

 

[ruff_hi]

Here is my vote ... Bobrath. I feel the need for some pain (or inflicting it at least) and upgrading our axes to maces would fulfill that ticket for me. Selected purely based on having some beakers in Maceman tech (might reconsider based on comments below).

Let the Counting Commence
pholkhero votes for radiopill
bobrath votes for radiopill
Mutineer
chriseay votes for radiopill
Spinoza - mia
knupp715 votes for radiopill
Ruff_Hi votes for Bobrath
radiopill votes for radiopill

 

[Mutineer]

Could you explain your reason for a voite?
His research path is most slow.
If go form my save I can get Maceman out mach faster then he can.

Bobrath choise bad location for National epic. This 2 factors should put his save to the bottom of the pile.

 

[radiopill]

So let's vote... I tend to vote for my or Mutineers save's, but as he didn't manage to convince me that his save is better than mine, I vote for mine .

I don't like to much bobrath's save, because of the national epic (in Karak), and the sistine chapel (a waste of hammer, IMHO).

And for chriseay's save, a good development (lots of cities), but a poor infrastructure (few courthouses and no market, of course with 5 more turns, there will be some more CH, but curency due in 3... so for me a lot of money has been lost).