I'd bring point 4 softly, like "wouldn't it be more efficient if one of us focussed on gold while the other focussed on research", instead of saying straight up "we want your money ".
What would we plan to research next if it was all up to ourselves? (Could I get a screenshot of the tech tree?)
Civil Service (need maths from Saturn, very expensive)
Construction (need maths from Saturn)
Polythemism (why?)
Compass (why?)
Horseback Riding (Maybe later)
Philosophy (er...)
Gift gold to Saturn to speed research of fuedalism.
I think Calendar next is wisest, we can get the two sugars in JD hooked up and running, increasing the food per turn generated there to 8 fpt, so it'll grow very fast. When we remove the two workers from OO, and bring back one of the workers from the east, we'll have 4 workers to quickly lay down cottages and chop jungle, so growth there is of the utmost importance, getting ready for bureaucracy and the palace build. It also helps Saturn with another happy resource.
If we could trade for calendar I'd be willing to, but it would depend on the offer. It definately isn't worth MC, IMO. Probably worth currency, but I suspect that is the tech that Cav are researching.
Nope, if we trade it, they don't have to research it. It costs something like 500 base beakers to the other teams to research (500 beakers before boni are applied), and it leads to Cavs UU, a UU which we want to keep away from them for as long as possible, because we'll have to split our army to deal with any possible boatings.
So if we were to trade MC, now that we have an ally I'd want an equivalent cost tech, probably Aesthetics and Literature after the GL has been built and it's been traded around, otherwise we don't actually gain anything from a tech trade.
Memphus:
if i was them i would call the bluff (being confident in gettign feud) Chris says (15:40):
We need to speak to Saturn and get them to email Kaz asap then Memphus says (15:41):
and say what? Chris says (15:41):
That they are screwed either way
If Kaz gets Angle, and bombs that area:
Chris says (15:42):
Saturn will end up with land borders against Cav Kaz and possible MS
We can't support them without galleys
and when Cav gets Carricks we'll both be surrounded, and then we'll both die
So they are best served by having Kaz back off
Chris says (15:43):
and they can best achieve that by telling Kaz to back off or no Fued
And then we talk about war clause article 3
about how we consider it a preemptive attack to defend ourselves
and we don;t want them to trade fued
Chris says (15:44):
All we need is 10 turns
and we'll have both cities down, a longbow and spear down there
I think we need to send it asap. Doesn't matter if it's rough, just add in that we can chat with them about it asap if they want.
As part of our alliance, we're informing you of a potential situation with Kaz. One of their chariots turned up (this turn) next to a barb city halfway between our civs that we have been staking out with a bunch of axes. As you can imagine, things are a little tense atm between us.
Our problem is that we can't afford to let them have that city site. If they get it, then we will be hemmed into our peninsula, and will not have a land route to you, whereas they will be able to expand into a vast quantity of land and ultimately will grow into your lands.
Combined with us being unable to support you (we will only be able to reach you by galleys), and Cavs Carricks that are capable of boating both of us, giving them that city site is completely unacceptable to us, and maybe to you.
So we have sent them an ultimatum (see attached letter below).
We hope to convince you to take an aggressive position with them regarding Feudalism; preferably something along the lines of telling them to back off and accept our claims, or they don't get Feudalism. Without Feudalism, we would not have too much trouble dealing with them militarily, but with feud they would most likely be able to eventually beat us.
We would like to chat with you about this situation so we can discuss it more thoroughly, but the above should give you the basic overview of our position.
SANCTA Red dawn is nearby
Growing crops or painting blood
Cooperation
Spoiler:
Namaste Donsig,
The Ninjas salute the Great Nation of Kazakhstan.
We have just sighted your chariot in the centerish area – you’ve probably caught sight of our axemen on the hills North and West of you.
What you can’t see (yet), is that there is a size one barbarian town there, another axeman just beyond your line of sight, and a 4th axeman only a few turns away. As evidenced by this commitment of forces, this city is of strategic importance to us. We’d already be garrisoning it, but the ridiculous barbarian governor has apparently put a low priority on food and we’re waiting for the city to grow so we can capture it.
The sudden appearance of your chariot has therefore caused no small amount of consternation among the Ninjas. I won’t lie to you – this letter is an effort by the calmer members of the ruling council to prevent an ugly little war that I’m sure neither of us want.
I really don’t want to threaten you – or just ask for a favor –but the team is ready to switch to HBR and go to full out war mode as they have had their sights on Angle for a very long time. If it wasn't for my current role as Daimyo of State, this letter wouldn't even be on it's way.
In exchange for your cooperation, I’m willing to offer you a documented treaty that we won’t found any cities (or capture further barbarian ones) south of the location in dispute… but I’ll need a quick response from you to avoid holding up the game / having the Ninjas vote for something rash in lieu of being able to sell them on a peaceful option.
Can I count on you for a quick response?
Best,
General_W, Daimyo of State, SANCTA
Rapid note at morn
Hasten to avoid warfare
Two paths doth unfold
I would suggest replacing "small mishap" with "potential situation", and rewording the fifth paragraph:
We hope to convince you to take an aggressive position with them regarding feudalism; preferably something along the lines of telling them to back off and accept our claims, or they don't get feudalism. Without feudalism, we would not have too much trouble dealing with them militarily, but with feud they would most likely be able to eventually beat us.
Wrote this before I saw Krill’s proposal.
I added in a bit of his stuff – but I’d still like to offer my version for rapid release to Saturn.
Dear Saturn Allies,
The Ninja’s salute our new brothers!
Thanks for your response on the treaty. We’d be happy to help you draft you own seal, if you’d like? We’ve attached a sample and would be happy to customize it for you based on your feedback.
Regardless, we consider the treaty official and are very excited to be working with you.
Of course, no sooner is the ink dry on the alliance than our first challenge flares up! As you can see here:
The Kazakhs have a chariot that just showed up to the South of the barbarian city of Angle. This city is of enormous strategic importance to both of us… if team Kazakhstan captured this location and used a great artist to culture bomb it, we’d lose the ability to seal off the south from attack (for both of us).
We’d also lose our land route to you, and any military help would have to go slowly over galleys. Finally – getting this location would open up whole new areas of settlement to Kaz, and make them far more powerful than they already are.
Kaz would be able to threaten both of our southern cities… and combined with naval help from their allies, we could both be in very big trouble.
We quickly snapped off the following letter to Kaz:
Spoiler:
Namaste Donsig,
The Ninjas salute the Great Nation of Kazakhstan.
We have just sighted your chariot in the centerish area – you’ve probably caught sight of our axemen on the hills North and West of you.
What you can’t see (yet), is that there is a size one barbarian town there, another axeman just beyond your line of sight, and a 4th axeman only a few turns away. As evidenced by this commitment of forces, this city is of strategic importance to us. We’d already be garrisoning it, but the ridiculous barbarian governor has apparently put a low priority on food and we’re waiting for the city to grow so we can capture it.
The sudden appearance of your chariot has therefore caused no small amount of consternation among the Ninjas. I won’t lie to you – this letter is an effort by the calmer members of the ruling council to prevent an ugly little war that I’m sure neither of us want.
I really don’t want to threaten you – or just ask for a favor –but the team is ready to switch to HBR and go to full out war mode as they have had their sights on Angle for a very long time. If it wasn't for my current role as Daimyo of State, this letter wouldn't even be on it's way.
In exchange for your cooperation, I’m willing to offer you a documented treaty that we won’t found any cities (or capture further barbarian ones) south of the location in dispute… but I’ll need a quick response from you to avoid holding up the game / having the Ninjas vote for something rash in lieu of being able to sell them on a peaceful option.
Can I count on you for a quick response?
Best,
General_W, Daimyo of State, SANCTA
Not only did we want to keep you in the loop – but we’re hoping you could help us pressure Kaz into not starting a war over this location.
Specifically, (if you’re willing) we think it would add a lot of pressure if you told them that the Ninja’s had contacted you about this issue, and you’ve agreed that the location should go to us. If Kaz starts a war over it – you’ll cancel the trade of Feudalism to them.
Not only should that help us secure the location – it’ll also make any fighting with them much easier if we don’t have to worry about them getting Longbows.
As you saw in the letter, we’ve got a lot of axemen down there – but if they send a longbow and settler, they can get there before us (due to their closer proximity) and we would be out of luck.
What do you think? Are you willing to get aggressive with them on this issue with us?
Please don’t hesitate to write with any questions. We’d like to coordinate diplomacy on this with you, but we had to send at least our initial letter asap due to the very crunched time frame on this.
Your Allies,
General_W, Daimyo of State, SANCTA
First winds of the storm
United strength to oppose
Stronger in the end
We can't send screenshots; it's against the rules. Most of the paragraph beneath it needs to be completely rewritten because of it.
Actually most of the stuff beneath the screenshot is phrased badly for us.
It states that that area is closer to Kaz; we don't know that, so we should be vague there. Angle is 14 tiles from IS. Blocker is 10 tiles. We should at most say it is equidistant.
It doesn't state the threat of the lack of the land route strongly enough: as soon as optics is researched we are both on our own. and both of us can get 2v1'd.
It doesn't state that Saturn will end up with land borders with Kaz instead of us.
Oh crud – I always forget about that rule with screenshot trading. So stupid imo.
Ok – how about we just take your letter, and add in the stuff about the alliance from my letter?
I think we need to cover that friendly stuff before going straight into the problem with Kaz.
Here’s version 2:
Dear Saturn Allies,
The Ninja’s salute our new brothers!
Thanks for your response on the treaty. We’d be happy to help you draft you own seal, if you’d like? We’ve attached a couple samples and would be happy to customize it for you based on your feedback.
Regardless, we consider the treaty official and are very excited to be working with you.
As part of our alliance, we're informing you of a potential situation with Kaz. One of their chariots turned up (this turn) next to a barb city halfway between our civs that we have been staking out with a bunch of axes. As you can imagine, things are a little tense atm between us.
Our problem is that we can't afford to let them have that city site. If they get it, then we will be hemmed into our peninsula, and will not have a land route to you, whereas they will be able to expand into a vast quantity of land and ultimately will grow into your lands.
Combined with us being unable to support you (we will only be able to reach you by galleys), and Cavs Carricks that are capable of boating both of us, giving them that city site is completely unacceptable to us, and maybe to you.
So we have sent them an ultimatum. Here it is:
Spoiler:
Namaste Donsig,
The Ninjas salute the Great Nation of Kazakhstan.
We have just sighted your chariot in the centerish area – you’ve probably caught sight of our axemen on the hills North and West of you.
What you can’t see (yet), is that there is a size one barbarian town there, another axeman just beyond your line of sight, and a 4th axeman only a few turns away. As evidenced by this commitment of forces, this city is of strategic importance to us. We’d already be garrisoning it, but the ridiculous barbarian governor has apparently put a low priority on food and we’re waiting for the city to grow so we can capture it.
The sudden appearance of your chariot has therefore caused no small amount of consternation among the Ninjas. I won’t lie to you – this letter is an effort by the calmer members of the ruling council to prevent an ugly little war that I’m sure neither of us want.
I really don’t want to threaten you – or just ask for a favor –but the team is ready to switch to HBR and go to full out war mode as they have had their sights on Angle for a very long time. If it wasn't for my current role as Daimyo of State, this letter wouldn't even be on it's way.
In exchange for your cooperation, I’m willing to offer you a documented treaty that we won’t found any cities (or capture further barbarian ones) south of the location in dispute… but I’ll need a quick response from you to avoid holding up the game / having the Ninjas vote for something rash in lieu of being able to sell them on a peaceful option.
Can I count on you for a quick response?
Best,
General_W, Daimyo of State, SANCTA
We hope to convince you to take an aggressive position with them regarding Feudalism; preferably something along the lines of telling them to back off and accept our claims, or they don't get Feudalism. Without Feudalism, we would not have too much trouble dealing with them militarily, but with feud they would most likely be able to eventually beat us.
We would like to chat with you about this situation so we can discuss it more thoroughly, but the above should give you the basic overview of our position.
What do you think? Are you willing to get aggressive with them on this issue with us?
Please don’t hesitate to write with any questions. We’d like to coordinate diplomacy on this with you, but we had to send at least our initial letter asap due to the very crunched time frame on this.
Your Allies,
General_W, Daimyo of State, SANCTA
First winds of the storm
United strength to oppose
Stronger in the end
We hope to convince you to take an aggressive position with them regarding Feudalism; preferably something along the lines of telling them to back off and accept our claims, or they don't get Feudalism. Without Feudalism, we would not have too much trouble dealing with them militarily, but with feud they would most likely be able to eventually beat us.
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".
If it wasn't for my current role as Daimyo of State, this letter wouldn't even be on it's way.
send it off.
