S-02 Learning to Ride

[namliaM]

I asked Louis what he wanted to go to war with Hatty and here's his response. Bit expensive methinks.

Bribing an AI into war while you are not is very expensive... Try it again right after you declare war yourself, you should find that its much cheaper.

Not to many pikes around... Cossacks should not have to much trouble getting some more cities....

 

[mike p]

I'm after Kikinit, but it looks like Cosmichail was swapping with him and said he'd be available Monday, so I'll wait for him.

We should declare war now, and take over our entire continent with Cossacks. This will be our best window for conquest, so let's make it happen. Agree that once we declare we should probably bribe Loius to attack Hatty too. Once he's burned up most of his extra units, we can stab him too.

If the Cossacks don't take heavy losses, we should look at getting some Frigates out - if we have Chemistry. Five or so frigates and we can bombard coastal cities for even easier conquest.

This is longer term, but we should also think about declaring on Bismark once Loius is on the ropes. At some point switch London from Cossacks to Galleons. We simply won't be able to fight him once he gets Panzers. Planes and marines can do the trick, but we aren't building them.

 

[mike p]

I goofed and thought I was supposed to play S-02 instead of KK-04 this afternoon. So if Cosmichail wants back into the rotation, he can be next or just wait for his next natural turn. I thought about just waiting to see if his turns went as well and then posting this picture:


I think our war with Hatty ought to be ended now, actually. The last three cities she has on our continent are mostly ice and tundra anyway. IMO, we should turn on Loius now. He's probably researching Gunpowder for his UU and if we wait until he has Riflemen, we'll be screwed

The picture really says it all. Either I'm brilliant tactically or the Cossack is far too powerful. We did all that with 2 Cossacks killed.

A few things of interest:

Since we were in a Golden Age and Financial, our coast tiles were generating 2 Food and 4 Commerce, which meant I fired most of the specialists in Moscow, since the merchants and scientists are only generating 3 commerce equivalents. Slowed down our great people points, but we just ended up getting another crappy artist anyway.

I traded Education to Bismark for Guilds, his map and 90 Gold.

Researched Banking and Economics, but Hatty beat us by 3 turns to the Great Merchant. I'm pretty sure he died when Thebes was captured though, which makes me feel a little better.

Also bribed Louis with Philosophy to declare on Hatty. Which was a big waste of time. I had to keep taking more cities quickly to push back her border overlap or else he'd just be pillaging around all of our new cities.

Recommendations:

1. Make peace with Hatty now - she's willing to give us one of her crappy cities, but I wouldn't even take it.

2. Culture slider is up to deal with war weariness, peace means we can readjust.

3. Great Artist can be used to help discover Astronomy, but Bismark will trade Astronomy to us for Econ and Nationhood, and since Hatty has Econ, she'll probably start whoring it out since we have it too, so this should be done now, or it probably won't stay available at this price.

4. Reform up on Loius and kill him. I've been promoting all of our Cossacks along the Combat line exclusively (there's one chariot that I've upgraded that had Medic). I suggest for all of them we go up to Combat III, then March, which will keep them on the attack.

5. Once you think you have Cossacks enough for Louis, (which we would now, if we didn't have to garrison Egypt) declare on him and start a Navy for taking out Bismark.

 

[Kikinit]

Nice Mike. 8 cities in 10 turns was it? Shows the power of the cossack and 2 movement points. Our variant means we can't build cheap units to garisson in the cities so we'll have to either leave a single cossack in each one or leave them empty when we get peace.

I guess Hatty's old capital of Thebes would be where we want to put the Forbidden Palace once it's out of revolt and the rest probably need some courthouses if they lost them during their taking.

 

[Cosmichail]

I can wait for my natural turn. Great job Mike. I love the cossacks too and they pretty much chew up everything in their way.

 

[sooooo]

That picture is hilarious Mike. 8 cities in 10 turns, not bad at all. I really thought this variant was going to be tough, in fact I doubted if it was possible. Maybe catherine wasn't the wisest choice of leader. We are the only financial leader left and have the broken cossacks.

Cosmichail is up and Asperge is on deck.

Cosmichail - UP
Kikinit
mike p - Just Played
Asperge - On Deck
blid
sooooo

 

[angeleyes]

I didn't doubt we should win this game, but could it be with domination or conquest i was not sure.
What are we going for: domination or conquest?
I propose conquest with only Cossacks!
The other AI's are ways off from rifle's.
This war was indeed an enormous difference with the bloody english war.
Not one of Hatshepsut's city's was build on a hill, that made it a lot easier (-50% Longbows).
I would take that furs-city from Hatsy, with market is 2 extra
Get Astronomy from Bis for Lib and Economics. He also has ivory, why not give him horses?

 

[Cosmichail]

Ok this is "got it" and will play later today. I also like the fact we got the GL too.

Mike suggests we settle for peace. (DOH I missed out on all the fun) and not bother with Hatty's city. Asperge feels we should take it for the fur.

Do we leave Hatty some cities in the wastelands for now and go for Louis. I personally always love taking that guy out. He has backstabbed me more than once in SP games.

I agree we get Astronomy from the Bismarck. Now he would have been fun to play as and get those Panzers. Those puppies rock too with that 50% bonus against armor. I like the trade idea too Asperge so he can build lots of cavalry so we can have them for breakfast with our Cossacks.

 

[sooooo]

Can't look at the save right now, but I doubt you'll have missed all the fun Cosmichail. From Mike's report it seems we don't need many cossacks to take cities out so you might be able start the french war. Definitely trade for astronomy and build frigates and galleons.

 

[Kikinit]

I fear that we might not have enough units to spare to take out Louis and still garrison Hatty's cities. Should we just raze the rest of her cities we can get too first while we build up a few more units to take out Louis?

 

[mike p]

Hatty is willing to give us one city for peace (Avaris, I believe). IRRC that city has furs one tile from its center, so we will likely control the furs right off the bat - just check the culture of the nearest city to make sure it isn't overlapping. We can have our peace and our furs.

Off the top of my head, if we garrison each of those cities I took, there will be about 9-10 surplus Cossacks available to smash the French. You might want a turn or two to heal and regroup. Once we get them March promotions we'll really be able to take cities quickly.

I recommend Loius, then the Germans. Saladin and Toku are further behind in techs and if we're going for conquest instead of domination, we should save them for last.

Also, take a look at the island where we have marble, and where the Eqyptian capital is. If we leave things alone there, Egypt will probably end up by culture with the German city and the Arabian one, containing the Islamic holy site. The holy city is generating no culture because Saladin isn't Islamic. Not too often you see a holy city flip!

Of course, if you decide to continue the war with Egypt, upgrade those two horse archers on the island and take out their capital!

We need ships. I think trading for Astronomy is probably a good idea.

 

[angeleyes]

I recommend Loius, then the Germans. Saladin and Toku are further behind in techs and if we're going for conquest instead of domination, we should save them for last.

What's it gonna be, conquest or domination, let's take a decision now. I vote for conquest.

 

[Cosmichail]

second that vote for conquest..

playing now and posting shortly..

 

[blid]

I am fine with conquest. Never had one in an SG, so this is good chance.
During the war with Louis. A couple cities shoud focus on galleons and frigates. We need more frigates than normal game to get cities foritifications down faster

 

[mike p]

London has the Heroic Epic, and is coastal. It should be able to spit out ships like crazy. It also one of our nearest cities to Germany and furthest from France, so geographically, that makes sense too.

If we're going for Conquest then we should stop building things like temples, start building Cossacks and ships everywhere and just use the cultural slider when WW gets out of hand. It's not like we need to research any stronger units.

 

[Cosmichail]

@Mike I felt that too with London but wanted to get some cossacks going and we have to traverse around our landmass from there to get to Louis's coastal cities. So I built/whipped one in Alex for Lyons. I feel Moscow is better suited for distance than London. We can't get by on the western side due to ice border limitation.

I am finding though that we really don't need many of those frigates because the odds are still pretty favorable with the Cossacks and only lost one.

I will post the report later as I have time constraints right this moment but have to play at home because that's the only place I have civ 4. I am leaving again shortly and won't be back until midday tomorrow. So I will post the report where I am staying later on tonight.

Bottom line we started the war on France and did get our furs. Traded for Astronomy and traded horses for ivory as suggested by Asperge which I thought is a great idea since Cossacks have Cavalry for breakfast. Let him build them away and we will have some fun. Oh yeah baby....

I upgraded a Cossack or two to march but one is stuck near what is left of Egypt to fight off what Louis had there. We have taken Tours and Marseille, Rouen is about to fall as well as Lyons. One frigate is near coastal cities and another is at Chartres already. We have one frigate (built in Alex) to start bombard on Lyons but Cossacks will take it out probably before then.

I don't think it will take much to finish Louis off he is till messing around with maces/lbm's. Pikeman hurt a bit but not enough to take out Cossacks.

Current save

 

[blid]

Cosmichail, I think we were referring to frigates for the german war. Planning too much ahead I guess with the french war not even started
Anyway, good to hear that the french compaign is going well

 

[sooooo]

Nice progress. Looks like Lyons will fall next turn then we'll be able to capture the Orleans, the Jewish holy city, for lots of shrine money.

We can (and should) leave the smaller cities without garrisons. For example Hieraconopolis is size 4 and has a 16 hapiness cap and is garissoned by a combat 3 cossack who could be on the front line. Same with Giza, Memphis, Alexandria etc. Also there are spare horse archers in Nottingham and Novgorod that can release a cossack each.

Also note that Tokugawa has a defensive pact - never seen that before.

I think Cosmichail only played 9 turns, but I'm going to hand it over to asperge here.

Cosmichail
Kikinit
mike p
Asperge - UP
blid - On Deck
sooooo

 

[Cosmichail]

Soooo

The cossacks in Hier are probably enroute or healing from an attack. Giza, Memphis, Alex were under threat from Louis's troops so I didn't want to leave them empty until the threat was removed. I believe that it is no longer so yes they can move now. Good point about moving the harchers into other cities to release the cossacks. I was in a hurry and was surprised at how much MMing (workers/city popups) which added to the overall time factor. I started with Turn 0 did all the negotiating so I must have counted from there. I did realize it when I uploaded the save but just had to get going and would have love to taken than last turn as another two cities would have fallen.

That's why I didn't mind just going with the natural turn again as usually I like to take my time playing but hate keeping people waiting. I have to say this is a wonderful team that keeps the game moving very well. I wish all the SG's were like that as in another have players saying "got it" and then disappear for 3 days.

 

[namliaM]

That's why I didn't mind just going with the natural turn again as usually I like to take my time playing but hate keeping people waiting. I have to say this is a wonderful team that keeps the game moving very well. I wish all the SG's were like that as in another have players saying "got it" and then disappear for 3 days.

I love keeping a flow too, if there is to long between sets you lose "cohesion" as a team I think...