Russia First Look [Peter]

[Morningcalm]

I'm actually proud of Civfanatics for not endlessly critiquing a leader's character model for once.

That's because Peter the Great in Civ VI actually looks like Peter the Great in real life. You should be prouder of Firaxis' art team for not messing up a leader model for once.

 

[ehecatzin]

Russian bonuses seems OK to me. The only thing that i really don't like about is UD (and, maybe cossacks). I am very disappointed that lavra don't provide any defence bonuses. Historically, lavra and monasteries in medieval Russia played a role of fortresses. The largest ones were famous for their massive walls, which can protect people from nearby settelements when the territory were raided by nomads or enemies. Moscow, for instance, was surrounded by the network of monasteries, and they played significant roles at city defence: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Troitse-Sergiyeva_Lavra
So, i suggest to give lavra some defence bonuses to the city or to unit, located here

Yeah I agree, that's a good idea, I wouldn't go as far as it acting as an encampent, but it could add to the "wall HP" bar the city has. Or give defensive bonuses to units on it.

 

[shaglio]

I was getting more a Captain Hook vibe... specially with these ships behind.

That's exactly what my 5-year-old daughter said yesterday! But, alas, he has both of his hands.

 

[Gangrin]

That's exactly what my 5-year-old daughter said yesterday! But, alas, he has both of his hands.

But Captain Hook wasn't born with a hook on his hand, right? It kinda makes sense now. Peter during late part of his reign gets really tired of all this ruling thing, secretly builds himself a ship, stages his own death due to disease and goes on a last adventure, a second tour to Europe so to speak

 

[Manifold]

So, i suggest to give lavra some defence bonuses to the city or to unit, located here

That´s an excellent good idea and it fits to Russian history perfectly. Also some happiness bonus would be helpful in the tundra.

 

[Cobalt_Blue]

Ok i've just read 18 pages of you lot talking about this and like ONE person mentioned commercial districts or harbors. How?!

This is how I read their LUA: "Commercial hubs and harbors provide extra culture or science depending on which one you need more". Which sounds kind of awesome. The only time this is not useful is if you are completely destroying every other civ and need to be playing at a higher level or something in which case the extra wouldn't even make a difference.

Russia gets tons of free faith tiles and nearly free holy sites, leading to A TON OF FAITH. They also will build commercial districts and harbors all over, leading to A TON OF GOLD (which by the way they will spend considerably less of buying tiles, like potentially thousands less per city). While they are doing so, they completely fail to fall behind in culture or tech during this early period, and use their immense purchasing power to buy and upgrade units and buildings and like ALL the Great People they can handle with all their faith and gold.

They are basically the best economy civ and I think thats pretty fun and exciting, even if its not necessarily the strongest or most exciting way of playing for everyone here.

 

[SpaceCommunist]

That's because Peter the Great in Civ VI actually looks like Peter the Great in real life. You should be prouder of Firaxis' art team for not messing up a leader model for once.

I do think he felt a little bit stiff in animation, but hey, he's better than Chipmunk-Cheeks Roosevelt and Frog Eye Shang were before their models got changed.

But Captain Hook wasn't born with a hook on his hand, right? It kinda makes sense now. Peter during late part of his reign gets really tired of all this ruling thing, secretly builds himself a ship, stages his own death due to disease and goes on a last adventure, a second tour to Europe so to speak

In the Peter Pan book, it is said that Hook is not his real name, and that the revelation of his true identity would be catastrophic for the world.

Peter Romanov = Captain Hook confirmed?

 

[Gangrin]

Commercial hubs and harbors provide extra culture or science depending on which one you need more

Nobody mentions this because this is plain wrong. It provide science or culture based on yours and your neighbor's difference, not "what you need more". You want that sweet sweet science? Too bad, he is as backward as you, but here, have some culture! Also you gain that bonus only if you are trading with them, and if you are trading with them, you have less internal routs, therefore less food, production and roads between your cities - and tundra tiles bit low on food (and are you working them to gain your free faith, right?), so you have less population therefore less districts. And claims of being the best economy civ - Germany begs to differ

 

[SpaceCommunist]

Now that I think about it - why doesn't Peter get a boost related to navies and/or Harbors? That was sort of the other big thing he did during his rule, built up a navy and some nice warm water ports (St. Petersburg comes to mind) - heck, he's got a whole bunch of ships as part of his background instead of the classic Kremlin, surely that would imply a naval bonus as part of his ability?

But alas, that's not to be. It'll have to be saved for modding (along with a rehaul of the whole gosh-darned civ).

 

[Cobalt_Blue]

Nobody mentions this because this is plain wrong. It provide science or culture based on yours and your neighbor's difference, not "what you need more". You want that sweet sweet science? Too bad, he is as backward as you, but here, have some culture! Also you gain that bonus only if you are trading with them, and if you are trading with them, you have less internal routs, therefore less food, production and roads between your cities - and tundra tiles bit low on food (and are you working them to gain your free faith, right?), so you have less population therefore less districts. And claims of being the best economy civ - Germany begs to differ

If you've met several neighbors and built several early commercial hubs and they are ALL further behind on both science and culture than you, you have been playing several difficulty levels too easy. The point is that since you are developing trade first you would normally fall behind in culture and science, but you don't because you steal it from your neighbors.

Since you may have twice as many trade routes as your neighbors you can afford to spend some of them on external trade I think.

Germany gets lots of internal production. But Russia get the most purchasing power.

 

[Gangrin]

Since you may have twice as many trade routes as your neighbors you can afford to spend some of them on external trade I think.

Germany gets lots of internal production. But Russia get the most purchasing power.

Why? Where did "twice as many trade routes" come from? Just because Russia is encouraged to build commhubs? Well duh, Rome is encouraged as well. Spain is encouraged. Britain is encouraged (and even better at it because of cheap and free harbor). Germany is encouraged (AND have additional district atop of that, AND have cheap industrial district).

 

[jekke]

Those are beautiful images, and in general, the idea about lavras giving extra defense is outstanding!

 

[stealth_nsk]

I suddenly understood why I dislike idea of Russia having religious, not science district. I was thinking about the civilization which may get unique Campus replacement... and had no idea. Korea had some great scientific discoveries, but I don't know about any known "concentrated science" areas for them, etc. Akademgorodoks, on the other hand, are pretty known and pretty unique. And if you think about religious district replacement, Lavra is far from being the most known as there are Wats and a lot more.

 

[Zaarin]

I suddenly understood why I dislike idea of Russia having religious, not science district. I was thinking about the civilization which may get unique Campus replacement... and had no idea. Korea had some great scientific discoveries, but I don't know about any known "concentrated science" areas for them, etc. Akademgorodoks, on the other hand, are pretty known and pretty unique. And if you think about religious district replacement, Lavra is far from being the most known as there are Wats and a lot more.

Actually, Korea wouldn't be a bad choice for a unique campus.

 

[Thormodr]

Actually, Korea wouldn't be a bad choice for a unique campus.

There is no need, like Arabia, to perpetuate the myth of Korea being a scientific powerhouse by granting them any bonuses to science.

As an absolute stretch, perhaps if Wang Sejong were the leader you might possibly consider giving it as a leader ability. Hopefully they'll go with a different leader and a more accurate and appropriate ability.

 

[Zaarin]

There is no need, like Arabia, to perpetuate the myth of Korea being a scientific powerhouse by granting them any bonuses to science.

As an absolute stretch, perhaps if Wang Sejong were the leader you might possibly consider giving it as a leader ability. Hopefully they'll go with a different leader and a more accurate and appropriate ability.

I've lived in Korea; Korean science is not a myth. The Koreans have been and are brilliant scientists. But do tell us, who is worthy of a science related bonus? Actually, let me guess: the Mongols.

 

[Atlas627]

Actually, Korea wouldn't be a bad choice for a unique campus.

Thats one Campus. Doesn't make sense empire-wide. I still think the only candidate is the Maya with their Pyramid Complexes.

There is no need, like Arabia, to perpetuate the myth of Korea being a scientific powerhouse by granting them any bonuses to science.

As an absolute stretch, perhaps if Wang Sejong were the leader you might possibly consider giving it as a leader ability. Hopefully they'll go with a different leader and a more accurate and appropriate ability.

No Civ has been continuously a scientific powerhouse through the entirety of their existence. The best options are China (which has the Eureka benefit), India (which is busy with religion and food instead), Rome (which was all engineering and is represented as such), Greece (more philosophy and cultural advances), Russia (Westernization into modern era, which is represented), Korea (heavily confucian scholar based for most of their united period), Sweden (scientific revolution brought them onto the world stage, so its the only thing they've done), Arabia (trading with India and muslim universities), and then something like the Iroquois for adapting so quickly to foreigners.

So we already got China, Rome, and Russia scientific leanings represented. India and Greece have other focuses. Oh, wouldn't it be nice to have a science/religion combo? The only remaining one that makes sense is Arabia, and they make plenty of sense. The others certainly aren't vanilla Civs this time around.

 

[Thormodr]

I've lived in Korea; Korean science is not a myth. The Koreans have been and are brilliant scientists. But do tell us, who is worthy of a science related bonus? Actually, let me guess: the Mongols.

No need to be flippant and arrogant, thanks.

I lived in South Korea for over 6 years, myself and have studied Korean history extensively. Fascinating stuff.

With the 2,100 years of recorded Korean history, they for nearly all of it, have not been noted for their science. Perhaps for a brief flourish in the 15th century and the last few decades.

As for the Mongols, I certainly wouldn't classify them as a scientific civilization but they actively transmitted a fair amount of technology through their conquests to the Korean Peninsula which kickstarted the aforementioned 15th century brief scientific flourish. That includes the beloved Hangul script that was supposedly created out of thin air and has been claimed by Koreans to be the most scientifically accurate script in the world.

Anyway, I laid out solid reasoning for this six years ago when the last last iteration came out. Plus, this is off topic and is taking away from the well designed Russian Civ which definitely deserves the scientific focus.

 

[Zaarin]

Rome would actually be a pretty poor choice for a science civ, IMO. For one thing, they're far more significant for their infrastructure and rabid expansionism--which is exactly how they're represented in Civ6; for another, they tended to leech off the advancements of others rather than develop technology themselves (Etruscan city planning, Phoenician and Greek sailing, Celtic metallurgy, etc.). Russia likewise is far better suited for sapping others' science than science in its own right. I agree with the rest of your list, though, except you left out America, England, France, and Germany--all of whom are responsible for major advances in science, but who are also more interesting to focus on other aspects of their cultures.

I still think Korea is a good candidate for a unique campus (Confucian scholarship wasn't solely in the capital, after all), but I agree the Maya would be another. In fact, if I were to select one civ as science focused, it would certainly be the Maya (an excellent science/religion combo civ, in fact). Since both the Koreans and the Maya are inevitable additions, I'd be shocked if both didn't have science bonuses of some kind.

No need to be flippant and arrogant, thanks.

I lived in South Korea for over 6 years, myself and have studied Korean history extensively. Fascinating stuff.

With the 2,100 years of recorded Korean history, they for nearly all of it, have not been noted for their science. Perhaps for a brief flourish in the 15th century and the last few decades.

As for the Mongols, I certainly wouldn't classify them as a scientific civilization but they actively transmitted a fair amount of technology through their conquests to the Korean Peninsula which kickstarted the aforementioned 15th century brief scientific flourish. That includes the beloved Hangul script that was supposedly created out of thin air and has been claimed by Koreans to be the most scientifically accurate script in the world.

Anyway, I laid out solid reasoning for this six years ago when the last last iteration came out. Plus, this is off topic and is taking away from the well designed Russian Civ which definitely deserves the scientific focus.

Sorry, but it's hard not to be a little flippant when you dismiss established historiography for pet theories. As for Hangul, it is pretty unique as a featural alphabet; the only other writing system like it is Tolkien's tengwar. Yes, the shapes are based on Chinese script as are all East Asian writing systems, but Hangul is quite unique as far as writing systems go. As has already been pointed out, no civilization has been a scientific superpower throughout its entire existence, but since a flourishing of the sciences is characteristic of periods of both Arabia and Korea, both are excellent choices as scientific civs. Still, Korea as a culture powerhouse could be an interesting twist.

 

[Atlas627]

Rome would actually be a pretty poor choice for a science civ, IMO. For one thing, they're far more significant for their infrastructure and rabid expansionism--which is exactly how they're represented in Civ6; for another, they tended to leech off the advancements of others rather than develop technology themselves (Etruscan city planning, Phoenician and Greek sailing, Celtic metallurgy, etc.).

I consider those forms of science, but yes I agree. Their own advances were in Engineering, which tie in nicely with empire-building. So they might as well make the Civ about empire-building.

Russia likewise is far better suited for sapping others' science than science in its own right.

Right, though I would again call that appropriate for some sort of science mechanic.

I agree with the rest of your list, though, except you left out America, England, France, and Germany--all of whom are responsible for major advances in science, but who are also more interesting to focus on other aspects of their cultures.

I felt that these were so obviously more famous for other things that those should be used instead. However, it is fair to say that they could all have some sort of bonus to science.

I still think Korea is a good candidate for a unique campus (Confucian scholarship wasn't solely in the capital, after all), but I agree the Maya would be another. In fact, if I were to select one civ as science focused, it would certainly be the Maya (an excellent science/religion combo civ, in fact). Since both the Koreans and the Maya are inevitable additions, I'd be shocked if both didn't have science bonuses of some kind.

I think the Koreans should have a unique that gives science bonuses, but the problem with a District is that it needs to make sense as being the general location where other buildings go. The Hanseatic Kontor is a series of buildings, the Royal Navy Dockyard is a set of docks, the Lavra is a monastery complex, the Street Carnaval is a series of streets and buildings, and the Acropolis is an area where buildings can be placed. You might be able to get by with using a Korean Confucian Court of some sort, but those were so rare that it seems odd to have every city get one. I think it would make more sense to give them a Unique Improvement for a Confucian Pavilion or a Munmyo Confucian ancestral shrine.

On the other hand, the Mayans had a Pyramid Complex in every city, and it was the foundation of their architecture and culture. It fits so incredibly well that I can't see them not doing it. And I don't think they're going to have more than one UD per District type (or UB per Building).