Russia First Look [Peter]

[Manifold]

Sorry, but this time I had to intervene. Rome was certainly NOT one of the most scientific Civ in all time. Surely, they had a very pronounced education. But romans were truly a militaristic and pragmatic society. The illusion of the roman society being a pinacle of science, litterature or medicine is created by them has several factors : today's education emphasis more on latin than greek (or anything else among ancient languages, which pushes students to read a lot of latin works ; the fact that in the middle ages people did not had access to the greek texts until the XVth century, latin and roman culture was still extremely strong, which somewhat passed on to us ;...

If you have knowledge in both greek and roman education you know that roman civilization was the next step in human development from the greek civilization. The greek culture, literature and science was more religious, the Romans were more realistic and pragmatic. Rome was in many points of the society very modern. They were adventurous and adaptable because of the different influences which they were exposed. That´s a very good situation for being a scientific Civ.

... Roman culture was completly outshined by greek culture, to the point that many roman scholars wrote in greek, which they saw as a better language. ....Even roman time scientifics, like Archimede, are of greek culture. So Rome as a scientific Rome (or even worse, cultural), I hope I'll never see it.

That could beside the point. But we talk about sciences and not culture, right?

Would you say the English culture like eating beans in the morning is completly outshined by 5th century Saxony berserker culture because the English speak their language? - No.
Following this thread there could be only ONE scientific Civ the inventors of the fire.

In Civ6 the development of society and technological applications is divided. So Rome remains the best scientific Civ in all time! - my opionion!

You are however right about Russia. It's scientific history lasts only for more less 60 years, which for a 500 year empire is not very much. If Russia becomes a scientific civ, it should be an ability attached to a soviet leader. But then again, I wouldn't like to see a soviet leader ... Maybe as you said, factories giving them a scientific bonus (if I remember correctly, factories giving science was a Civ V feature within the order ideology).

Thanks, all the longer I think about the Russian bonuses for trading routes... I guess they are good selected. They fit to Peter and his modernization efforts and also to the later relapse while focus on internal market and expansion in Siberia.

Rome was good at adapting but it was hardly a scientific powerhouse and medieval europe would beat it in every area eventually.

Si tacuisses, philosophus mansisses - silence is golden

Prometheus was a scientific powerhouse about we agree. Everyone after him was good at adapting.

Of course in the Civ game the progress and playing must go on. It would be very disappointing to stop the techtree for 1000 years or even take techs from the gamer away when he reaches the middle ages. That is a no-go. In the game mechanic it should pass over by lesser and simple non focus techs.

I mean that Caesars legions would have made hamburger meat from the swiss
pikemen 1000 years after the fall of Rome. And Roman legions showed at Masada how to siege a impregnable castle 1000 years before the fitting tech appears in the techtree of Civ6 .

Military advance like Roman pioneers, the turtle formation, enter bridges....could be shown as a tech in Civ games like knighthood.


Now back to education and topic please

If a artist and LH-creator could give Peter just a very long beard and a dusty Toga he would be perfectly go as Prometheus LH. The background with the ark fits ideal.

 

[local_hero]

I think Russia looks strong. Okay, the Lavra is strong because of it being early and a unique district. The extra tile seems like a very negligible bonus and worse... it's a really really boring bonus. Now to the good parts; I rate the additional tiles very highly and the tundra bonus is interesting. In every let's play I've seen yet, (in my mind) there has been too few tiles and the AI doesn't mind settling on your doorstep. And I hate that. The extra tiles will give you more breathing space to your cities.

Coastal tundra cities with sea resources will probably be very viable, but I will probably have to play the game to decide if it's "enough" to make inland tundra cities viable. But still cool, in civ 5, no civ had any incentive to settle this terrain. The Cossack looks solid, especially with the large territory Russian players will have and because I hadn't realised that mounted units can't move after attacking. I think that the Cossack will be better in "reality" than on paper.

And the LUA has gotten a lot of flak, but I think it looks okay at least. Don't know the numbers and it might be subject to balance changes but I don't get the argument that you have to be behind. I consistently ignore parts of the technology tree, but that doesn't mean I'm behind tech wise, often on the contrary. I just don't care about the sailing technology for a long time. But other's will research it, a game with Norway/England has potential to give some extra science. This will probably apply on the civics tree aswell.

 

[Kouvb593kdnuewnd]

But if you can grow that fast, and on top of that have a massive amount of faith generation, which can be used towards a faith victory, OR for great people generation or just getting your picks of religious bonuses, or both, which translates into pretty much any victory type you want, well, I don't see how Russia could be viewed as weak. Maybe the synergy and straight up bonuses aren't as jazzy, but the civ is strong.

Or national parks. Russia will likely have alot of territory which can bring in a massive amount of tourism with national parks.

 

[Iristi]

i also agree Russia looks strong, most people i read seem to think the UD is worthless, sure its doesent sound much, but combine that with early Pantioun, Aura with gives 1+ faith on tundra from Adjicent tiles of the holy district and the +1 faith and +1 production means Russia will be getting ALOT of faith, and with teochracy goverment russia can spend that on troops, and overall great people. also they may build these district in pretty much every city since it does not take up a slot for district.
also as most pleople tend to stay away from worthless tundra alot of space opens up for settling cities, wich can each have a district giving +1 food +1 prod+2 faith unimproved tiles. i think thats pretty good.
And Peters ability makes sure you dont lag behind to much while focusing on anything else then since and culture, as it gives both. gives you time to build settlers and unicuq districts instead of campuses and monuments.
wich i think is pretty great, its might not seem the best, but used right its very useful.

 

[Cyon]

Chinese leak confirms that it is 1 science/culture for every 3 tech/civic they have that you don't. Kind of hoped that it would be 1 for every 2. How often will they know 6 techs that you don't? Oh the leitet hand of thete is one science of culture powerhouse then you could send a lot of trade routes to them, and they will probably have theatre square and campus so thats 2 of culture and science as well.

Peter seems weak even if Russia seems quite strong. Does this mean that any future alternative Russian leader have to be equally weak?

 

[KrikkitTwo]

Chinese leak confirms that it is 1 science/culture for every 3 tech/civic they have that you don't. Kind of hoped that it would be 1 for every 2. How often will they know 6 techs that you don't? Oh the leitet hand of thete is one science of culture powerhouse then you could send a lot of trade routes to them, and they will probably have theatre square and campus so thats 2 of culture and science as well.

Peter seems weak even if Russia seems quite strong. Does this mean that any future alternative Russian leader have to be equally weak?

on the plus side it could be rounded up, and there are a lot of 'dead ends' you can leave.. particularly in the civic tree (you can reach the end and only research ~1/2 the tree)

 

[Monika TSarn]

I wonder if it might be worth it for Russia to simply avoid a bunch of techs just to profit from Peter's bonus. There are a bunch of dead ends you don't really have to research if you don't want to.
Ignore the 4 ship building techs until you need them for steam power. Ignore archery. Ignore Military Tactics (Pikeman). There, you have +2 science for a long time, and only loose some military options. Just use mostly heavy charriots, you want some of those leveldd up when you get your Cossacks.
The civics tree has dead ends as well - maybe the entertainment district thingy, naval tradition and the 4 military policies in the top line.

 

[stealth_nsk]

I wonder if it might be worth it for Russia to simply avoid a bunch of techs just to profit from Peter's bonus.

If the bonus is rounded up, you could avoid a single dead end tech to get permanent +1 science from foreign trade routes. Take Archery, for example. It doesn't open anything other than Archers. If you're not going for full-scale war before Medieval, you could completely skip it.

 

[ehecatzin]

I wonder if it might be worth it for Russia to simply avoid a bunch of techs just to profit from Peter's bonus. There are a bunch of dead ends you don't really have to research if you don't want to.
Ignore the 4 ship building techs until you need them for steam power. Ignore archery. Ignore Military Tactics (Pikeman). There, you have +2 science for a long time, and only loose some military options. Just use mostly heavy charriots, you want some of those leveldd up when you get your Cossacks.
The civics tree has dead ends as well - maybe the entertainment district thingy, naval tradition and the 4 military policies in the top line.

I think you have the right idea, to get the most of it, Russia should take very unusual research paths to ensure the bonus kicks in.