Save/Reload Cheating

[Akka]

I'd like to be able to do it from time to time. I prefer to finish a game without reloading, but I'm not compelled that much, so...

 

[Chuda]

I only reload a game in the few cases where I had intended to do something before the end of a turn, and due to the fact that I'm getting older and more forgetful - I press the end-turn button without doing what I had originally intended to do! I have actually started keeping a potsy-note handy to write myself reminders...LOL!

LOL I'm getting like that too.

I cross my fingers to remind myself that I have to do something before I end the turn.

Usually I just end up staring at my crossed fingers and thingking, "Now, what was I supposed to remember?"

Hmmm? Post-it notes. Good idea! LOL

 

[Junuxx]

They built their city, started to build their warrior and got a 12 resource bonus! Hang-on, I thought the computer didn't cheat on Noble? What are the quicksave/quickload keys again?

I think that's an anti-early-rush measure.

 

[Chuda]

I think that's an anti-early-rush measure.

Fair enough, but where's my anti-early-rush measure bonus then?

EDIT: Actualy, to be fair, since the first thing I did was check how far away the city was and calculated whether or not I could get there before the warrior was built... it's probably a very valid anti-early-rush measure! LOL

 

[Undertaker798]

I wouldn't really say its cheating, just a precaution. But i see where you are coming from, interesting thread.

 

[Gr3yL3gion]

I finished the game from start till end with no saves in between.

 

[WuphonsReach]

I reloaded one game so far. Was an early try of the 3rd difficulty level and I got mowed over by a neighboring civ because I hadn't defended my cities properly. (The civ was friendly, but turned on me as soon as it saw my weakly defended cities.)

So I reloaded and went back as many turns as were in the autosaves (roughly 12?). I managed to ramp up enough military to beat back the incoming invasion, only to lose to another civ on my southern flank who sensed that I had weakened my other cities.

(I was pretty much doomed no matter how many times I reloaded.)

Other then that, I don't bother.

 

[The Great Apple]

I used to in Civ 3 - but only when I accidently hit the end turn button. It was so easy to do it by accident when you were trying to press the buttons down the side beside it.

I'll never reload because if the game is beating me, but I will reload if the control system is.

 

[e_a_olson]

You know, in golf, there is a rule that states you must "play it where it lies" (referring to the ball). That pretty much sums up my feelings towards save-scumming, as it is sometimes called in other games (Nethack, for one).

 

[TyranusBonehead]

I reload, but only if I'm particularly frustrated or want to try a different approach, if something I did didn't work as hoped. I think with Civ4 I've only reloaded once out of 10-11 games.

 

[homegrown]

I absolutely believe you should be allowed to play your game the way you want. In that spirit, I just can't see loading a prior save as cheating. It's a GAME! One of the objects of a game it to win. Losing, is it's own experience, but why should I take that newfound experience and just file it for future use when I can easily go back a few turns and correct the error *I* made in the first place? That's called "situational strategy" and is a good thing.

To me, that's the difference between turn-based and real-time and why I don't like RTS as a genre (like "pausing" is cheating! -- geeesh).

So... um... if it's not too much trouble, I'd like people to stop calling loading a save cheating. You are, however, permitted to call using the world builder cheating. Now THAT'S cheating!

 

[Piemaster]

So... um... if it's not too much trouble, I'd like people to stop calling loading a save cheating. You are, however, permitted to call using the world builder cheating. Now THAT'S cheating!

The difference between the two is purely a matter of scale. Both are cheating by my definition as they abuse a mechanic in order to give your civ an unfair advantage. You can argue that all you want, you can say 'but the AI cheats too' or you can say 'it's my game and I can play it how I want', but it doesn't change anything.

Of course it is your game and you can play it how you want, the point of the thread is that I wanted to know how to take peoples accomplishments in this game. If someone says they can regularly beat Monarch level, does that mean with cheating or without? Inneveitably, we will get to a point where someone claims to have beaten immortal level and offers a screenshot as proof. The problem is that the first person to do this will almost certainly do it by save scumming (wow I miss nethack) extensively. How sriously can we take such a win in those circumstances? It is still an accomplishment, but how big? Is it tougher than beating Monarch without cheating? Emperor?

I think it is diffcult to quantify any acievement in this game without knowing how much scumming it involved.

 

[Varelse]

You know, in golf, there is a rule that states you must "play it where it lies" (referring to the ball). That pretty much sums up my feelings towards save-scumming, as it is sometimes called in other games (Nethack, for one).

In golf there is also something called a "mulligan", otherwise known as a do-over.

I tend to only reload if I forgot to do something before ending the turn or if something doesn't do what I thought it was supposed to do. I've been bad on a few occaisions and reloaded because I did something stupid but that's between me and my God. lol Oh wait, in this game I AM God, so it's between me and me. Screw you guys.

 

[j_buckingham80]

Hmm, Interesting topic, one of which I have plenty of thoughts on. A couple, I think saving and reloading is not cheating, regardless if that's what one thinks it should be called. Civ 2 (I think made this easy) you could turn a cheat mode on, like Worldbuilder, but it even brought up a dialogue if you wanted to turn it on. That's fine and easy. But saving and reloading is a part of the game. It's part of the way the game was designed.

I think it's unwise to use it frequently or as a crutch, in real life if you could save and reload some act wouldn't you act a little differently, haven't any of you ever looked back and said, hmm...I bet if I had done it this way, things would have worked out better, well with a game you actually get to do this. It makes life so much nicer. It's like when I work on my computer and am loading on drivers or new components and suddenly it's like something disagrees with the system, and it crashes on me, oh how I wish I could just, "reload" my computer with all my previous options, trudging through S*** just to "build character" is not my idea of a good time, especially when I'm playing a game. I don't reload though in Multiplayer, of course, and I usually do just fine, but you play a game on multiplayer far differently than you do on Emperor or Diety. I understand some of you may be able to win a Diety game without ever reloading, good for you, you're better than I am at this game. Congrats. But is Diety with reloading far harder than Monarch without (speaking Civ3) absolutely in my experience.

A final thought, if in class the teacher gives an open book exam, and you the good student say that it's "cheating" to use the book than be my guest shout it from the highest rooftop that every other one of your classmates is "cheating," but don't think you're somehow holier than them, or whatever just because you did it without the resource of the book. Now, if someone brings a book into a closed book exam, yeah that's cheating. But if it's actually open book, well...you can call using the book cheating, but it ain't.

It bugged me like heck when in Civ2 some of my best friends would call my heavy use of spies cheating. They hated it, but they insisted on being in Communism and I was a democracy, spies helped to balance out the sheer military advantage of Communism by giving Democracies a bribery bonus (lots of cash, and immunity). It was hardly cheating. As I like to say, I merely used the resources made available to me.

 

[Reg Pither]

Saving and reloading simply because you don't like the result is definitely cheating. I don't see how any rational person could call it anything else. If, however, you've genuinely made a mistake or pressed the end turn button before you wanted to, then fine. Only you will know the truth and will have to live with your conscience.

Having said that, if you've paid your money, you can play the game in whatever way you like, so I've no great problem with people doing it if that's what they enjoy. But it's just not for me. If I lose a settler early on or some other catastrophe, I simply carry on and relish the challenge or start a new game.

 

[skadistic]

I saved in 3 before every goody hut and reloaded till I got what I wanted, mostly techs. In 4 I have yet to reload for any other reason then a crash to desktop or loading after quiting from the day before.

 

[Percinho]

I used to do it all the time with Bonus huts in Civ III, but have found myself not doing it in Civiv. Not entirely sure why, it's not a philosophical change, more that I haven't had the compulsion to do it.

I chose the 'Never - I hate cheating option', but it's not strictly accurate as I have no great feelings on people cheating on a single player game. Can you really 'cheat' a computer? If it was a GOTM game then yes, it's cheating. But on a SP game which will not stand comparison with any other human game? Not sure what I'd describe it as.

 

[Meffy]

I've been saving frequently but haven't found the need to restore (I have been playing at an easy level). Exception: When the cat upon the keyboard doth tread. >:-S She's old, so I indulge her; problem is that she treats my display as other cats behave toward a newspaper or book while you're trying to read it... and thinks the keyboard is some kind of elaborate stepping-platform.

 

[weasel77066]

I reloaded several times getting used to the right click move, but I dont count that as cheating. I would accidentally move a unit I had not intended.
I dont ever cheat on account of a combat loss or a bad decision, and its why I dont play Email game with one of my brothers- (he is prone to do that over and over, then only mailing me the best outcome he could deliver)

 

[vyapti]

I save/reload alot right now because I don't understand much of the game and the civilopedia SUCKS!. Often times, the only way to to understand the effect of an action is to try it, especially with things like civics and maint.

I am glad that they took out the don't 'preserve random seed' option. That was just too tempting.

I've been saving frequently but haven't found the need to restore (I have been playing at an easy level). Exception: When the cat upon the keyboard doth tread.

I've got three cats and a 3.2ghz laptop. I can't keep them off my toasty warm keyboard. It's especially irritating in the diplomacy screen. Last night, my cat gave away my only source of marble while I was getting coffee!