[SCENARIO] World War I

[isenchine]

First post updated with new link thanks to Rob (R8XFT)!

I have uploaded a new version. Changed the look of artilleries for the first model and of the poison gas as an alternative artillery (borrowed from dacubz145, art work by snafusmith I think). Second model is BtS artillery. Didn't want to use cruise missile as the art would be awkward for WW1. Poison gas was spread by different means, including by artillery. It's not really a satisfactory unit, should also explode in your face as it happened sometimes (accidents, winds changing rapidly), it should also prevent your own units to move into the plot! I'm not sure that the AI will use it a lot.

Added to all infantries the possibily to build forts, remove forests (linked), build roads/railroads.

Fixed a major flaw in differentiation of unit styles per countries, fixed several other cosmetic changes, changed the flags (borrowed from dacubz145). Not really happy though: one way or another, too many flags have the same colour in different order (realistic but not pragmatic).

Hope it's MP - didn't do any thing that could break it but I was wondering about the Python events. Never played MP, lousy player here, belgian footbal players better than me

Edit: uploaded new new version, forgot to add the workrate (75%) to infantries!

 

[Tigranes]

I must be missing something but new new version appears to be the same old one. Unless there is a new link, or something....

 

[isenchine]

Checked and it's OK: same link of course (it's the CFC database since it is below 10Mb), I don't understand what could go wrong there.

Edit: in Assets/XML/Units folder, the file CIV4UnitInfos should be dated 3 July 2014

 

[Tigranes]

I am sorry, but my Infantry still cannot build forts or roads. And all 3 artillery look the same. And yes I have the date 3 July. Can you post a screenshot of Infantry with Build Fort option?

 

[isenchine]

I suggest that you delete the mod and reinstall it. The folder name is WWI_Jon_Shafer_BtS319 (no change here). All my changes are save game compatible except for the flags.

On the screenshot, you will see the instructions available for the 'Infanterie allemande'. In the background, from left to right, you will see the first model of artillery, the 'poison gas' artillery and the second model of artillery corresponding to the BtS one.

 

[Sorry2Baked]

i have it working ive played 25 turns as Germany

this is my opinion so far: the french and russians have advanced arty before i discover my 2nd tech.

the number of soldiers and advanced arty the russians have in 1915 seems unrealistic.

in 1915 Germany gets 3 subs due to an event but i do not yet have the tech to build them myself (seems kinda stupid)

requiring to build the airport before building the plane (makes sense) it just takes too long to build 6-8 turns when u only have 70 total u might aswell just pump out infantry and arty.

Why not make it longer and increase the length of the years? that way one can experience all the techs.

The fact Germany is so far behind in tech is not accurate. (it came to my attention later on in game that u can ask the allies to change to what tech u want researched and this greatly improved speed)

You can make peace in 1915 but its all or nothing (make peace with Russia and its automatically peace with everyone!!) all 5 countries are linked together... thats bogus.

Italy is Germany's worst enemy?? thus wont trade with her (thats not right till spring 1916)

i will post again once the campaign is done

 

[Tigranes]

You can always chose the right difficulty and game speed, you know? Also use espionage.

 

[Sorry2Baked]

i have many a spy but none can steal techs only cause harm to the cities or steal pathetic sums of gold

 

[Tigranes]

Erasing mod helped!

I won time victory as Serbia, together with allies, who did horrible. My poor Serbia captured 7 cities, Romania 2, Russia 1. Germany captured Strasbourg, Venice, Lodz and wiped out Belgium. British troops never left their island, they really need some incentive, perhaps some unhistorical city on the Continent. Americans came in great numbers but could not hold to couple of German ports they managed to capture.

It is no wonder that Sorry2Baked cannot compete in techs with Entente. My team (on Noble) finished tech tree on turn 35. Meaning one can safely double the cost of all the techs. Otherwise things become too weird when there is no Future tech even -- for the half of the game science became unnecessary.

Russian revolution never came to pass, something needs to be done here, increase probability rate after Oct 1917 every turn? Neither did Arab revolt (which depends on 25 killed Ottoman units). Galipoli event is clearly needed with Allies landing in Turkey, and not just extra British units in Egypt as mod has now.

It is my understanding that you are not planning to improve this scenario any more. Which is understandable, but I hope you will reconsider. If you do -- single most important thing is range bombardment for artillery and Dreadnoughts. Please. WW1 is not a WW1 without normally functioning artillery. In this mod Tanks and Light Machine Gun rule the world. The British army on the western front made an exact calculation, that 59% of all deaths had been caused by artillery. The share of injuries from artillery was even higher (76% according to French army statistics, and 85% according to German records).

This has to be reflected somehow. First, what is the point for name "Light Artillery" and "Improved Light Artillery" if there is no heavy artillery to begin with ? If you don't like the idea of merging some range bombardment modcomps into this mod -- here is my 2 cents: take the regular bomber, give him range 1, rename him Heavy Artillery, and find some suitable graphic. There. One can "rebase" Heavy Artillery from city to city or to Fort (trench), making trenches very important. This unit will greatly enhance defence within your own cultural borders, while Light Artillery can be used when pushing into enemies territory.

Another important thing is nerfing Tanks and Light Machine Guns. This is not a WW2 after all. Tanks get enough bonus by being new class (Armored units), with no Anti Tank Infantry to counter them. 2 is unrealistic for WW1 tanks. Tanks should require factory. Light Mahine gun unit is the ultimate unit in this mod, it can attack and capture cities, while being Machine Gun in all the other respects. One should not be able to upgrade old Improved Machine guns to them. Instead armies should be able to build both units, with Light Machine Gun (Stormtroopers) units requiring Military Academies.

Counter-battery unit able to pick from the stack artillery units and destroy them is badly needed for this mod.

Serbian Tank looks like Armored Car, perhaps this mod could introduce them ( MP 2, unlike Tanks with MP 1).

Finally Poison gas killing units is good, but capturing cities is bad. I am not sure why you don't like them being missiles, even if they look like artillery (you are right about gas being delivered as shells). Make them able to kill weak units or soften strong units, but be one time use with collateral damage across the board.

Destroyers should not be able to see subs. 3 Subs Germans get for free should be able to terrorize Entente until they become able to build Subs themselves:

In 1914 the U-boat's chief advantage was to submerge; surface ships had no means to detect a submarine underwater, and no means to attack even if they could, while in the torpedo the U-boat had a weapon that could sink an armoured warship with one shot. Its disadvantages were less obvious, but became apparent during the campaign. While submerged the U-boat was virtually blind and immobile; boats of this era had limited underwater speed and endurance, so needed to be in position before an attack took place, while even on the surface their speed (around 15 knots) was less than the cruising speed of most warships and two thirds that of the most modern dreadnoughts.

Finally quick speed is the most realistic speed for the Great War where time counts by Months. But this implies that Techs need to be even more expensive.

 

[isenchine]

Wow! For almost three months I got zero reactions and now two reports in two days, thank you both!

I'll try to address everything, if only in a written way for now.

The first thing that comes to my mind is that I sense some reaction of unbalance which might come from this important change I made to the mod: I put eight countries in two teams as follows:

Team 0 (technically speaking): the Central Powers: Germany, Austria-Hungary, Ottomans
Team 1: the Entente: Russia, France, Great-Britain, Serbia, Belgium

All other players are different teams (different dates of intervention).

This was a request from the thread and it has pros and cons. Otherwise, Austria-H, Ottomans, Serbia could not match. As a consequence, I already doubled the cost of Techs in version 1. It explains that the peace with Russia is a peace with all Entente. Note that there are Python mechanisms to ensure that war is renewed asap. Tell me what you think of this.

More specifically, from Sorry2Baked's post:

number of Russian units in 1915 unrealistic: difficult for me to answer as I'm not an expert on WW1. It's a big country and according to wikipedia, they had a total force of 12,000,000 against 13,250,000 for Germany. Germany has to fight on 2 or 3 fronts, tough. In 1915, it's already Civ4 that is taking over...

Event 3 subs without tech: I could give them the tech in addition

Germany too far behind in Techs: see above + they actually start with one more Tech than Entente (Automated firearm = Machine Gun 1).

Airport before planes: I like it like that. Aeronautics was a young industry, not well developed yet. Don't forget that at the start, there are already 10 airports (London, Paris, Milan, Rome, Berlin, Vienna, St Petersburg, Moscow, Kiev, Constantinople).

Longer game: easy to adjust individually (edit map Max turns with a text editor, Notepad++ preferably)

Increase length of year: Maybe, but this would automatically be too much difference with months.

Italy is Germany's worst enemy: will look into it, they should be neutral at least.

That's all for this post. Next post will be specific answer to Tigranes.

 

[isenchine]

from Tigranes' post:

In general, I'm not against trying to improve this mod, especially if there is interest (like now). It's just that I'm not an expert on WW1, not even on BtS modding, so I need feedback especially since I admit not even playing the mod really

British troops never leave their islands: yes, a well-known problem in this thread, very Civ4 behaviour. But giving them an unhistorical city? I imagine the reaction of somebody else not having read these posts! Perhaps additional events?

Tech tree costs: see previous post, linked to Teams created. Advice needed about these teams! In a scenario within such a short span of time, I find it normal to have limited new technologies, I don't like the exageration of more is better. In this scenario, one tech = one new or improved unit.

Apart from that, I thought of putting back this 1914-1918 scenario into normal BtS, allowing for continuation, making it more a Scenario starting in 1914 (or even a bit before). A lot of work but doable, let's say to do in the future if it is found useful.

Russian Revolution, Arab revolt, Galipoli episode: I will check the events and see if I can create a new one based on the examples I have but it will take time.

Ranged bombardment: as you thought, I'm not keen to implement this as it requires a fundamental change, a custom dll. Will look into buffing the artilleries.

Improved Light Artillery: I think it refers to what is called "indirect fire", that's why it comes with the discovery of "Improved observation tactics".

As a side note, I understand less about Advanced infantry (Mobile Attack Doctrine, really?). Shouldn't it be a question of experience/promotions as several of them have already different statistics? Plus the art is not fundamentally different.

Heavy artillery: should be a new unit, implying restricted movements, like railway guns (will think of it, additional coding work).

Counter-battery unit: again another unit when artillery needs more power (or do I misunderstand you?, could it be artillery with promotions?).

Tanks - 2 Mov is too much: OK, 1 it will be.

Tanks should have factories as prereq.: then German tanks need to be created apart to have BUILDING_GERMAN_ASSEMBLY_PLANT as a prereq.

Machine Gun should not upgrade to Portable version: OK

Portable Machine Gun should req. Military Academy: a bit tough but OK. So without a GG, no Military Academy, right?

Serbian Tank looks like Armored Car, perhaps this mod could introduce them ( MP 2, unlike Tanks with MP 1): it's the 'regular' tank, only France, Germany + Austria-H, Great-Britain get a different version (same statistics). Sorry, but I don't understand MP 1 & 2

Poison gas damaging units, not cities (one time use with collateral damage): requires a different coding, I was thinking of a specific Python action but that will take me some time...

Destroyers should not see subs: OK.

About the implementation: first, I will need some feedback, then let's say during the course of the week and next weekend (I hope).

Edit: read about the difference between Armored cars & Tanks... Guess MP in this case = Movement Points... But do we need 2 different units, again?

Ranged bombardment: on second thoughts, might not require dll change. Will see.

 

[Tigranes]

I have been playing Civ since Civ 1 (the only computer game I play all my life, with 1 exception), so I have seem many WW1 scenarios. At some point I got completely bored with AI, it is incurable and MP became the only option for intelligent challenge. Civ 3 had a very good WW1 scenario, and we had a great time fighting each other, but I like Civ 4 the best. Currently TTT creators are working on very sophisticated WW1 scenario (In the Trenches). It will feature every single unit real life unit all civs had from the start (150 British destroyers), which makes management too tedious.

So, naturally, I see this mod as simple and fun, with not very steep learning curve, which only needs some conservative improvements only. I only ask to make things reasonable, not too sophisticated. Those more demanding players can play other mods. Most things are fine as is, AI Germany does not get overpowered by Entente, most battles go around the borders with no break through. I suggest to finalize this version few changes, and leave the rest (like continuing in BTS) for another modmod. Keep things simple in the spirit of BTS version of Jon Shafer's work with 72 turns, and if interested, create your own modmod like "WW1 and beyond" doubling everithing: techs, units, time, python events.

For right now lets create a conservative list of absolutely essential priorities. Like doubling the cost of all techs, making basic and improved units distinguishable, "cheating" range bombardment with fake bombers (100% chance evading interception).

And, yes, MP mean movement point.

P.S. you should really play this scenario at least once. It goes fast if you pick small country, just get a feel of it, pick Belgium and try to survive by demanding gold from allies and buying units.

 

[Sorry2Baked]

Wow! For almost three months I got zero reactions and now two reports in two days, thank you both!

I'll try to address everything, if only in a written way for now.

The first thing that comes to my mind is that I sense some reaction of unbalance which might come from this important change I made to the mod: I put eight countries in two teams as follows:

Team 0 (technically speaking): the Central Powers: Germany, Austria-Hungary, Ottomans
Team 1: the Entente: Russia, France, Great-Britain, Serbia, Belgium

All other players are different teams (different dates of intervention).

This was a request from the thread and it has pros and cons. Otherwise, Austria-H, Ottomans, Serbia could not match. As a consequence, I already doubled the cost of Techs in version 1. It explains that the peace with Russia is a peace with all Entente. Note that there are Python mechanisms to ensure that war is renewed asap. Tell me what you think of this.

More specifically, from Sorry2Baked's post:

number of Russian units in 1915 unrealistic: difficult for me to answer as I'm not an expert on WW1. It's a big country and according to wikipedia, they had a total force of 12,000,000 against 13,250,000 for Germany. Germany has to fight on 2 or 3 fronts, tough. In 1915, it's already Civ4 that is taking over...

Event 3 subs without tech: I could give them the tech in addition

Germany too far behind in Techs: see above + they actually start with one more Tech than Entente (Automated firearm = Machine Gun 1).

Airport before planes: I like it like that. Aeronautics was a young industry, not well developed yet. Don't forget that at the start, there are already 10 airports (London, Paris, Milan, Rome, Berlin, Vienna, St Petersburg, Moscow, Kiev, Constantinople).

Longer game: easy to adjust individually (edit map Max turns with a text editor, Notepad++ preferably)

Increase length of year: Maybe, but this would automatically be too much difference with months.

Italy is Germany's worst enemy: will look into it, they should be neutral at least.

That's all for this post. Next post will be specific answer to Tigranes.

i have 13 turns left. i will repost my thoughts as they have changed greatly.
by building only military units the entire game i was able to over come both the french the italians and russians. im also destroying all american troops that land on my french shores.

 

[Sorry2Baked]

just finished the scenario as the German's. the 1st 2 years are a struggle but if u have civ experience you can beat the allies pretty easily.

I would of liked to see an extended tech tree.

Tanks should stay at 2 movement for sure. 1 is wrong.

everything was very well done it took me about 25 turns to figure it out. when i started fresh it was pretty easy.

lacks unit diversity imo.. as its pretty much arty and infantry the entire game. but hey they get the job done.

All in all great mod deff worth a try for those who love WW mods!
thank you very much for this!

 

[Sorry2Baked]

when will in the trenches be ready? thats my kind of mod!! the real #of units thats amazing!

 

[Tigranes]

Tanks should stay at 2 movement for sure. 1 is wrong.

This was intended to be a simple 72 turn mod (originally 64 turns) so tech tree is good as is.

Also why is 2 MP for Tanks good, can you tell me? In real WW1 60% deaths was artillery. In this mod artillery does not even kill, no need for trenches really, Tanks become available in mid game and act as if they are ww2 panzers. Main idea of Tank in ww2 is that it will be different category unit, so Machine Gun bonus against Infantry will play no role, and trenches maned by machine gunner will be overruned. But any horse in 1917 would go faster than early Tank, thats for sure.

 

[Sorry2Baked]

This was intended to be a simple 72 turn mod (originally 64 turns) so tech tree is good as is.

Also why is 2 MP for Tanks good, can you tell me? In real WW1 60% deaths was artillery. In this mod artillery does not even kill, no need for trenches really, Tanks become available in mid game and act as if they are ww2 panzers. Main idea of Tank in ww2 is that it will be different category unit, so Machine Gun bonus against Infantry will play no role, and trenches maned by machine gunner will be overruned. But any horse in 1917 would go faster than early Tank, thats for sure.

a tank is a mobile unit meant for attacking they have no defense bonus so if u dont use them right they can get wiped out rather easily.

Perhaps give the cavalry unit a bonus vs tanks? granted these r 1st generation tanks and were pretty weak.

i agree arty doesnt kill most units but without it good luck taking cities. i always stacked 3-4 to take a city and they would reduce the enemy forces to the point where my infantry would just march in.

for a 72 turn scenario its pretty good was alot of fun.

here is a save of the final turn. in the last 10 turns i just rushed out frantically to take as many italian and russian cities i could lol

 

[Tigranes]

Even in ww1 horse will not have a chance to kill tank. they would just get stuck in the mud, lol.
Plus no one ever sends tanks alone, they help Infantry to progress forward

 

[Sorry2Baked]

Even in ww1 horse will not have a chance to kill tank. they would just get stuck in the mud, lol.
Plus no one ever sends tanks alone, they help Infantry to progress forward

yea i know. but u are saying the tanks are OP.

i guess u can change the mp to 1 it wont change very much considering they follow infantry like u said

 

[isenchine]

Tigranes, could you try the modifications I gave to 2 artilleries?

a) added iAirRange=1, iAirCombat=iCombat, iAirCombatLimit=iCombatLimit, iEvasionProbability = 50, UNITAI_COUNTER, all for ranged bombardment

b) added UnitCombatTarget = UNITCOMBAT_SIEGE (counter-unit)

Tell me about statistics (iAirCombat, iAirCombatLimit, iEvasionProbability)

This is a bit experimental for me...

Edit/P.S.: you can use a saved game