SCENARIO: Age of Exploration (1492)

SEA - in response to your PM :)
Topographical feature as posted long ago here (of course, overdid the hills, but it gives you an idea on how Indochina is split into bassins and plateau). Note jungles are not everywhere; watershed were very rich paddies with big cities.

Also, I nice UNEP map for topographical South and SE Asia to show there IS a lots of hills (and jungle on the top of some) in the area:
csemnt.gif


A good political map for SEA (but in the 19th century - 1886): see http://www.dcothai.com/download/thai-map.jpg

Ok, and for your request for help in drawing that map, here is a quick work of it. I hope it fits on your map. Of course, if we have only Ayutthaya, it needs adaptation [PS. Borders are NOT accurate!].

Spoiler :

SEA_CIV.jpg

 
SEA - in response to your PM :)

Thanks a lot for your help, i reaffirmed some cities i the area, and also added/changed a few ones.

I have a question to ask, anybody knows how to handle the View FOG for each nation? or its global to all players? I kinda modified it, but all players see the same..
 
Two things are making me think today.

The first is what i will do with Leaderheads, since there are a lot of countries that won't have ready made Leaderheads I'm deciding using Flags would be the way to go, so its leaders vs flags, i know leaders are sexier, but flags are easier to make..

About Starting year..
1942 seems a but premature to me, mainly a lot of states that i placed in the game didn't even existed, this includes some key players like Netherlands, Safavid and Mughal..

Im thinking moving the starting year to somewhere near 1520, before Portuguese stablish its colonies in Brazil, thus giving Spain the main advantage in America and the Portuguese in their Route to India..

What do you think i should do?

Edit:
I think i have to options:
Start 1492 as planned, this will allow some kind of colonial race, but might result in some unhistorical start for Spain and Portugal.

Start in 1507 and give a few settlements to Spain and Portugal..
To Portugal:
Maranhao (North Brazil).
Socotra and Kilwa or Sofala in East Africa.
To Spain:
Santo Domingo, Trinidad and San Juan (Caribbean).

Political Update
Spoiler :

Political Preview of what is done
preview.jpg

 
I vote for Prussia and Morocco. After all, I was the one that :crazyeye: suggested them.
 
Thanks for the tips.

Yes i was thinking in having this as starter ships for Medieval era.

Cog (Tansport, Should this remain Sea or Ocean faring?)

Galleys (Combat, Sea, Might be called Light Galleys)

Heavy Galleys (Combat, Sea)

Galleasses (Combat, Sea, Similar to Heavy, but flagship kinda unit, with better stats also available for Venetians, Spainsh and Ottoman, maybe Built at a Specific Shipyard Wonder for Med)

This will be the first ship of the Exploration Era, this tech would be available from start to Portuguese, Spanish, Dutch, English and French.

Carrack (Combat, Ocean Going for Portuguese, Spanish, Dutch, English and French Mainly)

What do you think?

In the early 16th century, Europeans had only two classes of effective Oceangoing vessels.
They were: The Carrack, and the Caravel.
The Cog, (While a reasonably ;) well build ship, and much used by the Country's of northern Europe) was by no means an oceangoing ship.
 
Is their any settler unit to settle the inetior of north america?
 
This era colonization won't cover Interior America, Interior Africa and Pacific Isles.. For the sake of historic reality this scenario won't as well..

Another thing is i made 1 African city out of reach of Europeans, African warriors will be able to pass Jungles so they will keep bothering Europeans until the game ends, maybe i will add 1 more city inside Africa.
Also I'm planning to mod war chief native Americans (Iroquois, Cherokees, Guaranis, etc) as barbarian Camps, some of them will remain inaccessible for Europeans as well.

What do you think?
 
THe Ohio river valley should certainly be habitable. Anzac territories certainly shouldn't be habitable. Most colonial capitals were interior city's I would consider making certain locations habitable. Some of interior brazil. Mexico city practicly the capital of the New World was in the Center of Mexico.
 
Hey, this sound like a good scenario.

For the situation in the German realms.

Regarding the prussians: If you plan to start this scenario by 1520 I would divide the Holy Roman Empire in two parts representing the different fractions after the reformation. One is united with Österreich and includes Bavaria, Cologne and Westphalia (good point for Horses btw) and you could call it Habsburg Domain (or so). The Protestant one reaches from Frankfurt to the North Sea and westward to Königsberg(1), including also Saxonia. Other good names would be Protestant alliance and Catholic league. You could also have them in a constant war, which should prevent them from colonizing. Abolish the Hanse and replace it by the Netherlands if you like them. (Naturally, the Netherlands were founded only in 1600 but in the 16th century it was becoming rapidly Calvinistic.

If you start it at 1492, it's more difficult. Prussia was non-existent at that time. The Hanse was never an independent nation but a league of cities in Germany, Danmark, Sweden and even Russia with the same city rights. It would be inappropriate to make them an own civ. I would rather give these cities an unbuildable improvement with some benefits and an autoproducted cog which can't be built by other means.

If you introduced the Holy Roman Empire as an own civ you should give them a high corruption rate representing the constant struggle between its vassalls.

I definitely would prefer the 1520 solution for Germany.

For Österreich: I would make them a constant enemy of the Ottomans and maybe a constant ally of the Spanish. The family of the Habsburg hold the Spanish crown until Spanish succession war in 1700.

These were just a few suggestions. I would really love to play this scenario.

(1) Actually the historical Prussia was founded in 1525 when the head of the Teutonic knights became Protestant.
 
Hey, this sound like a good scenario.

For the situation in the German realms.

Regarding the prussians: If you plan to start this scenario by 1520 I would divide the Holy Roman Empire in two parts representing the different fractions after the reformation. One is united with Österreich and includes Bavaria, Cologne and Westphalia (good point for Horses btw) and you could call it Habsburg Domain (or so). The Protestant one reaches from Frankfurt to the North Sea and westward to Königsberg(1), including also Saxonia. Other good names would be Protestant alliance and Catholic league. You could also have them in a constant war, which should prevent them from colonizing. Abolish the Hanse and replace it by the Netherlands if you like them. (Naturally, the Netherlands were founded only in 1600 but in the 16th century it was becoming rapidly Calvinistic.

If you start it at 1492, it's more difficult. Prussia was non-existent at that time. The Hanse was never an independent nation but a league of cities in Germany, Danmark, Sweden and even Russia with the same city rights. It would be inappropriate to make them an own civ. I would rather give these cities an unbuildable improvement with some benefits and an autoproducted cog which can't be built by other means.

If you introduced the Holy Roman Empire as an own civ you should give them a high corruption rate representing the constant struggle between its vassalls.

I definitely would prefer the 1520 solution for Germany.

For Österreich: I would make them a constant enemy of the Ottomans and maybe a constant ally of the Spanish. The family of the Habsburg hold the Spanish crown Spanish succession war in 1700.

These were just a few suggestions. I would really love to play this scenario.

(1) Actually the historical Prussia was founded in 1525 when the head of the Teutonic knights became Protestant.

I couldn't have said it better!

BTW, welcome to CFC, Saint-Louis! :)
 
Hey, this sound like a good scenario.

For the situation in the German realms.
Regarding the prussians..
I definitely would prefer the 1520 solution for Germany.
For Österreich: I would make them a constant enemy of the Ottomans and maybe a constant ally of the Spanish. The family of the Habsburg hold the Spanish crown until Spanish succession war in 1700.

These were just a few suggestions. I would really love to play this scenario.

(1) Actually the historical Prussia was founded in 1525 when the head of the Teutonic knights became Protestant.

Thanks a lot for your time and suggestions, ok here is what i think.. :goodjob:

I was thinking about Prussia, and there is no chance it could be added into this scenario, just for historical sake, i had confused its founding years as you are doing now with the Duchy of Prussia, that have nothing to do with Prussia, except that it was the excuse to create a Kingdom inside the Empire Boundaries.

Read this..
Spoiler :

Frederick William, the "Great Elector" of Brandenburg-Prussia, died in 1688. His possessions passed to his son Frederick III (1688-1701) who became King Frederick I of Prussia (1701-1713). With the exception of the Duchy of Prussia, all of Brandenburg's lands were a part of the Holy Roman Empire, by this time under the all but hereditary nominal rule of the House of Habsburg. Since there was only one King of the Germans within the Empire, Frederick gained the assent of Emperor Leopold I (in return for alliance against France in the War of the Spanish Succession) to his adoption (January 1701) of the title of "King in Prussia" based on his non-Imperial territories. The title came into general acceptance with the Treaty of Utrecht (1713).

It was taken from here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Prussia

So if Prussia was founded in 1701, there is little to do with em if we start in 1492, 1520, or whatever year we start, its a long gap.
For example with Mughal and Safavid their creation is arround the 1520s so its easy to add em even before that.

About the Hanse, since this game is about Exploration and Commerce, i tough it was a good idea to include this as a CIV, the Hanseatic League was one of the greatest merchant organizations by the 14th Century, by the start of the Scenario Lubeck was one of the greates trade centers in Europe, Only Veneto could compete with em.

Basically the hanse existed until 1862, way Long after this Scenario ends
Spoiler :

This is how it ends
By the late 16th century, the League imploded and could no longer deal with its own internal struggles, the social and political changes that accompanied the Reformation, the rise of Dutch and English merchants, and the incursion of the Ottoman Turks upon its trade routes and upon the Holy Roman Empire itself. Only nine members attended the last formal meeting in 1669 and only three (Lübeck, Hamburg and Bremen) remained as members until its final demise in 1862.


It would be great to give em a Powerfull merchant machinery at the Begining, but later, they will decline, in favour of nations like the Dutch, the English and Portugal.

I don't think Bavaria should be added to Austria by any time, they weren't that close anyway..

The German Princes kinda emulate the neutral German Principalities, Austria is pretty well modded for the era, even added Czec cities to them, The Hanse is the Civ that Balance the German Princes, so they are not a big Threat, but not that easy to get dominated as well, and maybe they should be locked in an alliance (Hanse and Princes).
Making the Roman Empire, would be madness, as they didn't worked as one in most situations, even more in this years, with Reformation and all.. Ideas?

As for the endless war with the Austrians and Ottomans, well it would be great to mod it, i don't know if CIV 3 Handles events as CIV 2 did, but setting a locked alliance war from start, will doom one of the two civs in a few years, so even when i would love too do it, i don't know how to handle this yet..

About the Habsburg, yes i totally agree with you they were United under one King, but they were Separated kingdoms, Joining em would create a pretty unbalance situation, creating a Locked Alliance might work, but still this Alliance will be huge.. Any ideas are welcome on this as well.

I'm open to suggestions, but please have in count game balance and game mechanics, not all political situatons are so easy to reflect on CIV 3...

Notes: Have in mind this Scenario is about Trade and Exploration, thats is why some of the choices i make will try to reflect and encourage an Exploration, Conquest and Trade game, all the countries not involved in this aspects are here to add flavour to the game, and historical reality.


Edit:
Here is a map of the European map over Germany, maybe you can give suggestions, but you can see, how i gave more Priority to Netherlands than German Princes for example.
Also you would see i added Koenigsberg, this was to allow me to create Prussia if i decided to do so.
Spoiler :

The map
euromap.jpg

 
Hey, this sound like a good scenario.

For the situation in the German realms.

Regarding the prussians: If you plan to start this scenario by 1520 I would divide the Holy Roman Empire in two parts representing the different fractions after the reformation. One is united with Österreich and includes Bavaria, Cologne and Westphalia (good point for Horses btw) and you could call it Habsburg Domain (or so). The Protestant one reaches from Frankfurt to the North Sea and westward to Königsberg(1), including also Saxonia. Other good names would be Protestant alliance and Catholic league. You could also have them in a constant war, which should prevent them from colonizing. Abolish the Hanse and replace it by the Netherlands if you like them. (Naturally, the Netherlands were founded only in 1600 but in the 16th century it was becoming rapidly Calvinistic.

If you start it at 1492, it's more difficult. Prussia was non-existent at that time. The Hanse was never an independent nation but a league of cities in Germany, Danmark, Sweden and even Russia with the same city rights. It would be inappropriate to make them an own civ. I would rather give these cities an unbuildable improvement with some benefits and an autoproducted cog which can't be built by other means.

If you introduced the Holy Roman Empire as an own civ you should give them a high corruption rate representing the constant struggle between its vassalls.

I definitely would prefer the 1520 solution for Germany.

For Österreich: I would make them a constant enemy of the Ottomans and maybe a constant ally of the Spanish. The family of the Habsburg hold the Spanish crown until Spanish succession war in 1700.

These were just a few suggestions. I would really love to play this scenario.

(1) Actually the historical Prussia was founded in 1525 when the head of the Teutonic knights became Protestant.

The Hohenzollern dynasty got their first holdings, The Duchy of Brandenburg in 1415. They also got the minor state of Krossen in 1482.
So Birdmanz can still add Brandenburg/Prussia to the game.
 
@Birdmanz
Some comments about the historical situation of Brandenburg/Prussia. Basically RedwallFortress is correct. Though Brandenburg and Prussia were different entities in 1525 they were connected through family ties which resulted in the unification in 1618. So it would quite reasonable to have a "Brandenburg/Prussia" civ with the cities of Königsberg, Stettin and Berlin.
About the Hanse, since this game is about Exploration and Commerce
Maybe I lost this aspect a little bit. It would be very interesting to see what had happened if the Hanse took part in the colonization of the new world. But this would be already an alternative history situation. F.ex. in 1525 the Hansestadt Lübeck attacked the Hansestadt Visby (btw the name is not correct on your map). So much for the unity of them. In the 16th century the Hanse was more a legal connection than an actual one.

Okay, I don't know if you will integrate the denominational conflict which arose in the 1520s in the scenario. I rather would, giving the importance of this conflict until 1648 which destroyed the last bits of unity of the H. R. Empire. But it's your scenario. ;)

Now, some suggestions about the map (given that you leave the political situation there as it is now)
* Change Vibsy to Visby, just a spelling error ;-) Visby should be Swedish anyways, the Hanse wasn't important it that region.
* Saarbrücken wasn't important at the time. You could choose Trier or Worms instead. Or try to change the locations in that area in order to make place for Cologne which was very important at the time.
* Instead of Hannover which was very unimportant choose Magdeburg or Münster. If you choose Münster you could make it another Hanse city because it was connected with the Hanse. You could give them a Horse resource to represent the long-standing horse-breeding tradition in the region of Westphalia.
*Brno should change to Olmütz or Olomouc which was the capital of Moravia at the time.
*It is not visible on the map but Bruges would be the natural starting point for the Hanse for overseas expeditions. It was an important Hanse city even at that time although it was under Habsburg reign.

I hope I could help you with that.

Ah, another still left. Don't trust Wikipedia too much. While the informations are rarely directly untrue, historical information is very unbalanced often. Using Wikipedia, there is no good way to find f.ex. the information which city was important and which not at a given time. Maybe you look some things up in an encyclopedia.
 

About Prussia:
Yes i knew about Brandenburg, etc, i just wish CIV3 had events, to mod Prussia out, but the fact is creating a nation that in 1500 is called Prussia would be pretty unhistorical, i just don't know how to handle it, tough ideas are welcome.

About Visby:
I always mistyped this city, i will correct it.
And by no means Visby was Swedish in 1500, it was conquered by Sweden somewhere near 1640s. I think it was affiliated with the Hanse at the start of the Scenario.

About the Protestantism and the Conflict:
Well again, if there are no events in CIV3(i think there aren't, as i don't recall any mod using em, please correct me if I'm wrong), i can't think in a way to reflect this conflict.

About the Hanse:
I wasn't really planning them to go on world exploration and conquest, its just that making an united Germany could Crush Netherlands or France at ease, and this scenario is more about them..
The Hanse would be a strong trading nation at game start, that was all i had in mind for them atm.
How can i mod Reality and keep game balance and focus on exploration and trade, while trying to give flavor and political reality to Europe, well thats not easy..

About Cities:
Thanks for the Tips i will try to see what i can do, as for the map, you will see there is not much place for adding cities, i just tried to calculate which city would fit in the spot i could use and put the name on it, Europe is too populated to move a lot of cities, so its not easy task, less in Germany because i gave more importance to other countries like Netherlands.
There are a lot of limitations in Terrain, the map is not that big to add the depth we all want, I'm just giving a try.

About Resources:
I would love to add realistic resource locations in Europe, but there is something you need to have in mind.
Since overseas trade is disabled, i added all the strategic resources to the countries i wanted (for example i gave horses to countries i want to have better land forces, like Austria).
So right now European resources are pretty unhistorical, all European nations have Iron and Saltpeter, which are the basic resources to build Land Units, others have Wood which is required for Ships, others have Horses too.
I can move some of this resources within a nation to reflect a reality in where they extracted em if they did, but i can't take a required resource from a nation like Netherlans, historical or not, its just for game Purposes.
So unless anybody have a better idea, i regret to tell you, historical reality in European mainland resources can't be moded.

As for trade resources and luxuries, I'm planning to be as historical as i can in where a resource was, most of this resources are overseas resources that will allow you to build plantations to generate trade shipments (In Europe you will find a few here and there, just to give some Nations starting trading power).

Edit:
Brugge is on the map, but is Austrian (Brugge and Brussels).

One thing we should have in mind, the keys players of this Scenario should be this ones:
Portugal
Spain
France
England
Netherlands
Austria
Ottoman
Russia

I will try to avoid adding things that will hurt any of this countries more than historical reality did, thats why for example i gave more importance to Netherlands over German Princes, thats why also i don't know yet what to do with the German situation, and came up with the Hanse and Princes thing.
 
Keep in mind, Brandenburg began to engage in exploration and colonization in the 17th century. They were the only German principality to do so.
IMO, they HAVE TO be in the game...

Simply call Prussia "Brandenburg"... and make the Prussian cities (that really would amount to Königsberg only) relatively underdeveloped to reduce their importance initially.
 
Although I am not sure if should suggest it, but: You can possibly remove Switzerland from the Scenario to free up tags. Aside from a few selected periods, they were not Military, Politically active in Europe after the early 16th Century.
 
This scenario looks great. I'm looking forward to it. Just an idea, maybe you could give the Prussians some really tough units later in the tech tree.
 
About Old Belgium. Brugges was already going down then, after the plague, sedimentation of cannals and competetion. Antwerpen definitively was much more important. Sorry if you ALSO have Antwerpen, then fine :)

About events - no none, nada. CIV is there fort that... (or 2). But there are ways to simulate fake events by playing with the tech tree and improvements. To the risk of not sounding humble, please take a look at the mod linked in my sig. We did manage to have events and inflect the game in a historical direction even after 500 turns of gaming.
 
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