saying goodbye to Civ and Firaxis. For good.

[Rotomagus]

I dug this game out a few weeks ago after not having it played for years due to a super-rage-quit (cost me a keyboard and a monitor ).

Thought, something/anything would be improved by now.

No.

The game still cheats you to death, there are unfathomably anoying bugs (e.g. Great Admiral still turning up on inland lakes...), the new modes may be fun, but an AI unable to make use of them, this is fraud.

I played on prince only in order to not be anoyed by the ridiculous Boni the AI gets on higher 'difficulties' (this is still the case, after decades, DECADES mind you! of Civving!!) and still the game cheats ( cheats! I am not talking 'Boni').

I played around with the debugmode to thoroughly check on what the AI does, sometimes round by round.

Example:
I play Russia. For the Faith-Bonus on Tundra.
I found my 1st city ON Tundra. To get the friggin' "Dance of the Aurora"-Pantheon. On Prince this usually works out fine, except...

Well, except if there is at least ONE other Civ only CLOSE to Tundra.

They WILL get the Dance of the Aurora first. No matter if Nubia (yes, I know of the pyramid. There is rarely desert in the Tundra..., Gran Colombia, Canada... I don't see how they even get ANY faith that much and faster than I do, (Huts maybe, but 2 of them to reach the 25 faith? What a coincidence... I didn't try it with Huts off, but I'm sure it would still happen. Did I maybe miss anything else?), but they do.

In every.
single.
case.

Not one exeption I had.

If there is another Civ near Tundra, the game cheats them the Dance of Aurora up their ... you know what.

I tested this with approx >50 Start-Runs. It happened EVERY single time, when an AI-controlled Civ was near Tundra.

This and so many other still existing bugs, cheats (e.g. Wonders not being build for 250 rounds, then, when you start it, it SUDDENLY gets finished by an AI player. If you reload and DON'T start it, no one will ever build it... WTF!!!? Oh, and the AI-unit-pumping early game... Warriors, Slingers... and half a dozen Scouts!??? Second and third city before I even had the chance to build a settler? Yes, I'm still talking Prince...) and anoyances (the 'niggling' Things *ggg*; and why can't I plant Forest on tiles with 'Camp'-resources!?) and lest I forget, the bad Maps, ridiculously bad starting points compared to the AIs, and yes I am using balanced or even legendary starts; etc.pp... so, it's a NO from me for Firaxis and Civ from now on.

Let's see if Humankind does it any better. If their AI get's a single Bonus, I will not touch that game either. Or any other 4X-cheat.

Happy Civing to you, guys!

 

[canadamufc]

Listen, on Prince the AI gets 0 extra bonuses over the player. It's balanced, you are at the same level as the AI in terms of bonuses. Yes, some stuff is very annoying in this game, that is undeniable, but there isn't any cheating on prince. Seems like you just have terrible luck.

 

[Melliores]

Civilization has been using AI boosts since the first one in 1991, exactly 30 years ago. Firaxis did not even exist back then, it was only Sid Meier and a few other people. It has been a staple of the difficulty curve and most people do not enjoy it, that is why you have the 8 different difficulty settings.

That said, on Prince there are no, let me repeat that no AI boosts or cheats. If you want to, I can get a game going on Prince with Russia later today and upload a save when I get to the Pantheon ?

Are you building a holy site and using other possible boosts to get faith production going ? Have you been using any mods ?

 

[Tiberiu]

Civilization 6 is indeed garbage compared to 5, Beyond Earth or even 4, but if you have problems with Prince level, you must suck even as a casual player.

The correct word is Bonuses. Not boni. Repeat after me... bonuses, bonuses, bonuses.

Now, seeing how you go into a violent rage over losing on a game, you might want some anger management courses instead of spending any more money on games with poor AI that give the AI bonuses.
For the record, the Firaxis AI is so garbage that the game can easily be won on Deity level even by the least imaginative players out there.

 

[Rotomagus]

Listen, on Prince the AI gets 0 extra bonuses over the player. It's balanced, you are at the same level as the AI in terms of bonuses. Yes, some stuff is very annoying in this game, that is undeniable, but there isn't any cheating on prince. Seems like you just have terrible luck.

Cheating and Bonus are two different things. Read that again.

Civilization has been using AI boosts since the first one in 1991, exactly 30 years ago. Firaxis did not even exist back then, it was only Sid Meier and a few other people. It has been a staple of the difficulty curve and most people do not enjoy it, that is why you have the 8 different difficulty settings.

That said, on Prince there are no, let me repeat that no AI boosts or cheats. If you want to, I can get a game going on Prince with Russia later today and upload a save when I get to the Pantheon ?

Are you building a holy site and using other possible boosts to get faith production going ? Have you been using any mods ?

Pantheons are set long before Holy Sites if you play Russia. THAT is exactly the point here. I ALWAYS get the Pantheon I want as Russia, except in the case mentioned above. Try it. You will see.

Civilization 6 is indeed garbage compared to 5, Beyond Earth or even 4, but if you have problems with Prince level, you must suck even as a casual player.

The correct word is Bonuses. Not boni. Repeat after me... bonuses, bonuses, bonuses.

Now, seeing how you go into a violent rage over losing on a game, you might want some anger management courses instead of spending any more money on games with poor AI that give the AI bonuses.
For the record, the Firaxis AI is so garbage that the game can easily be won on Deity level even by the least imaginative players out there.

It's not about winning. Or sucking. I know how to play Civ, I play it since the 199Xs, but I want to have fun with the game, not stress.

You can say Bonusses as well as Boni. I prefer Boni, it's shorter.

And yes, I will not spend any more money EVER on 4X-games that use BONI for their AI.

But I wasn't talking Boni here. I was talking cheats.

 

[Melliores]

Pantheons are set long before Holy Sites if you play Russia. THAT is exactly the point here. I ALWAYS get the Pantheon I want as Russia, except in the case mentioned above. Try it. You will see.

I will give it a try later today, it is Sunday and I would like to spend some time outside.

The only way another civilization can beat you to a Pantheon as Russia is if they get a relic via a goody hut. Or you have Mali in your game, but they should pick a completely different pantheon. What are your map settings, do you set a colder and wet planet ?

 

[Tiberiu]

I am afraid there exists no 4X game that has an AI that does not rely on cheats or scripts... if you want a fair game you might want to get into chess (this is mostly a joke).

Forgot to say, that I believe your story. The AIs do things in relation to what the human player does. There are weird scripts that dictate how a game evolves, based on what YOU do, even when the computer players have no information about you. This sucks in a major way and goes to show that as of 2021 even successful companies are unable to create a quality game for strategy players.

 

[Rotomagus]

I will give it a try later today, it is Sunday and I would like to spend some time outside.

The only way another civilization can beat you to a Pantheon as Russia is if they get a relic via a goody hut. Or you have Mali in your game, but they should pick a completely different pantheon. What are your map settings, do you set a colder and wet planet ?

Relic... well, when I settle on Tundra, this means I will have the Pantheon (with two faith/round MINIMUM, one from City tile, one from worked tile) at approx 12/13 rounds. A Relic gives 4(?) faith, but needs to be found, and the Huts are not directly near the city. So with this it could be possible... good Idea, I will check for this. But not today, as you said it.

Mali was in the Game, but wasn't the one with the first Pantheon, it was Gran Colombia.

And yes, I always set it to cold and wet. I like the Optics, when lush swamps border to Tundra.

I am afraid there exists no 4X game that has an AI that does not rely on cheats or scripts... if you want a fair game you might want to get into chess (this is mostly a joke).

Forgot to say, that I believe your story. The AIs do things in relation to what the human player does. There are weird scripts that dictate how a game evolves, based on what YOU do, even when the computer players have no information about you. This sucks in a major way and goes to show that as of 2021 even successful companies are unable to create a quality game for strategy players.

If you are not having me on with this post, than THANK YOU a thousand times. Scripts it is then? I had a feeling like it, but I am no programmer...

If these scripts really exist (I have a feeling, that they are there since at least CivIV, which also anoyed the crap out of me...), then playing such a game makes no sense at all. Btw, Chess is boring.

Allrighty then, no more 4X game for me. I will check Humankind, if they do it the same, that's it.

Will go back to my (A)RPGs then...

 

[canadamufc]

Cheating and Bonus are two different things. Read that again.

???
How are they different? The AI cheats/gets bonuses on difficulties above prince. For example, on King they get +8% Science, Culture, and Faith. When you play on Prince, you are playing the EXACT same game as the AI. No "cheating", no "bonuses", and no "advantages".

In your original post, you were confident that the AI cheats by getting Dance of the Aurora for free if they start near tundra. No such thing exists, even on Deity (let alone prince).

 

[Abaxial]

I remember how Master of Magic used to cheat like crazy - AI units apparently had no resource costs.

 

[Rotomagus]

???
How are they different? The AI cheats/gets bonuses on difficulties above prince. For example, on King they get +8% Science, Culture, and Faith. When you play on Prince, you are playing the EXACT same game as the AI. No "cheating", no "bonuses", and no "advantages".

In your original post, you were confident that the AI cheats by getting Dance of the Aurora for free if they start near tundra. No such thing exists, even on Deity (let alone prince).

Read the initial Post again. And again. Until you understand it. Others have. Why not you?

 

[Melliores]

Relic... well, when I settle on Tundra, this means I will have the Pantheon (with two faith/round MINIMUM, one from City tile, one from worked tile) at approx 12/13 rounds. A Relic gives 4(?) faith, but needs to be found, and the Huts are not directly near the city. So with this it could be possible... good Idea, I will check for this. But not today, as you said it.

Mali was in the Game, but wasn't the one with the first Pantheon, it was Gran Colombia.

And yes, I always set it to cold and wet. I like the Optics, when lush swamps border to Tundra.

Well, there is more to that - with Russia you should have at least 3 Faith per turn from turn 2 when you slot in the God king policy card (+1 Gold and +1 Faith in your capital). That gives you a pantheon sub 10 turns.

However there is more to that :
- A relic from a goody hut gives you +4 Faith per turn. The AI can benefit from this.
- A Religious city-state will give you +1 Faith per turn (used to be 2) if you meet them first. An AI can take huge advantage from this.
- Any luxury resource that grants faith when working it. They usually grant only +1 Faith unless you are using mods.
- A flat +20 Faith from a goody which is completely random. Should not happen every single game as you have described.
- Some natural wonders also give faith to adjacent tiles. If you do not like that, you can always remove them from your game via the Natural Wonders picker.

In the best case scenario for you, you will be at +3/turn from turn 2 and then find a Religious city state at turn 5 for example. So you will have 2*1+3*3+4*4 = 27 faith in 9 turns. Without a religious city-state you will get 2*1+8*3= 26 Faith in 10 turns.

Ten turns should be your absolute maximum for getting a Pantheon with Russia. Кееp in mind that if there is more tundra in the world the AI will be aware of that even if they do not start exactly on Tundra (for example they discover Tundra tiles with their scouts).

This means that Dance of the Aurora will be a lot higher on their priorities than normal because of the climate you picked for your world.

 

[Kupe Navigator]

Read the initial Post again. And again. Until you understand it. Others have. Why not you?

I don't get why you would be upset. I usually play on prince and yet I don't see any cheating.

Seems like you are just butthurt at bad game and came here to rant.

 

[Vizurok]

Well, there is more to that - with Russia you should have at least 3 Faith per turn from turn 2 when you slot in the God king policy card (+1 Gold and +1 Faith in your capital). That gives you a pantheon sub 10 turns.

However there is more to that :
- A relic from a goody hut gives you +4 Faith per turn. The AI can benefit from this.
- A Religious city-state will give you +1 Faith per turn (used to be 2) if you meet them first. An AI can take huge advantage from this.
- Any luxury resource that grants faith when working it. They usually grant only +1 Faith unless you are using mods.
- A flat +20 Faith from a goody which is completely random. Should not happen every single game as you have described.

In the best case scenario for you, you will be at +3/turn from turn 2 and then find a Religious city state at turn 5 for example. So you will have 2*1+3*3+4*4 = 27 faith in 9 turns. Without a religious city-state you will get 2*1+8*3= 26 Faith in 10 turns.

Ten turns should be your absolute maximum for getting a Pantheon with Russia. Кееp in mind that if there is more tundra in the world the AI will be aware of that even if they do not start exactly on Tundra (for example they discover Tundra tiles with their scouts).

This means that Dance of the Aurora will be a lot higher on their priorities than normal because of the climate you picked for your world.

How are you slotting in God King on T2? You need to research Code of Laws first and that should take around 10 turns.

 

[Rotomagus]

Well, there is more to that - with Russia you should have at least 3 Faith per turn from turn 2 when you slot in the God king policy card (+1 Gold and +1 Faith in your capital). That gives you a pantheon sub 10 turns.

However there is more to that :
- A relic from a goody hut gives you +4 Faith per turn. The AI can benefit from this.
- A Religious city-state will give you +1 Faith per turn (used to be 2) if you meet them first. An AI can take huge advantage from this.
- Any luxury resource that grants faith when working it. They usually grant only +1 Faith unless you are using mods.
- A flat +20 Faith from a goody which is completely random. Should not happen every single game as you have described.

In the best case scenario for you, you will be at +3/turn from turn 2 and then find a Religious city state at turn 5 for example. So you will have 2*1+3*3+4*4 = 27 faith in 9 turns. Without a religious city-state you will get 2*1+8*3= 26 Faith in 10 turns.

Ten turns should be your absolute maximum for getting a Pantheon with Russia. Кееp in mind that if there is more tundra in the world the AI will be aware of that even if they do not start exactly on Tundra (for example they discover Tundra tiles with their scouts).

This means that Dance of the Aurora will be a lot higher on their priorities than normal because of the climate you picked for your world.

Yes, aware of it. In the last case there were no religios city states near gran colombia and also no resource. I was checking for it, when I opened the map.

Lets recalculate: when there is a relic found, you have a pantheon in... 7 rounds. Means you need to find a hut 5 to 6 rounds after start to beat russia. Yeah, seems legit. I will check for that.

 

[Kupe Navigator]

Yes, aware of it. In the last case there were no religios city states near gran colombia and also no resource. I was checking for it, when I opened the map.

They might have gottem relics from the hut

 

[Melliores]

How are you slotting in God King on T2? You need to research Code of Laws first and that should take around 10 turns.

My bad, I am still sleepy. Sorry for that.

You should still be able to get a Pantheon with Russia within 10 turns. I will run a test game later today and post screenshots and a save file if requested.

 

[Rotomagus]

They might have gottem relics from the hut

we are beyond that point already...

My bad, I am still sleepy. Sorry for that.

You should still be able to get a Pantheon with Russia within 10 turns. I will run a test game later today and post screenshots and a save file if requested.

Well, it's situational. But you got me going, I think I will run a few more tests myself...

 

[canadamufc]

Read the initial Post again. And again. Until you understand it. Others have. Why not you?

I'm very confused. How about instead of beating around the bush you tell me the point? All I can gather from the post is that you're convinced that the AI cheats on Prince.

Just for you I did what you said. Continents, 6 players, cold, wet, prince, Russia. First try, was able to get Dance of the Aurora. Did it as sub-optimally as possible, only went 1FPT from turn 1 (didn't settle on tundra or put in God-King). Pantheon on turn 27.

EDIT: Save-

 

[Rotomagus]

I'm very confused. How about instead of beating around the bush you tell me the point? All I can gather from the post is that you're convinced that the AI cheats on Prince.

Just for you I did what you said. Continents, 6 players, cold, wet, prince, Russia. First try, was able to get Dance of the Aurora. Did it as sub-optimally as possible, only went 1FPT from turn 1 (didn't settle on tundra or put in God-King). Pantheon on turn 27.

EDIT: Save-

well, you didnt get the point then. Again.