sc:01 Moddern war

[playshogi]

OK, got it. It would have been OK to vote for Alex. +2 You Voted For Us. Looks like another set of builder turns.

 

[Madtown]

I KNEW I forgot about something by Thebes. That must be my worst one yet, trying to connect a wheat before mining an iron

Meh, it wasn't a huge loss. We already have the iron near Helio connected. Then again, every hammer helps.

 

[playshogi]

IBT Move southern chariot to check on what Alex is doing to that barb city. Nothing it seems. As an aside, I would favor razing the city of Kushans and build it 1 tile N. I also wonder if we should move orange dot 1 tile N to avoid overlap with Amsterdam? Stop a citizen spy in Navajo and make him work the corn and switch to cheap temple. Whip the market in Thebes and put overflow into a temple.

T194 Our galley defeats the barb galley making it safe to re-deploy our workboat around Memphis. Our chariot kills a barb archer while exploring the southern regions. He discovers 2 silver tiles and a whale, further making the case for moving Kushans 1 N. Navajo and Alexandria learn Islam.

T195 I put 2 merchants to work in Thebes, so that we can research at 50% profitably.

IBT - Banditry in Thebes. I decide to lose 5 rather than pay 11 to save it.

T198 There is a stack of 3 chariots, 3 spears, 3 cats and 1 phalanx in Pharsalos. I put spears into the queue just about everywhere. I have a bad feeling about Alexandria.

T200 - Another vote for the AP, and I voted for Alex for the +2 "You Voted For Us". But I think it's too late. His stack is on the move, headed for Navajo. We've got 2 axes (city raider), 1 spear, 1 war chariot defending the city and a chariot nearby. I suppose Alex could've attacked already, if it had wanted to. Of course, I just remembered, too late, that we might have been able to "stop the war" had I retained control of the AP. Sorry.

After growing Amsterdam a bit, I put the priests back to work, for another GP for the shrine in about 19 turns. Will have to turn off specialists in Thebes, though, as that city is due to produce a GP first.

Roster:
1: Simon_c **UP NOW **
2: S.ilver
3: Madtown
4: playshogi --just played--
5: tiberion02 >>Skip<<

-2.jpg[/IMG]

 

[playshogi]

...and the save

 

[Madtown]

Ouch, doesn't look good.

We need to que troops in all cities and whip ASAP. Unfortunately, even with a decent road network I fear they won't arrive in time.

I guess we could always try a cheap move and see if we can beg 5 gold form Alex. If he gives it then we have 10 more turns to build a force.

Looks like I should've switched to theocracy immediatly and started pumping out units. Hopefully we can still pull through.

 

[playshogi]

Just a thought. We might want to quickly pick up archery and HR and build elephants. Alex's stack is NOT phalanx heavy. I think that would be faster than trying to get Macemen.

 

[S.ilver]

Whether or not the stack is Phalanx heavy doesn't really matter towards elephants. It would actually be a GOOD thing if it were Phalanx heavy, because Phalanx are AXEMEN, not spearmen, and they only get a defensive bonus against chariots.

That being said, do we need Archery for HBR? We need Elephants on the front fast, as we're probably in for a war declaration next turn.

EDIT: If we manage to beg 5 gold from Alex it's binding for 10 turns right? Does the same apply if WE give him 5 gold?

 

[Madtown]

EDIT: If we manage to beg 5 gold from Alex it's binding for 10 turns right? Does the same apply if WE give him 5 gold?

Yes, if he agress to give us gold then it's a binding 10 turns of peace. Sadly, it does not work the other way (we gift him $$).

 

[Simon_c]

OK. Got it, (not checked the save yet)
I'll have a look in a couple of hours, and play tonight.

I guess it will be another late night, after finishing botm03 at 0100....

 

[Simon_c]

Checked out the save. Alex may (or may not) gift us some dosh, but he will buy monotheism of us. That will give us 10 turns for some walls, research phants, and get a few into the build queue.

In the mean time, I guess we need some cats in to defend first, and some spears. Time to :whip:

I'll play tonight (hopefully)

 

[Simon_c]

OK. Here goes.

sc01-ts5

turn0: pre-flight. 400AD 201/750

Alex has a stack 2SE of Navajo, and I think he will declare next turn! That's where I'd put them if I was going to attack.

I did a quick test off line, and a tech trade won't stop Alex from attacking.

So, I ask Alex for some dosh. How about 100 good buddy ?

Spoiler :

Great, hopefully that will keep him at bay for this round.
While we're there, I'll close borders so that his settler party in the south keeps put.


Turn 1: 415AD. 202

Lots happens at that turn end

Spoiler :

We're so un powerful we don't even rank on the list, and Alex is #1.... [gulp]


We do get metal casting though, set HBR next (for phants)

Spoiler :

we are now 2 million people too..

Spoiler :

And we put Alex is in the Palace. :crazy:
[/spoiler]

[/spoiler]

I put some cats in the queue. at memphis. The plan is to pop the spears after the walls in Navajo are done and we revolt into theo

I'll keep the whipping for just before turn 10 of the peace deal for phants.

I set the chariot in the south to tail Alex's archer down there.

I've also set the chariot outside of Ephesus ready to disconnect Alex iron, and sent the spy to the copper. Hopefully we have enough Eps.

Turn 2: 203/750
Worker at Alexandria set to chop the jungle. Mainly so if Alex goes for there, we can use some cats.

Worker near Heliopolis over to the forest to pre-chop that for phants. We may need a shorter road from Helopolis to Navajo too.

turn 3: 445AD 204
Bahh.
We've lost a quarry at Memphis, and we got sabbed near navajo. Fortunaly it was just the pigs not horses or iron/copper.

The walls finish in Navajo, I revolt to Theo, and set another spear in the queue there.

I'm :smoking: and it's not even alte yet. I Just noticed that we've got priests in Amsterdam, and we really need the production there. I put the back to work.
Swap the spy for scientist in Helo too.

Specialists are getting us 18 per turn. HBR has 281 to go. I want to switch out of rep and into police state for 25% production boost. Even if it slows HBR by 1 turn, I think it's worth it.

I whip the resulting unhappiness away in Memphis, Heliopolis & thees, (Thebes still at 1)

War chariots and cats. Chariots are still even against alexes phalanx.


I pillage the road between Maycene and Pharsalos too just to keep Alex busy.

Turn 4: 460AD 205/750
Set Amsterdam to stagnate and max
Units pop in lots of places. Send them all north.

Turn 5: 475AD 206
3 more units built. And Alex is rebuilding the road
Alex is chariot heavy, so we need more spears.

Turn 6: 490 AD: 207/750

Thebe to build spear with lots of overflow.
Amsterdam spear
Helo: Cat (will aim for a 2 unit whip again) Sorry for the
Memphis, Starving -1 building a spear
Elphantne: Spear & Stagnate.

Workers N of Alexandria finish chopping the jungle. Send them to the pigs near Navajo.

Spy arrives at the copper and sleeps.

Turn 7: 505AD 208/750
Spear and cat trained.
Er, just noticed our unit cost has gone through the roof. If Alex doesn't attack us, we need to attack him,. Hope that isn't a

Turn 8: 520AD 209/750
Get HBR

Spoiler :

Set to a slow machinary. Drop tech down to 0 and we're still at -2.
I hire the priests back at Amsterdam, to try to get a bit more money.
We can fire some warriors if things get bad I think in a couple of turns we can leave Police state and go back to representation anyway. I figure 1 round of phants, then we'll just stuff the queues until we run out of troop choices and see where we're at.

I pillage the road again cos I'm like that.

I take the pair of axes + spear towards the settler party waiting to cross our borders ne of Memphis.

I send a worker who was roading north of Helo E to cottage some grassland.

A couple of random events we didn't have any choice over

Spoiler :

Spoiler :

Turn 9: 535AD 210/750
A GG born IAFL. Looks like some fighting going on over there Which is good.
Whip Helio, Thebes, Navajo and Elephantine again for a phants.
Phants due in 4 from Ams and 2 memphis

Turn 10: 550AD 211/750

4 phants trainied this turn. !!
And look at the power graph now.

Much better, and a chance of taking the war to Alex. If he doesn't attack, we need to burn some units so we'd better attack him
The 10 turns are up, so I would expect him to cancel the treaty now and attack next turn. Lets see.

Spoiler :

I've got workers in place to road up between Alexandria and Helio as the current route is very long. Feel free to do something better if though.

I think we need to hold off the whip now too. maybe a spell in cast system + representation ? By the time WW is bothering us, we can go back to police state. (Oh the fun side of spiritual )

Doh. Probably should have got a tririme out at Alexandria. Sorry.


So, we've a spy on Alexes copper, and a chariot read to disconnect his iron. Do we declare now and to disconnect his metal, or later and hope the chariot survies the first wave ?

I don't *think* there are any more gotos.

Here's the save.
http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=171659&stc=1&d=1205796347

And the roster

Roster:
1: Simon_c --just played--
2: S.ilver **UP NOW **
3: Madtown --on deck--
4: playshogi
5: tiberion02 >>Skip<<

 

[S.ilver]

lol. Nice turns, but your report is bugged . The first screenshot is inverted (unless that was intentional).

Nice work with the power boosting, the power graph looks pretty good. Hopefully that will keep Alex off us (or allow us to go after him). Although odds aren't good, because I notice Alex's stack is still sitting in Pharsalos. LOTS of cats.

Will wait for some input (especially on techs) before I play. Our tech rate is lousy, and machinery will take forever. Archery says 12 turns, and I could probably eventually help that along. It would give us Archers and Horse Archers. Although we aren't really hurting for Archers for city defense (a good offense is better), however HAs will eat Alex's catapult stacks. This may be irrelevant if Alex chooses to attack us immediately once peace is up, and Catapults aren't particularly powerful if we hit his stack first.

If he decides to come after us next turn, would the beg for gold trick work again? And would we want to do that, or just get this Alex attack over with? (in my experience, when the AI decides to go after you, they will eventually, no matter how you stall)

 

[Simon_c]

Doh, somehow the image got rotates 180degrees, and I think I flipped it instead of rotating it. I'll sort it out tomorrow.

I think we should take war now. We've got too many units in the field to delay much longer.
If we're choosing the time, then I'd load the build queues up again, then attack. That way we can replace troops.

If we do attack now, we can cut his metal in turn 1, which should delay re-enforcements by at least 5 turns.

There should be some cats and phants heading north too. I figured the cats would resist alexes cats, and be good for taking the stack out as it approached. Phants would just be good

 

[playshogi]

I'd wait for Alex to attack, or, at least if we declare then wait to attack his stacks in the field. I also wonder the importance of pillaging iron and copper. Our units can handle anything he can build, unlike against Willem. The cost to pillage copper by the spy is unknown, but it's only 313:ep: to attempt to steal a tech, like aesthetics, or compass, or even archery. I think that would be a better use for our spy.

 

[Simon_c]

good point Playshogi. Getting Aesthetics would be good on the path to the GLib.
I guess it depends how long the war will take.
Horse archers do seem like a good investment right now. Maybe we should tech that during the first round of the war, then build them during the forced piece, then finish alex off.

I don't think we can afford to keep many of his cities though. maybe his Capitol and (eventually) put the forbidden city there ? It will mean more settlers, but as long as we get the financial techs in quickly after we get rid of Alex, and then fill the continent up.

 

[Madtown]

Just checked the save, good buildup of forces simon.

IMO, we have 2 options for this war.

Plan A: Defeat Alex and win at all costs. Either wait until he declares or declare on him and wipe his stack out in the open ground. Then, through a long drawn-out battle of attrition, we slowly conquer his cities one by one. This will likely take a considerable number of turns and put us behind in tech (compared to the other continents). We will need many catapults to defeat him as we are equal in tech and don't have any counter units that he lacks.

Plan B: Pillage him back to the stone age. This plan will begin the same as A, with us taking out his large stack in Pharsalos. Once this is done, we divide our forces into pillaging parties consisting of phants, axes, and chariots and pillage everything in his territory. We can raze cities if the oppurtunity exists and the losses would be minimal, but the ultimate goal is to slow Alex down until we get maces and can take him out for good.

TBH, I'm not sure which is better. Plan A will probably take more time and troops, but the rewards are immediate and the battle is final. Plan B could allow us to chase the G library and continue to patch up the economy, but might still bog us down too much.

Either way, I agree that the spy should be used to steal techs and not pillage - Aesthetics would be a good choice. Machinery and archery would be nice for next techs to get x-bows out.

Not sure how we will wage war and continue to build troops, while still maintaining a decent research rate. We may have to rely on pillage/city capture money to fund deficit research for awhile.

 

[S.ilver]

550AD (210):

Preflight check. 4 Spears, 3 Axes, 3 Chariots, a Cat and a Phant sit in Navajo waiting for Alex's attack. We also have a couple of spears protecting the road outside. Meanwhile, Alex has 3 Spears, 3 Catapults, 4 Chariots, and a Phalanx that have a good probability of coming after us next turn. I'm somewhat concerned about his massed cats, but we look like we can hold if we hit his stack as it comes to us. Najavo also has walls which are nice if we need to buy some time, but I'm hoping we won't. Doesn't have a Barracks and I notice that we were building one at some point. Oh well.

Note that my wheat was never hooked up, but that's largely irrelevant now, due to happiness being our cap.

Two unmoved workers head further into our territory to chop more jungle.

565AD (211):

Peace ends with Alex, and his previously mentioned stack of units (minus one fortified spearman), move to the border.

A bunch of stuff finished building this turn, and went back to domestic matters. Since we're going to be fighting, I go to those cities and change them to more military builds. We passed Alex on the power graph this turn.

Spoiler :

Navajo: Spear -> Axe
Elephantine: Spear -> Cat
Heliopolis: Cat -> Cat
Memphis: Phant -> Cat
Thebes: Cat -> Sword

Units moving en masse to the front, one move at a time so I don't get them mixed up. Workers who built the pasture in front of Navajo beat a hasty retreat.

580AD (212):

Spoiler :

Hilariously, Alex's attack with a Chariot got through before his message did. It died horribly on an Elephant though. Alex also pillaged our fishing boats (boo hoo). Stupidly, he has a work boat right near Memphis and our Galley, so it dies.

Alex settler party is on the move. It's moved off the forest 1NW. Lowest XP Axeman has 3XP. He gets Combat1, and a 50% chance against the Phalanx. He wins! (Takes XP to 7!) Spearman goes in umpromoted with a 98% chance and gets us a free worker.

Now for Alex's intruding stack. It's down a Chariot, but still pretty big. 5XP Catapult promotes double barrage, goes in with 58% chance of withdrawal in Cat vs Cat action and gets away. Dual promotion on second 5XP catapult, same deal, goes in Cat vs Cat, withdraws. Alex's stack is now all damaged except for the lead Catapult. Axeman promotes Combat 1 and Charge, but the Cat then disappears off the stack, to be replaced by the Phalanx. Go in with 85% odds and win.

George Patton born in Amsterdam.

Spoiler :

Shock Elephant time!

First shock elephant... gets owned by a spear But that's ok because the is down to 0.1 health, and Alex is rapidly running out of units which are not chariots. 2nd Elephant only has 3XP so gets combat and mops up the other healthy spear. We are down to 1 healthy cat, 2 crippled ones, the almost dead spear, and the chariots. Spearman gets combat 1 and charge. Fresh cat stays at the top of the defenders (no duh). Only has a 68% chance to win so shrug and charge. Manages to kill the cat (yay).

Only quality units left are the 4 chariots and they all got hit by collateral from the cats. Low XP spearmen from the city get the honours, and all 3 chariots are dead. Remaining 2 cats are free XP for the two CR Axemen in Navajo, and they get mop up duty. 0.1HP spear is taken out with a war chariot, who retreats inside the city.

Total casualty count for this turn: 1 Shock Elephant at good odds .

Total casualty count for Alex: 5 Chariots, 1 Phalanx, 3 Catapults, and 2 Spears.

Curse, because I forgot to change to Archery on turn 0. Change to it now O.o

No good candidates for a MASH unit yet, so I settle the Great General in Elephantine. We will be getting plenty more soon anyways.

All fighting done for this turn, so get to the cities. Thebes is at the back end of our empire, and Alex's troops in that area have been eliminated for now. Dial up a forge for extra production and happy from our gold.

I REMEMBER that we have a spy in Alex land (he was fortified so I forgot about him). Send him into Athens to see what mischief we can cause (pillaging the copper is useless because Alex has Iron).

595AD (213):

Ok, Spy in Athens, let's see what he can do. We have one option to steal tech. Let's give it a shot.

Spoiler :

Well I guess I just wasted a turn of our pitiful research. Spy magically teleports back to Thebes. We were on Machinery before, so I put it back to that.

Ok, sorting out wounded at Navajo this turn. One of our unpromoted 5XP chariots becomes our Medic. Mass waits ordered for healing.

Elephantine starts on our first Horse Archer.

Heliopolis also became pissed last turn because I clearly wasn't watching it closely enough and it grew. Cat done in 1 turn, so I'll look at it after.

I take a look at the damage we did to Alex on the Power graph last turn.

Spoiler :

610AD (214):

Ok, cat done at Heli, set it on a Temple.

Mass moving of units this turn, preparing two attack forces, one at Navajo, and one from Alexandria.

625AD (215):

Alex finishes some walls in Pharsalos >.<

Navajo's library finishes, start... uh, a Barracks. Research has to drop to 0%, so I'll have the means to destroy Pharsalos in 2 turns.

640AD (216):

Dump a crapload of units beside Pharsalos. Bleeding 8GPT from supply.

655AD (217):

Random Horse Archer that showed up near Pharsalos gets fragged by a spearman.

Costs rise to 10GPT, and we only have 6 left. Need to take Pharsalos this turn, no matter the casualties (casualties would actually be a good thing, cutting down our costs). Bombard down to 22% defense with our cats (damnit).

Low XP shock phant goes first and dies. Spearman hurt. Next Shock phant kills the other spearman. CR1 Axe against the Phalanx dies, Phalanx down to half health. CR2 Axe has to go up against the archer and wins. Second CR2 Axe up against swords and wins. CR1 Swordsman deals with the wounded Spearman. Catapult comes to the top of the stack, but my Charge Spearman brings up the Phalanx at less that great odds. Give double Combat to a War Chariot, but it dies to the Cat (one less unit we need to pay upkeep on!) Catapult is hurt though. Phalanx is back up and it gets completely trashed by the high XP Shock Phant.

Nothing left in the city except Chariots and the wounded Cat, so easy XP for the Spears. 93 gold in takings and raze Pharsalos to the ground. Surviving chariots start razing Alex's cottages.

Spoiler :

Up to 116 gold, losing 4 per turn.

All builds in cities were subbed for infrastructure. Change Civics to Representation, Caste System, and Organized Religion. War Weariness won't be that bad because we didn't start the war, and Alex is the one losing units. We also cannot afford to build any more units. Any angry faces we get from it are easily combated by Representation. Caste System to get some bloody merchants hired, and Organized to speed up those buildings!

Well damn, Heliopolis is our 6th biggest city so gets no help for its angry person from Representation. No other cities are angry about the war yet.

670AD (218):

AP Vote comes up again, and this time we vote for ourselves (no point fooling ourselves thinking we can please Alex).

Mass moving units back into our territory and towards Navajo, so they can head north and raze Ephesus.

685AD (219):

We win the AP. No surprise.

Navajo's border also popped, shortening our supply line. We've back to +5 gold. All units now back within border. I up science to 10%, but that puts our gold to -4. Let's see how long that is sustainable.

700AD (220):

All units skipped this turn in Navajo, and all will be fully healed for next turn, with the exception of one shock phant and one shock spear.

Spoiler :

Alex will give us Aesthetics and 45 Gold if we stop kicking his ass. I'll leave that up to someone else to decide.

Roster:
1: Simon_c
2: S.ilver <-- Just Played --
3: Madtown **UP NOW **
4: playshogi <-- On Deck --
5: tiberion02 >>Skip<<

 

[Simon_c]

Great set of turns Silver.

Aesthetics would be great from Alex, but I'd like to take a couple more of his cities before going for 10 turns of piece. Then finish him off.

I'd guess that the offer will only get better, but others may know better.

I would have put the spy to sleep for 3 turns before steeling tech, we may have got a aesthetics that way, but archery for HAs is a good thing.

The only thing we have to be careful of is running out of money !

There are some warriors we can delete holding fort back in the south.

I'd say take a few more cities from Alex, then get some tech for piece. Then try to rebuild the economy, get macemen and banking then we can finish Alex and hold his cities while we fill up out continent.

 

[S.ilver]

Sorry about any . I know squat about spies in BtS, only that they have to have full movement to do any ops, so I didn't know we might've had a chance to get something more expensive. Although I doubt it, because from the breakdown from stealing Archery, it costs more Espionage points to steal more expensive techs, and we are already lacking espionage next to Alex!

I already deleted the Warrior defending Amsterdam because there's a sword or some other metal unit already holding the line. I've refrained from deleting some of the other Warriors, because we don't have other units in the area (in retrospect, I probably should've left some of the newly built ones where they stood).

IMO we should keep the push against Alex up. We have enough money to go another turnset at least, and since the only thing War Chariots are good for anymore is pillaging, we should be in decent shape, as Alex has some decent looking cottages.

 

[Simon_c]

Sorry about any . I know squat about spies in BtS, only that they have to have full movement to do any ops, so I didn't know we might've had a chance to get something more expensive. Although I doubt it, because from the breakdown from stealing Archery, it costs more Espionage points to steal more expensive techs, and we are already lacking espionage next to Alex!

We have about 700 EPs left, It's possible it wouldn't have been enough, but there's a discount for a stationary spy, up to 3 turns I think, so it might have been. Anyway, as I said it's no big deal. HAs are always useful,