Discussion in 'Civ4 -ISDG 2012' started by Lord Parkin, Jun 1, 2012.
I will be working this comment into the rules preamble .
Hohoho, I like your position! This is what I call real men and and true gamers!
In which post can I find the latest version of our proposal?
Here it is:
or the set that everyone has been discussing for the last 70ish posts starts here, at this post and then for the next 3 or 4 posts.
Yeah, even we/CFC have backed the Ruff set kinda explicitly
Ruff, can you please make that one post, for easy access/reference? And do you have any feedback on the mzprox solution, that I tried to make a rule out of in post #295?
I feel we're closing in on a finalized ruleset here...
I too feel that we are getting closer to a rule set that the teams can vote on. I want to try and knock together a rule set for war (and war declarations) as the whole 'how to grab the turn order you want' parts remain cloudy to me.
I also like the 'mzprox solution' solution but we need a 100% positive 'the mod can do this' comment from one of the mod makers or someone who has seen the mod do this. I would hate to play 150 turns just to find out that the mod cannot execute on a rule this critical.
I find it annoying that the r_rolo1 set is still being referenced - I think it is the only set being discussed by one of the non-English speaking teams (ie Yuufo's team).
I do apology if we have ready combined clear ruleset somewhere and I missed it - I though all things said after this is discussion of this ruleset. Maybe it is best if you put all the clarified/combined terms in one post for clarity.
ok - I will do that. I'll include a draft preamble and a draft @war sections too. Note that I am about to sit down to a middle earth marathon so it will be a while.
ruff, we have a 100% confirmation that the mod can do this.
The "grab turn order" thing is kinda easy. I'll try to explain in no uncertain terms:
If there are two parties at war AND the war has lasted one turn (ie after the declaration turn has ended), the team that is supposed to move FIRST in the next turn has the undeniable right to FORFEIT his first turn, effectively giving the other party a double move, and grabbing the LAST TURN.
This scenario is true for every war turn after declaration. This can work also if there are several parties at war.
The important part is why, because this is the concern - specifically your team's concern - that we try to address. And if we know why we have this rule, it's much easier for the game admin to interpret in case any fringe cases occur:
A team that is not last in the turn order, and is in a position where he could be perpetually denied resources, can choose to be shuffled last in the turn order. The team takes the risk of a double move, and that he will be re-shuffled again the next turn.
I think this is the answer to all the concerns which had left before we can proceed with voting the ruleset
I like this but I would drop the 'and is in a position where he could be perpetually denied resources' part and add 'at its own discretion'.
101% The command to change orders its only available to web admin (thats me) just need to ask for it. If want you can start a test game of use the "warm up game" already rolling
The reason for this was that I foresee a scenario where you're at war with several parties, not last, nor first, but at war with someone that plays after you. Then you're in "position to be perpetually denied... etc."
But if you're not first, nor last, but all your adversaries are before you, then it doesn't really make sense to want to shuffle.
But how about this: You do it at your own discretion, but if several parties wants to shuffle in the same turn, the team that is closest to the start of the turn order gets the opportunity to shuffle. That's not too complicated, it doesn't need to be interpreted and, as the cost of shuffling actually is the risk of a double move against you, it's something that I don't foresee getting exploited.
I'm drafting a finalized proposal for this rule. Stand by.
That much was obvious, Boudicca of Zululand.
And here is a draft of a preamble ...
Spoiler My nic is Ruff and I endorse this message :
Please Note: This post is posted while wearing my official 'RB Rule Discussion' hat. The views, opinions and comments expressed in this post represent my views while wearing said hat. I am not authorized to bind RB to any decision, conclusion, concession or agreement that I might endorse while acting in this particular role. I am authorized to push forward the rule discussion.
Thank you, thank you. Please include something about when the request can be made, where and to whom.
@Magno_uy - can you completely reshuffle the war order?
@tobiasn - if that above question's answer is YES, then maybe the rule should allow multiple changes of order but with the teams closest to the top of the order having higher priority in claiming the last slot.
For easy access:
Ruleset proposed by Ruff, approved by CFC and RB (i think):
This is my personal proposal to the part of the rules that are heavily discussed - amalgam of several proposals:
This is my personal proposal for 2d:
Mod need this 2 extra rules, remember?
Again calling them A and B for brevity.
Turn order is A, B
B is denying A's resource
A demands a swap of turn orders
Turn order swap
Turn order B, A
(optional step) B does not want to double move, so skips turn (this is their only recourse within the mod, as the mod will end turn automatically)
A takes turn -- absolute turn order is preserved but relative turn order is swapped.
Proposal: A team at war may demand a turn order swap after 3 turns in their current turn order position. (The number 3 is arbitrary, if you want it higher or lower that's easily negotiable)
I will also put this before CFC to see if we can agree on it officially.
Separate names with a comma.