"Safety" a different approach to Culture-mechanic

[Refar]

The searchlights can be done, the lightning effect will however be not, or barely visible - as you pointed out previously - we allways have day in civ. Fire cen be better seen at day.

However, as your idea assumed electric light rather than fire... Maybe some odd neon light construction - like some old neon store-signs etc. put together to a "monumental" light-sighn.

It would be similar to the Broadway building - the neon there is not very stiking, but noticeable.

 

[davidlallen]

The searchlights can be done, the lightning effect will however be not, or barely visible - as you pointed out previously - we allways have day in civ. Fire cen be better seen at day.

However, as your idea assumed electric light rather than fire... Maybe some odd neon light construction - like some old neon store-signs etc. put together to a "monumental" light-sighn.

It would be similar to the Broadway building - the neon there is not very stiking, but noticeable.

Neon sounds interesting. The rocknroll building also looks neon. I have seen, but not investigated, the jedi knights units which must also have this effect type. Not quite sure what the building would actually look like. Maybe a big arrow pointing down, says "Aliens look here"?

 

[Refar]

A bit of a odd idea, but might work...

I could take the Statue of Liberty or Colossus or maybe the lower parts of the Eiffel Tower (Or basicly any other somehow recognizeable shape). Strip the plating, keeping only the "skeleton frame", then attach the lights to that frame.

So - if it turns out the way i hope it too - you could still recongnize the monumetn but it would be obviously rebuild or at least "redecorated".

 

[davidlallen]

A bit of a odd idea, but might work...

I could take the Statue of Liberty or Colossus or maybe the lower parts of the Eiffel Tower (Or basicly any other somehow recognizeable shape). Strip the plating, keeping only the "skeleton frame", then attach the lights to that frame.

So - if it turns out the way i hope it too - you could still recongnize the monumetn but it would be obviously rebuild or at least "redecorated".

Sounds interesting. Speaking of Statue of Liberty / Eiffel Tower, or any big modern wonder, I had thought about a unique item you find in the ruins -- a ruined wonder. Rebuilding it, which would require a lot of worker time, would give you a big bonus. But a "ruined statue of liberty" model might be hard, and plus we have the problem you and others have pointed out with a valuable item which is only available in one place -- non-adjacent players would not have a chance to fight over it.

Less practical is the idea of finding a ruined statue of liberty and loading it onto a truck, to rebuild it in your own city. Then I need a unique truck graphic, but at least the graphic for what it looks like when it's installed in the city is already there.

 

[Refar]

It would have to be a big truck too

 

[Jabie]

A possibility would be to rename "Creative" to something safety related - then the bonus could stay. The Fast Buildings might need adjustment tho. But this is just a fast shot - as i said i did not think of it before.

Or get rid of creative and use protective instead.

 

[davidlallen]

As I posted earlier in the thread, I already got rid of spiritual and philosophical, I'd rather brainstorm about a useful way to keep creative. Or some new trait, maybe, which would have the safety bonus, rather than adding it onto protective.

 

[The_Coyote]

why not still use creative, it´s all a question what you call creative, or?
How about creative in building traps, early warnings systems, creative in getting the populations of a city to make patrols (or better patrols), creative in creating stories which reduce the probability of an attack (build faster a reputation which reduces the barbarian is the area), creative in including the barbarians in the population of the town and therefore increasing safety, etc... Only some ideas

 

[thomas.berubeg]

But a "ruined statue of liberty" model might be hard, and plus we have the problem you and others have pointed out with a valuable item which is only available in one place -- non-adjacent players would not have a chance to fight over it.

I really don't think that this is a problem... I mean, in FFH, there are a bunch of unique features that only really benefit one person(the one who is nearest... it adds to the randomness of the game; you wouldn't want the game to get repetitive, right? it's these small touches which keep (at least my) interest in the game...)

 

[davidlallen]

I don't play FFH, but I assume these features have relatively low power, and there are a number of different possible ones. That seems fine, and Fury Road has a few of those today like the ultra-light fighter ("The Pilot" unit). I'd like to add more of those, and westamastaflash has suggested a few good ones.

The original post was about game-winning class units found in one ruin only, which seems to be more of a problem unless it's a scenario map which guarantees everybody access.

Actually, viewed as a scenario, that might be interesting. The punk units are here to support it. The NextWar mechs or the dreadnaught land unit from NecroCristi might work as the target unit. I'm not sure the AI would "get it", though.

 

[thomas.berubeg]

not all are low power... one is similar to this idea: when a unit reaches level 15, it can enter a (previously unpassable) tile and receives the very powerful unit sitting there. that tile is placed randomly, and isn't in every game... and it is only in one location...

 

[The_Coyote]

i like the safety idea, had an idea for an addition. No idea if its possible. When a city is founded it can get safety from one unit (+1 or +2), building don´t give safety direct buildings (perhaps walls as execption, but buildings could give mainly a safety bonus), but allow a certain number of units to create safety (eg barracks allow 3 units to give safety), the great protector gives also safety. If a city grows to a new level, a certain base safety is necessary to hold the level, is the produced safety is too low, the safety level can fall again. The idea behind this, units on patrol and as guards give safety, no units => no safety, with certain building supporting them (eg radio tower, faster communications with the patrols)

something like this: so a newly founded city with two defenders would get +1 safety from one unit, building baracks it would allow both units to give safety, resulting +2 safety, monument +50%, so this town would get 2 + 50% = 3 safety. Growing one safety level would mean a upkeep of 5, so this city would need another defender or building (the figures were only examples)

no idea how hard it will be to code, to balance and if the AI will understand it but it would force the player to defend all cities, not only the threathen border cities

 

[davidlallen]

When a city is founded it can get safety from one unit (+1 or +2), building don´t give safety direct buildings (perhaps walls as execption, but buildings could give mainly a safety bonus), but allow a certain number of units to create safety (eg barracks allow 3 units to give safety), the great protector gives also safety. If a city grows to a new level, a certain base safety is necessary to hold the level, is the produced safety is too low, the safety level can fall again.

If I understand correctly, you suggest that a city's safety level could fall if it doesn't keep enough units on patrol. This would force a player to keep units back at their interior cities. It's an interesting idea; in the vanilla game culture never falls. One possible way to model this is with "negative safety bombs". In the vanilla game, you can use up a great artist to give a one-time +4000 culture bonus. Maybe if something bad happens, such as a punk pillaging an improvement or an animal rampaging in the countryside, it should
cause a one-time say -500 safety penalty. I guess the size of the penalty should depend on what your safety level is, no point in crippling your new colony with a -500 penalty.

 

[davidlallen]

As I posted earlier in the thread, I already got rid of spiritual and philosophical, I'd rather brainstorm about a useful way to keep creative. Or some new trait, maybe, which would have the safety bonus, rather than adding it onto protective.

Courtesy of "synonyms.com", I believe I will rename Creative to Vigilant.

Apart from the Rangers Guild which can be built by the Great Protector, what other buildings are needed for a safety victory? Whichever buildings we add, should also get 2x production speed for Vigilant leaders.

 

[Refar]

There was a "Town Militia" building in my original concept, which is not in the game yet. I assumed it however to be rather cheap, so getting it half price is not that big.

From my experimants to move for Safety victory i think we need at least one more +50% multiplier building - i do not have a good idea as of yet however.
And perhaps one or two more Protector slots as well (Tho i am not sure yet, where i would get the food from to run those, even if i had the slots, but that is what makes the game interesting.)

 

[davidlallen]

(partial double post)

 

[davidlallen]

Town Militia: +1 shield, +1 XP for new units. +1 shield per 10% safety. Can turn 1 Citizen into Protector.

Oh, I misunderstood/missed that before. But, that makes three XP-generating buildings with garage and barracks. Do you think that will be a problem? I can put this off administration or maybe off Diplomacy, since Civic Projects is pretty crowded.

For the ranger guild, I will use the Castle, or maybe Citadel, for now.

There is the Culture Truck (which I will have to retitle "Safety Truck"), but you can't rely on that because it is random. I am thinking to make the Industrious trait give double the percent chance to find something in the ruins, since there aren't many wonders to be built.

One other poster, countjackula, suggested redrawing Stonehenge, built out of rusted cars. It's a cool image. That could be a wonder, off Engines(?!), but giving it a +percent shield seems like an odd mapping.

Can anybody suggest other good building concepts for +shield and +percent shield?

 

[Refar]

I don't think XP generating buildings are a problem - we have some unique Promotions in the game, which do have some impact. For now mostly on the UTE, but if it prooves fun, more might come, so there should be more different upgrade paths.

On Town Milita - part of the reason why i had not put it inmyself was not having seeing a good tech. There was talk about a Tech tree expansion in the future, so maybe we can postpone the militia untill then.

To Industrious - i would prefer more wonders, that can be build instead of higher chance to pop something in ruins. I am sure many players will miss Wonders.
I know there is a small hinch there - artwork... But this is something that can be - at least to a part - helped.

The car Stone Henge is really cool - i seen the idea before and put it on my list, but did not get to it yet.

 

[Jabie]

I like the sound of car-henge. There's a bit in the Iron Giant where the beatnik is making sculptures in the scrapyard which might be worth looking at here.

As for buildings which increase safety, surely a Sheriff's Office and Jail would provide citizens with a greater feeling of safety.

 

[Refar]

I think Sheriffs Office ~ Town Militia is about the same for that matters. Both names are fine.

Jail might be worht a thought, but as said in previous post - we mignt need to put a tech tree expansion before adding more buildings, as it is just too crowded right now.