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I am desperate for some help with my recent game. It's my first try at Cultural Victory. Now I'm usually a warmonger and can gather a continent-size empire, so I am inexperienced with micromanaging my culture, commerce and scientific output for such a small empire. I started the game thinking if I could grab every wonder and every religion, I could achieve this easily. I was dead wrong :blush:

Here's my situation. It's 1441 AD right now. I have constructed an impressive amount of wonders in each of my 3 cities. I founded all of the religions except Buddhism (damn you Isabella). I sort of neglected building as many religious shrines as I could since I had to keep rebuilding my military to keep Tokagawa off my ass. And I, idiotically, forgot to beeline for Liberalism.

I eventually constructed those shrines and researhed Liberalism. However, I find myself now falling behind in researching techs. My cities culture is not looking good. Yet, I do believe there is time to win. So if you have advice or tips, it would be much appreciated :D

Large, Continents, Marathon, Noble, Gandhi:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/54994/Ghandi_AD-1441.CivWarlordsSave
 
i am not an expert by any means. i do like cultural victories, and i like to MM my cities. i play mine very differently from yours, i've never tried it on a map with so many civs or with only 3 cities. obviously that means i'm certainly not at all qualified to judge if your game is winnable at this point. so, this is somewhat generic advice. but i do have some thoughts from looking at your save.

you do indeed have a lot of wonders. but some are hurting you way more than they're helping. your great person points are very very mixed. bombay's chance of a great artist is 19%, delhi's at 7% and madras is at 0. for a culture victory i try to get as many great artists as i can. if they come early, i settle them, but as the game gets later i just keep them around to culture bomb so that all 3 cities hit legendary as near in time as possible.

i'd run very different civics than you have atm. representation rather than US, bombay has 2 towns but that's all you have so far, so the extra hammer isn't worth much, and you don't have the money to be buying a lot with gold. i'd be in mercantilism rather than decentralization, just for the free specialist. but, you don't have drama yet, so you can't build theatres to assign artists. that's not a problem since i'd 100% use caste system rather than serfdom. your empire is small, your workers don't have much to do, and the ability to assign as many artists as you can afford to feed (without even building a theatre) is valuable both for culture points and for the artist GPPs. running rep adds to this since each specialist gets 3 beakers. and you have sistine chapel yay, so you get 2 culture for each one too.

delhi is running five priests. unless you really need those hammers, turning them into artists would really help the GA probability, switch the merchants too when you can afford to do that. the culture (and gold) from the holy city shrines is nice but you don't want to get too many great prophets. you have to spend a lot of hammers and time making missionaries to spread them around the globe to earn the gold, and if you use more than 3 cities (see below) then not all of your shrines would be in your big 3 culture grabbers anyway.

i've never tried to do it with only 3 cities, altho i know it's possible. with your map that cramped, you didn't have much choice. but the absolute key to my culture victories has been building the major religious buildings (christian cathedral, buddhist stupa, etc). you need to have 3 temples of that religion for each one you build (varies by map size). with only 3 cities, you're going to be limited to just one for each of your 6 religions, so think carefully where to place them. each is worth 50% culture, they're amazing. oops i do see that you have 2 in bombay already, so you knew about those. and you're working on missionaries to make sure all of your cities get each of your 6 religions, that's important too.

i try to use 6 cities for my culture victories, 3 that look good for culture and 3 spares. 2 of the spares can be so-so, they exist to build me temples to be able to build 2 cathedrals/etc (or 3 if on a small map that requires only 2 temples per) and to help with gold/science. i use the best of the spare cities to be my Great Artist farm. have a lot of food there and with caste you can run a ton of artists. ideally you have enough production there to build the wonders that give GA points. with enough food, after a certain point that city will so overwhelm the others in GPPs that you won't need to worry about the contamination the other cities give from wonders that you want the benefits from, but that give nonGA points (pyramids and great library for me). a prophet or 3 is useful for the shrines, if you found religions and have the time to spread them, and you ideally want 3 scientists for academies, but with micromanaging and some luck with the random rolls that's doable. sometimes that later-founded GA farm ends up catching up culture-wise with the city you'd thought would be the 3rd one to hit legendary, so that's another reason to get lots of GAs and save them, to know which cities to bomb.

what surprised me the most when trying out and learning culture victories is that the early game is crucial in terms of city placement and certain wonders, but you really don't need to watch how fast your cities are gaining culture until much later. the game totally changes once you get the key buildings built in your 3 core cities. at a certain point you even stop research (which seemed blasphemous to me!), turn up the culture slider, watch your diplomacy with the bad guys, and the tide completely turns.

this link is for a peaceful cultural victory, obviously midgame and with toku being such a pain to you a lot of it doesn't apply. but it might be helpful advice for this or next time. Godotnut's War Academy Article

good luck!!
 
first of all, you dont need to discover any religions at all to obtain Cultural Victory. At higher difficulty, it's very hard to do, because AI research faster than us (unless you start with mysticism and your rivals dont)

to obtain cultural victory you need at least 4 cities (6 if possible, but hard to do at higher difficulty)
3 for culture cities (building, science, culture) and 1 city for unit production

swap all those priests for artists for GA , and you need cathedrals (you founded 6 religions, you should be able to build at least 6 cathedrals and let isabella spread her religion at your cities)
for a Cultural victory, you HAVE to stop research at some point
you will fall behind in research, but for good



at immortal difficulty ( i cant win deity yet), for a Cultural Victory, i usually play Mansa (Spi/Fin) or Saladin (Spi/Phi)
you need music fast for cathedrals, at of course liberalism for free speech

With Mansa, i usually go the common Bronzeworking>Chop for settler and cottage spam as soon as possible (running CE)
you will need Stone at start to build pyramid
then get alphabet fast to trade technology
till you get lots money, switch to universal suffrage to buy building
Because of financial trait, your research is faster, so you can get some advance techs (like biology or electricity) before you stop researching
get skimisher fast, because they are very good even after feudalism
more money = more research/culture = legendary culture

With Saladin, i usually found Hinduism first, i convert to hinduism till my 4 cities expand borders (state religion gives +1 culture), then switch back to no state religion, otherwise it will spoil my diplomacy
after polytheism, the usual mining>bronze for chopping
no pyramid? no problem, then go for parthenon or even oracle (get code of law as free tech)
farm all grassland, floodplains and run SE with priests
the first Great Prophet immediately lightbulb Theology if possible, and 1 city should build Sistine Chapel
you will discover Hinduism, Confucianism and Christiany
now every GP spawn can build shrine if possible or merge into city to accelerate research and production, until you dont need GP anymore, switch all priest to artist specialists to generate great artists
later on, your "production city" could produce some missionary to spread your religion(s) and ask majority of AI to convert to your religion, so you can run pacifism with state religion without having diplomatic penalty
after getting "all techs/buildings you need" (last was usually liberalism), stop research/producing and focus to culture,
Sistine Chapel+ Artists+ Cathedrals = legendary culture

I simply like Spiritual for 1/2 temple costs and the invaluable ability to switch civics without anarchy period
representation/universal suffrage
slavery/serfdom/caste sytem
organized religion/pacifism
anytime i want, anytime i need to, as well as if AI ask me to convert or adopt, i would just agree and then switch back after 5 turns
 
There are many ways to go for cultural victory. Commerce + slider (no more research) is only one way, although the easiest. An RB SG was played here, featuring a cultural victory without slider nor building culture, but that method requires decision of cultural victory when you start the game. Inspired by the RB SG, I played a cultural game myself with the same conditions (no slider, no building culture) and found it quite nice.

Cathedrals are still required in all cases (you simply need cultural multipliers, and there aren't that many choices), and easiest way to get them is to get religions yourself, although having other religions spread to your cities is entirely possible (more luck required though).
 
culture can be really fun and quite complicated (down to using checklists to keep track of what you've built in which city). my first culture victories i did that way. the most recent one i pulled off sort of started by accident. i'd been playing a normal game, but settled a city right near america's capital just to block him off from my part of the continent and force him south since he hadn't expanded much. the only thing he had between me and Washington at that point was new york, which was coastal and placed in a spot that i realized i could put another city near it and push both. i cultured the heck out of the city by Washington of course (i named it PushUS), and at a certain point realized that i probably could get it and my first 2 cities (much farther north) legendary. i worked towards that, New York flipped to me, and literally the turn before i bombed my 2nd and 3rd cities to legendary, Washington *finally* went into revolt. i doubt it would have ever flipped, it had quite a few defenders left in it that couldn't leave since i had never opened borders with him, but it did make me laugh.

i did a really bizarre culture-focused game once. the only victory condition was domination, but Always Peace was on. so i had to get my land tiles by pushing their cities back, nobody could capture any cities by war. it was really really fun for me and suspenseful. just a thought for some day you're in a weird mood and want to do something completely different than warmongering.
 
Ironically the best path to a cultural victory is early warmongering. I hardly ever found Buddhism or Hinduism. Worker are more important to me, for the early expansion. Confucianism comes with the Oracle, and better avoid Stonehenge. When it gets obsolete the Momuments disappear, but when you built them they still give culture after Calendar is researched.
If you start near Isabella or Gandhi you have a free holy city, and you'll need at least 6 cities, so you can build cathedrals ( only two cities need cathedrals, the capital is usually far ahead in culture). Set up a production city early and try to get the Parthenon, and some weaker wonders for the artist points. You can either build your National Epic in your Artist wonder city, or set up a GP farm with the Globe Theater and NE.
Divine Right and paper are important early on for the wonders. When you research Liberalism switch to Free Speech and spend 100% on culture. The Spiral Minaret and Sankore University will allow you to keep researching.
Avoid Chemistry and take the Democracy path.
The religion civic should first be Organized Religion until your culture cities have as many temples and monastries as possible, then switch to Pacifism until Free Religion is available.
 
Ironically the best path to a cultural victory is early warmongering. I hardly ever found Buddhism or Hinduism. Worker are more important to me, for the early expansion. Confucianism comes with the Oracle, and better avoid Stonehenge. When it gets obsolete the Momuments disappear, but when you built them they still give culture after Calendar is researched.
If you start near Isabella or Gandhi you have a free holy city, and you'll need at least 6 cities, so you can build cathedrals ( only two cities need cathedrals, the capital is usually far ahead in culture). Set up a production city early and try to get the Parthenon, and some weaker wonders for the artist points. You can either build your National Epic in your Artist wonder city, or set up a GP farm with the Globe Theater and NE.
Divine Right and paper are important early on for the wonders. When you research Liberalism switch to Free Speech and spend 100% on culture. The Spiral Minaret and Sankore University will allow you to keep researching.
Avoid Chemistry and take the Democracy path.
The religion civic should first be Organized Religion until your culture cities have as many temples and monastries as possible, then switch to Pacifism until Free Religion is available.
i doubt it, unless you play cyrus or hatshepsut, it's very hard to run war at early stage
they start with several archers and you with 1 warrior, what are you gonna do?


and it's actually at least 4 cities, 6 cities if you place them nearer to each other (like 2-3 tiles away).
 
I actually started a new game today using your suggestions to heart. Like someone before has said, I began my game with a good ole fasion warmongering. I took out the Egyptians and Koreans, keeping their capitals for the other 2 legendary cities. I founded most of the religions and grapped several wonders like last time. However, I now watch more carefully with my tiling and GP farming. I'm doing very well in production, growth and science. Only problem is that I forgot to switch to Caste System ASAP :blush: So, I'm trying to draft some more Artists. I'll post if I win or not.

Thanks again for the tips :)
 
good luck! and even if you don't win, you'll learn some things about the "other" side of the game ... including how much it appeals to you vs. killing everything in sight *giggle*.
 
i doubt it, unless you play cyrus or hatshepsut, it's very hard to run war at early stage
they start with several archers and you with 1 warrior, what are you gonna do?


and it's actually at least 4 cities, 6 cities if you place them nearer to each other (like 2-3 tiles away).

Axe- or Sword rush is early enough for me.
Then you can put the AI capital to wonder production, while your original cities keep building units, and after you have 6-9 cities switch to builder mode and try to stay out of trouble.

And the thenooblet22 is playing on Noble. The AI doesn't start with Archers on levels below Monarch.
 
well, at noble you dont even need to warmonger anyway

AI expand slow, so you will have lots time to build your own cities
and you will always advance in tech
because at noble you can discover most religions, you dont have to wait till AI spread theirs, so just straight tech to drama, music, liberalism and focus to culture
the research can go even further if you want to get eiffel tower

at immortal difficulty, i usually only build archer/skimisher to prevent AI invading me, only for early military presence, and i stay "no state religion" most of time, eventhough i have religions at my cities
later on after finish expanding, i spread a religion (if i founded one) to all and ask them to convert, so i can run pacifism without worry and get benefit from my shrine
otherwise, i will just share religion with the majority (mainly with the warmonger)

the most common mistake is people tend to build everything, which will spoil your game
for a cultural victory, you need at least 3 commerce cities and 1 production city
later on, you might build 2 new cities within your border, just only to build temples for multiple cathedrals

the production city doest need building like aquaduct, theatre, market, library or whatever. it just needs to have enough food, a granary and a forge.
 
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