sc:01 Moddern war

I didn't let the barracks complete cos I thought "that's worth 1 1/2 chariots" if we're going to rush, we should RUSH.
I thought I was :smoke:ing not diverting the workers to chop everything in site.

Can't say much more now. Have to get kids ready and get out of the door to support the other half in a half marathon...
 
2000BC (0):

Preflight check. Power graph claims we are sucking vs Willem and even more vs Alex. Good thing Willem is our first target. I guess I'll be buffing our military this turnset.

We've got 5 hammers per turn at each of our cities. War Chariots cost 45 hammers. It'll be completely unreasonable to expect Willem not to have defenses enough if we wait 9 turns on each War Chariot. So I'm going to do my best to chop them out. I will honour Simon's sentiment about the barracks, because after thinking about it, we'll probably be toast if we wait longer.

Move unmoved Chariot towards the barb east of Memphis.

1975BC (1):

Pottery comes in. Start Writing in 15 turns. >.<

Worker that built the farm on the corn builds a road in order to speed up the chariots reaching Willem when the time comes.

Eastern barb warrior disappeared, so the Thebes chariot has nothing to do. Goes north to try and scout out Willem.

Willem also appears to have a 3rd city. Will check it out.
Spoiler :


Start chopping forested hill near Thebes. Can replace it with a mine, so no biggie...

1950BC (2):

Thebes grows this turn, but I can't exactly stop growth, because of the dependance on 6 food tiles (either growing or starving). Shuffle dance to the three mines and keep the pigs being worked for growth in 18. However, the last angry person will disappear in 27. Will have to remember to come back and move off the pigs to work a forest or something.

Amsterdam is on the coast (barely), and defended by one unpromoted Archer. It's also surrounded by forests with at least 3 hills and a stone in the fat cross. That means great production, but it's going to be a pain for our chariots to take.
Spoiler :


Willem has also connected the copper (expected).

Blah! Incoming barb! He's coming at our worker who is working on the Quarry, but the work won't be finished in time. Scouting Chariot is also blocked by forests. Activate one of two warriors in Memphis and put it on the hill, just in case.
Spoiler :


1925BC (3):

Damn, some Champion unit emerged from the Greek Games. Good thing they are second on the list and not first.

Two unpromoted Archers are holding The Hague... It's on a hill, but has generous amounts of flatland for our chariots.
Spoiler :


Thankfully, barb warrior moves one tile south. Will keep an eye on him.

1900BC (4):

Barb Warrior disappears into the fog... But find it again with the War Chariot!

Some random barb warrior to the north gets owned by our scouting Chariot. (flawless!)

1875BC (5):

Chariot done in Thebes, stick another one in before the Barracks in 4 turns.

Memphis grew this turn, so set the new citizen to work the marble, even though it isn't finished with its quarry.

Notice the Chariot which killed the barb warrior last turn somehow got 2 exp from it (I thought you only get one if you go in with 99.9% odds).

Utrecht is on a hill and defended by an archer, but lucky for us there are two grasslands beside it so we can rush it without being vulnerable.
Spoiler :


1850BC (6):

Barb Warrior that I was chasing with a Chariot moved back into the rainforest. 96.2% odds are still good, so I kill it. Chariot takes damage though.

Forgot to mention I saw another source of copper a few turns ago (uh... rather like didn't notice >.<).
Spoiler :


'Nother Chariot done this turn, this time from Memphis. Set it on another 6 turn Chariot. 4 chariots ready so far.

Worker at Thebes also finished chopping the hilled forest this turn, so expect another chariot next turn. Starts on a mine.

Quarry is done at Memphis. I check production levels. 9 hammers at Memphis and 11 at Thebes. Good for 5 turn chariots all around (4 most of the time from Thebes).

1825BC (7):

Road to the farm at Memphis is done, so rerouting that worker to Thebes to start cottaging (I put it off... :: slaps wrist ::). Start hooking up the marble...

Chariot that was damaged last turn is en route to Memphis for healing in the city. He gets a promotion, but I'll leave it for someone more Civ savvy.

1800BC (8):

Nada... stuff moving. But I notice something interesting up north. Will report it next turn.

1775BC (9):

Barb city... with 3 archers O.o
Spoiler :


Worker starts building long overdue cottage at Thebes.

1750BC (10):

Nothing much happening, workers working on stuff... Notice that Chariot has a 34% chance to win against the barb archer O.o. Good thing this city is far and we don't want to attack it yet.

STILL have not found Alex's cities.

Not much to say. Exploring and beefing up military. We're equal with Willem now on the power graph (can definitely take one of his cities now, but we want to eliminate him). Two more Chariots come in in the next two turns.
Spoiler :



To Madtown: Don't forget to MM Thebes so it doesn't get pissed. The cottage should be done some time soon, and we can work it at less food loss than anything else, while getting more cash (always good).

EDIT: Keep forgetting the roster!

1: Simon_c
2: S.ilver <-- Juts Played
3: Madtown ** Up Now **
4: playshogi <-- On Deck
5: tiberion02
 

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  • sc01 BC-1750.CivBeyondSwordSave
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I like the power chart :)

Looking around the map, I think the medium term plan would be to get rid of Willem and then consolidate and land grab. Looking at the map there's a lot of space to fill up.

We do need to pick up sailing, There seems to be lots of land close by over the see. Looks like Fjords :)

As for a plan of attack..... Tow cities on hills Sheesh !!

I'd say we should take Utrecht first, then Amsterdam, then swing back to The Hague. We should have at least one to disconnect the copper though. At least it's on a flat land, so we can disconnect it on turn1 of the war. Unless there's another boarder pop. The chariot to do that should be dispatched now, it will take some time to get there.

That damn mountain stops us getting to Utrecht quickly. If we come at it from the east, there'll only be 1 turn to whip an extra defender. Ithink we can expect to archers by the time we get there. If we have time to get north east, then we can hit the city on turn1 of the war, before he gets chance to whip. Assuming no border pops.

I'm almost thinking we should declare as soon as to get rid of that copper. And then hang right back while we finish building up our forces. Any comments ?

I'd say we need at least 6 chariots to get utrecht, cos we still may face 2 archers. I'm really nervous that we'll get there and face a bunch of spear-men.
 
Got it.

Will wait for additional responses as to timing of DoW and cutting the copper. We have OB with Willem, so it's faster to send the pillaging unit through his territory before declaring. We can stash him on the hill 1S of the copper.
 
We could attack from the NE (unless a jungle grows there first). Probably move 1 chariot to keep an eye on Utrecht then move it out the turn before we attack, so we know what we face. I'd prefer at least 3 chariots for every defender, plus 1 to pillage copper. Maybe more since its on a hill. We should expect to lose a few, and if we can't press on to Amsterdam there's no point. So, I think we need a total of 10 chariots. OTOH, if we wait too long, Willem's borders expand (he's creative) and we won't have that neutral spot south of the copper available.
 
I don't think that we'll have time to get 10 chariots to the NE staging point before it's too late. What we can do is move 5-6 up to the NE and have another 3-4 coming in from the south. Hopefullly we can take Utrecht with the NE party and converge on Amsterdam with what's left and the reinforcement party.
 
we can do is move 5-6 up to the NE and have another 3-4 coming in from the south. Hopefullly we can take Utrecht with the NE party and converge on Amsterdam with what's left and the reinforcement party.

That sounds like a plan.

Sisutil's hatty game showed that war chariots have a supprisingly long life, but you need Axeman to defend against the spears and enough production to replace your losses quickly. We have neither for this war, so we have to get that copper cut ASAP I think.
 
Turn 90 (IHT): nada

Turn 91: Thebes completes a chariot, starts another - 4 turns.
Sent Thebes chariot to hill south of Willem&#8217;s copper.

Turn 92: Memphis finishes war chariot, begins another war chariot &#8211; 6 turns.

Turn 95: Memphis grows to size 4.
Writing finishes, I choose poly as there was little discussion on tech path. I figure poly opens up ToA and a path to oracle or theo bulb, so should be OK. Poly in 12 turns.

Thebes finishes war chariot. Begins work on&#8230; another chariot (4 turns).

Begin moving troops into place. 5 Chariots sent to northeast to meet up with a sixth.

Also, Willems borders popped in The Hague, but luckily our pillaging chariot was already in place. He is now in a culture dead-zone island.

Turn 96: Stonehenge BIFAL.

Thebes&#8217; cottage is finished on the same turn as the whip unhappiness wears off. MM for max growth (1turn).

Turn 97: Memphis finished chariot &#8211; starts chariot (4 turns).

We get a look into Utrecht, Willem is building axemen.



MM Thebes for max hammers after growth to 5 pop. Chariot now due in 2 turns.




Turn 99: Thebes finishes war chariot, starts another (3 turns).

Turn 100: CRAPS! A spearman has appeared in Utrecht.



We have 6 chariots positioned in the northeast, one tile from Utrecht. I left 3 more chariots in Memphis. Both stacks are UNMOVED!!! so that playshogi can make the call on when to declare.

Memphis will finish another chariot in 1 turn. Thebes will finish another in 2 turns.

Sorry guys, I probably should've declared when the pillaging chariot first got into position. Hopefully there will only be one spearman.

Edit: Just realized I forgot the save, but the upload system is disabled currently. Other options?
 
Attach it to the post. It's under "Additional Options" when you're composing the post.
 
Duh!

And a rooster:
1: Simon_c
2: S.ilver
3: Madtown <-- Juts Played
4: playshogi **Up Now**
5: tiberion02 <-- On Deck
 

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  • sc01 BC-1500.CivBeyondSwordSave
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Took a look at the save, and it appears that Willem's power rating has been climbing just below ours. This is kinda good, but not really because we need an overwhelming number of chariots to swarm his archers. Pity he didn't build many axes yet.

Madtown has left all the chariots on "wait" mode. IMO, we need to strike now, as Willem can outproduce us with his three cities (and he's bound to be making a fourth soon). Declare war and sack Utrecht, disconnecting the copper too.

It sucks that Willem is Creative, because his damn border pops give him more cultural defense. I think Amsterdam is at 40% right now, and that's going to be pretty lethal for our chariots.
 
I think we're going to need to bring all 9 to Utrecht at once in order to take the city now. Shame it had to be on a hill... :wallbash:

Both cities are on high hammers and can pump out chariots every 3-4 turns. They both are also prime to be :whipped: , so I think we should use it. Let the next couple units finish then put a turn's production into chariots and whip. That'll give us 4 more in 4 turns, plus overflow.

While we wait for the reinforcements to take Amsterdam, pillage all but one of the ivory camps and disconnect the roads.

Oh yeah, and please delete the outdated sign over Utrecht. My apologies for leaving a sloppy save :smoke:
 
OK, I've got the save, but I'll think I'll wait until tomorrow night to play. I think we should call off the rush against Willem. I don't think we have enough power to capture Amsterdam. (I'd raze Utrecht). Let's just fill up our southern lands and try for the Oracle slingshot. Our 3rd city ought to be 1 s. of wheat, so as to prevent Willem from settling there. Use our chariots to finish exploring the continent. Maybe gain some experience in razing that barb city, Navajo. If we eliminate Willem, who do we trade tech with? Alex? I'd really think it would be good to get the AP. I think it'll be easier to capture our continent in the Middle Ages with Knights. So, what does everyone else think?

I see Willem has stone. Maybe, he will build the pyramids for us?
 
A more aggressive plan for a 3rd city is the coastal hill among the ivory [red dot]. We could use the extra happy. Followed by a city 3 squares NW of that one [blue dot], with a view to later razing Utrecht.



Also, does anyone know if I would declare war and place a decoy chariot outside Utrecht, would the AI spearman attack it and vacate the city?

Also, while messing around trying to erase the signposts and make my own--I accidentally moved our pillaging chariot. So, I'll need a reload here, unless we agree not to wage war, then it doesn't matter.
 
I'm cool with a reload if there's been a miss-click like that.

I'm really nervous that we'll get there and face a bunch of spear-men.

...so we have to get that copper cut ASAP I think.

I think we missed the rush by about 5 turns. :spank: :spank: :(

Oh well.

I'm in two minds about it. I think it's a perfectly valid tactic to send pillage everything, and try to raise the two outlying cities, and harass Willem until we have cats to take down the defence. The only question is,
1) can we still expand by doing that, bearing in mind we'll get some :( faces. and
2) do we need to trade tech. We won't be able to much with Willem if we attack him. Will we even have anything to trade is the other question ? We're quite behind.

On the plus side, if we leave Willem, then he will be sitting between Alex and us, which can only be a good thing. Especially if we can split them on religious lines.

I *think* the AI spears will leave the cities, to take out a loan chariot.

So, the decision is, do we pillage Willem while we build up, or keep everyone happy until the continent is crowded ?

If I was playing my self, I'd go for the attack, and then reload and take the other path if it failed horribly. :/ That's not good for an SG.

I think, I'd vote on the cautious route but I'm happy to be out voted. If we can come up with a plan. I've not looked at the save (wrong computer) but I don't think we can get the oracle now, even with marble. Unless... Maybe with careful management of overflow, and a chop or two we might just do it.
 
I'm strongly opposed to stopping the rush. IMO, we have invested too many hammers to turn tail now. We might as well just re-roll a new random start if we're going to give up the rush.

IMO, we can easily outproduce Willem. If we cut his copper, all he can build are archers anyways. I also think it's unlikely that he has built any other spearmen.

Only 2 of the three chariots in Memphis have all of their movement left (one had just arrived from thebes). If we follow the path below, we can have 8 chariots at Utrecht in 3 turns.



Move the two Mempis chariots to the jungle hill SW of Utrecht on IHT. The following turn, declare, cut the copper, and move everything in next to the city. Agree that Utrecht should be razed.


We will have 2 more chariots ready in the next 2 turns and can whip more. With the one leftover in Memphis, that means we can have 5 units of reinforcements in 4 turns. Those 5 plus any survivors from Utrecht ought to be able to take Amsterdam. After all, he'll ony be able to build archers.

That's my $.02
 
I did a quick test in World Builder and it is possible for 6 war chariots to kill unfortified units present in Utrecht. I also learned the AI would not likely be goaded to leave the city with a decoy chariot. After the 1st 2 chariots die vs. the spear, the defense switches to the archer, which means if I can't kill that in 2 shots, the spear will have time to heal. Meanwhile, if I take the time to bring up the 3 chariots in Memphis, the spear has a chance to fortify. This is a very iffy combat, IMHO.

BTW, why do we have to move everything next to the city? We can attack directly from where were at, (which is what I would do) although it would take 2 turns for the re-inforcements to get into position.

We haven't wasted the hammers by building so many chariots. It keeps our power rating high, so Willem won't attack us. I know Willem is a backstabber if you're weak militarily.

Both S_c and myself are of the mind to try the attack (and start over if this were a private game:crazyeye: if it fails), but for SG, that's not an option. Mad wants to attack. What say S.il and Tib?
 
I tend to agree. Go for the rush. If we fail, well. We'll either learn how to recover the situation, or roll a new start and play sc02 :lol:

The only difference is, I'd cut the copper now, and probably attack now. If the copper stays there, there's a chance of more spears. If it's not, he'll whip an archer. If we slam into Utrecht now, we've a good chance of taking it, and there'll be another 3 chariots about 1 turn away if we don't get it on turn1 of the war.

EDIT: Two of the chariots have promotions pending. I'd say use them before the attack...
 
I think are chances are really small, but I'll roll the dice tonight (10 hours from now).
Wait 1 turn to move more chariots into position then
1st action - cut the copper.
2nd action - attack the spear and see if I can inflict a lot of damage, if not, maybe just fall back and wait for Willem to attack and spend his units in the field. Or just bypass Utrecht and go for Amsterdam directly?
 
Sounds like a good plan to me. I think we'll need the two extra chariots so I would definitely hold off on declaring untill the second turn.

I would also hold off on whipping any cities untill the first moves of the war have played out. No sense in killing our production and research if we won't need the troops (or if the effort is futile).

Good luck shogi.




Edit - off topic question: Is there a minimum post count required to be able to use a custom avatar?
 
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